Grouchy Spike Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 The Texans host their first GAMM side match during the BAMM side match after the cowboy main match weather permitting. Cast bullets only. See the WB Wire for a recommended recipe. Targets from 55 yds to 130 yds. Who plans to unlimber their Garand for this gas challenge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 A good posse friend of mine will be there for both. Family matters puts me here but looking forward to thebreport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 What's the date cutoff for a GAM rifle? WWII? Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 1 hour ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said: What's the date cutoff for a GAM rifle? WWII? Korea? I'd bet any Garand you show up with, as long as not modified externally, will be allowed. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Well yeah... I was assuming GAM stood for Gas Action Military, not GArand Military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Clem Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 Grand Action Military Match.........................M1 Garand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Garrison Joe nailed it. Any M1 Garand, original externally. Just like it was issued to the soldiers. Cast bullets only, velocity according to Dusty Boddams is about 1850 fps to reliably cycle the action. You might be up or down a few fps depending on your particular rifle. That velocity makes the Garand pat your shoulder instead of kicking it, a real surprise when I fired Dusty's rifle and compared it to the mule I had in hand at Ft Sill in 1962. BTW, the CMP service grade lists for $750 and the field grade for $650. http://thecmp.org/cmp_sales/rifle_sales/m1-garand/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I dropped my order in the mail yesterday for a Service grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Outstanding JBB! Y'all gonna shoot some GAMM up yonder? Are y'all doing any BAMM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 BAMM has been only a very lightly attended, informal/impromptu side match so far. Never seen GAMM yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted February 11, 2019 Author Share Posted February 11, 2019 Well, with a Garand in hand, you'll be the leader and the pioneer GAMM shooter! Invite others to try it. Give'em a sample and hook'em. That's what Dusty Boddams has been doing successfully with BAMM and now GAMM. He has BAMM disciples in Oklahoma, and Central and Southeast Texas. He did the same with GAMM, and I estimate that the first local GAMM will see five shooters and grow from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Yeah I thought gas operated then about a minute later realized it was Garand. Just started playing withna BAMM. So far no luck getting interest in POP POcket Pistol side match WB style. 1903 and similar pocket pistols. Wanted another reason to drag the Colt pocket hammerless out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Too many guns that could be used in various club-level side matches, but not nearly enough people to make it interesting. Our unofficial BAMM match at the State championship draws maybe 2 - 4 people. I'd like to try Zoot Shooting too, but there's NOBODY around here who has the guns and would be interested. The upside is I'd place 1st in every match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 JB, give BAMM a little time. Bring ammo,good targets and let anyone try it that has a remote interest. Be sure and explain how easy it is to load for these rifles and if they don’t reload offer up HooDoo Brown who loads custom ammo for BAMM and GAMM. Lots of folks are interested when they get that rifle in hand. GAMM is just a club level match and it’s been really well recieved so far and works real well with BAMM. Several folks around here have had garands for years but didn’t have any competitive arenas to shoot them in except for cmp and they desired something else so we are all having a large time! Matter of fact at our next WB fourth weekend Saturday we will have WB with a Doughboy class and after lunch a BAMM and GAMM . If you’re ever this way drop in and shoot with us. Dusty Boddams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said: Too many guns that could be used in various club-level side matches, but not nearly enough people to make it interesting. Our unofficial BAMM match at the State championship draws maybe 2 - 4 people. I'd like to try Zoot Shooting too, but there's NOBODY around here who has the guns and would be interested. The upside is I'd place 1st in every match! Got a Thompson. Every now and then take it to local WB match ( they allow open) shooting same bullets as 1911. When I don't bring most everyone asks where is the Thompson. Did a local 3 gun with my WB guns except the Thompson for the lever. Some of the guys with Are and scopes missed the targets, got each and even managed a couple of bonus as well. Pistol all went down easy peasy and the entire course I am thinking Thank You Wild Bunch. Even took the 1903 hammerhead once to open WB but the sights are not real amenable, but it was fun to try anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 It's difficult to actually determine what guns are used for Zoot Shooting, but the Thompson and M1 Carbine seem to be OK for semi-auto rifles (as well as pistol cal lever rifles), a traditional 1911 for a pistol, and an 1897 for a shotgun. I don't see that revolvers are legal, but I don't see that they aren't either, so... Me and Tommy having some fun in the front yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Revolvers are legal in ZootShooters. Here is a forum for the zoot shooters if you want to learn more: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/board,108.0.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Things I have used in Zoot Shooting... RIfles... M1927 Thompson M1A1 Thompson PPSH-41 Broomhandle Mauser with Shoulder Stock Pistols: M1911 M1911A1 Tokarev M1917 Colt M1917 S&W Webley Mark VI Broomhandle Mauser Luger Colt Police Special with 2" bbl Shotgun: Browning Auto 5 Remington 870. (Not normally legal, but the place where I shoot it has a steel shot restriction, so they allow any pump action shotgun.) That doesn't even scratch the surface of things I've seen other people using at a Zoot Shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 I took this off the rules on the zoot site: Any .30 caliber or larger caliber pistol, .30 caliber or larger pistol cartridge firing rifle (or straight cased rifle rounds; eg, .351 Winchester) and 20 gauge or larger shotgun produced before 1949 or replica of such may be used as main match guns in AZSA matches. So from that a 1907 Winchester self loader is legal but a Remington model 8 would not (straight wall vs bottle necked). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goatneck Clem Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Keep in mind the GAMM is only a side match off shoot from BAMM. It is not an official Wild Bunch Side Match. It was started in Cleburne, Texas as a side match in with our monthly WB & BAMM side matches. There are several local clubs that do shoot these side matches. We shoot the same distances as BAMM. It is shot with 8 rounds. The local clubs decide what course of fire. No set rules as Garrison Joe said earlier in a post it has to look like an M1 with Battle Sights. It is shoot off hand or from a rest Match Directors choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 3 hours ago, LostVaquero said: I took this off the rules on the zoot site: Any .30 caliber or larger caliber pistol, .30 caliber or larger pistol cartridge firing rifle (or straight cased rifle rounds; eg, .351 Winchester) and 20 gauge or larger shotgun produced before 1949 or replica of such may be used as main match guns in AZSA matches. So from that a 1907 Winchester self loader is legal but a Remington model 8 would not (straight wall vs bottle necked). I don't know much about the Model 8 or the cartridge it fires, but things like .32-20 and .44-40, which are bottlenecked, are okay for Zoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 Model 8/81 Remington’s are powerful rifles they are about like a 30-30, 25-35 and the 35 rem was considered a bear gun. the 351 Winchester won’t operate unless ran nearly at factory specs. At least that’s the way mine is. The 351 could be thought of as an obsolete 357 maximum and in fact cases for the 351 can be built from 357 maximum. Better carbines for close in zoot shoot work would be the soumi in 9mm or the Thompson or of course our pistol cal lever actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 28 minutes ago, Dusty Boddems said: Model 8/81 Remington’s are powerful rifles they are about like a 30-30, 25-35 and the 35 rem was considered a bear gun. the 351 Winchester won’t operate unless ran nearly at factory specs. At least that’s the way mine is. The 351 could be thought of as an obsolete 357 maximum and in fact cases for the 351 can be built from 357 maximum. Better carbines for close in zoot shoot work would be the soumi in 9mm or the Thompson or of course our pistol cal lever actions. All of those would make good Zoot guns. In fact, I've seen them all used. And for what it's worth, there is a fellow who shoots a 1907 in .351 at Zoot locally. I won't say who he is, but he's a great guy to shoot with. Not too long ago, I picked up a 1905 Winchester in .32 Winchester Self Loading. Basically the same gun as the 1907, just in a different caliber. A fun shooter, but I only have a 5 shot mag for it. The rounds is for all intents and purposes a rimmed version of .30 Carbine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 11, 2019 Share Posted February 11, 2019 H.k. Did your friend reduce the weight of the inertia block or springs? Or is he running around 1700-1800 fps? I think the 32wsl was the idea for 30 carbine,can’t remember where I read that now. I’ve got a 35wsl but never played with it. When zoot shoot first came on the horizon I bought 3 ten round factory mags for my 351 wsl and a pair of nickel colt 1917’s. at this same time wild bunch came on the scene and I never shot a zoot shoot. Around here zoot shoots just didn’t get any traction. Wild Bunch has taken off nicely in Texas and Oklahoma along with other adjoining states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 He did do something to his gun to allow it to function with milder rounds than factory spec. But I do not know what. Take a .32-20 and straighten it, and you have .32 WSL. Take off the rim, and you have .30 Carbine. That's a little over simplified, but essentially the general idea. You can make .32 WSL out of .32-20 brass. I have some. Also have a half box of real .32 WSL. Hope to find more someday. There is only one club that I know of that does Zoot in New England. It has a very small group of participants. Two years ago they switched from Saturday to Sunday, and I stopped going. Last year they switched back to Saturday, but personal circumstances prevented me from getting to any matches. Attendance was never more than half a dozen, but always a lot of fun. Three years ago, I actually went out to the national championship match in Colorado, and I did okay. I even won one of the side matches. (Pocket auto pistol) It is unfortunate that Zoot has not caught on more. It's a lot of fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 I agree Zoot did not seem to catch on. When some clubs started Wild Bunch it had a bunch of similar guns allowed until the official rules came in. Well it is what it is. Fun sometimes when an open category is offered. Then you sometimes see something different. Besides the Thompson, I have been known to take a Navy Luger (all lead bullets of course) and the aforementioned 1903 pocket hammerless. Who knows maybe like BAMM became official maybe something might come along for some of those other fun guns. It is just a matter of gauging interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brimstone Bill Willson Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 H.K. I have a 1905 Winchester in 32SL as well, it is a fun gun to shoot when I have ammo for it. I would love to shoot a real Zoot Shooter match, but there are no matches in my neck of the woods. Our Match Director let me start a 20's/30's category that I have shot during our cowboy match, that was fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Grouchy Spike, so tell us are you shooting one stage of this or a couple? Will you have a load facilitator for those newbies or a demonstration of how to load? What about your targets ? Are you shooting this at the same location as where the state BAMM was held? If so that’s a perfect location. I predict a big success! Dusty Boddams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 This sounds really cool! Is GAMM/BAMM a rifle only side match or do you use shotguns and pistols too? I picked up a refurbished Garand through the CMP a few years ago would it be legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 hours ago, July Smith said: This sounds really cool! Is GAMM/BAMM a rifle only side match or do you use shotguns and pistols too? I picked up a refurbished Garand through the CMP a few years ago would it be legal? I know that there was a Doughboy match. Shotgun 97 or 12, 1911, but used a BAMM rifle instead of lever with further out targets. I suppose you could do something similar but use a Garand. Doughboy though might not be good term, GI or Grunt maybe? Not familiar enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 hours ago, Brimstone Bill Willson said: H.K. I have a 1905 Winchester in 32SL as well, it is a fun gun to shoot when I have ammo for it. I would love to shoot a real Zoot Shooter match, but there are no matches in my neck of the woods. Our Match Director let me start a 20's/30's category that I have shot during our cowboy match, that was fun! If you compare .32-20 to .32WSL, you will see that the extractor groove on the SL round is more similar to the .30 Carbine than to the .32-20. This is true on "real" .32WSL brass and the stuff you can get from places like Old West Scrounger that uses .32-20 brass to make new ammo. That being said, just for kicks, I ran some unmodified .32-20 through the .32 WSL dies to see how it would work. It did. Take it with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Boddems Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 On 2/10/2019 at 9:01 AM, Grouchy Spike said: The Texans host their first GAMM side match during the BAMM side match after the cowboy main match weather permitting. Cast bullets only. See the WB Wire for a recommended recipe. Targets from 55 yds to 130 yds. Who plans to unlimber their Garand for this gas challenge? GS, so cowboy match that morning then I guess lunch so right after lunch is BAMM and GAMM? So around 12:00 12:30 starts the big show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Dusty Boddems said: Grouchy Spike, so tell us are you shooting one stage of this or a couple? Will you have a load facilitator for those newbies or a demonstration of how to load? What about your targets ? Are you shooting this at the same location as where the state BAMM was held? If so that’s a perfect location. I predict a big success! Dusty Boddams DB for the first GAMM shootout we are limited to 8-rounds per shooter for the match. GAMM/BAMM is hosted concurrently on the same stage used at last year's state match, The Oriental, because it has the most open downrange terrain. The range closes at 3 P.M. so there is not a lot of time available for shooting after Cowboy Main Match and lunch. I expect that the starting position will be seated, then load the M1, put the safety on. ATB move safety to off and commence firing at targets from 75 to 130 yards. If time is available after the two matches, newbies would be welcome to give either a try, and there would be a loading facilitator to help. This GAMM is an exciting inaugural event, maybe even more than BAMM You can expect some feedback after the match! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouchy Spike Posted February 13, 2019 Author Share Posted February 13, 2019 12 hours ago, July Smith said: This sounds really cool! Is GAMM/BAMM a rifle only side match or do you use shotguns and pistols too? I picked up a refurbished Garand through the CMP a few years ago would it be legal? July, bring it on! Perfect source for the Garand! Cast bullets only. The load used by Dusty Boddams and several of the GAMMers is 35.8 gr IMR 4895 and a 170 gr bullet for a velocity of about 1825-1850 fps, or just enough to reliably cycle the action on the rifle. Another GAMMer added a half-grain for reliable operation of his rifle. Garrison Joe provided a link to lubrication of the Garand for smoothest operation: https://www.sassnet.com/wildbunch/forum/index.php?topic=2594.msg17986#new Recalling my experience with the Garand in 1962, we were following that lube regimen. Work out your load and sight in before the match, as we will be tight on time. You'll need an enbloc clip, available from MidwayUSA or the CMP store. Midway also has a 5-round and a 2-round enbloc available. The cast bullets are available from Norm Purcella 575 703 0391. I sent USPS money orders, don't think he was set up for credit cards, that may have changed. Rifles only in this match due to time constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 13 hours ago, Grouchy Spike said: Midway also has a 5-round and a 2-round enbloc available. 1 Are the 5-rd clips required? (I'm up to my ears in 8-rd clips already.) Gas checks and paper patching allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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