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Texas Jack Daniels

Would you shoot this match?

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For a really big match, such as EOT, I'd be ok with that. Or this mega-match TJD is talking about.

I'm sure it will bring lotsa folks if it happens.

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In response to the question about lots of big prizes.  I haven't seen big prizes as shooting awards myself.  But I have seen lots of high value raffle prizes, door prizes, and auction items over the years. 

 

I have seen as raffle items; a colt pistol at a raffle at EoT (with red stag grips and gold inlay), and a Sharps heavy barrel  buffalo rifle, a gold engraved marlin, mernickle rigs, .....  

 

I agree with Rainmaker that Winter Range has beautiful trophy's and a raffle everyone can enter and over the years great door prizes (range bag, gun cases,...).

 

Other shoots I have been to have had firearms as door and raffle prizes and as a shooter prize where everyone is automatically in the raffle (aka a shooter prize). 

 

What I have seen over the years is fewer raffle items, fewer door prizes and fewer shooter prizes.  Without sponsors (Colt, Marlin, Ruger, Cimarron, Taylor's, Bond) and/or large entry fees and/or a lot of shooters the funds for prizes goes down.  Not all sponsors can afford to donate outright, some offer a dealer or wholesale price. 

 

Thanks again and please keep the constructive feedback coming in.  It really help the focus to make this a success.  

 

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Prizes:

Cowboy guns

Quality rigs

Quality reloaders, preferably Dillon

Reloading supplies

Cowboy boots/hats/clothes

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

  Good food 

 Good  coffee 

 

 and I will shoot anywhere  :D :FlagAm: 

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I'd get a nurse to stay with SWMBO and get there.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/31/2019 at 5:55 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've been thinking about the big money thing... Truly pondering how I would behave...

 

The sad truth is that I would grind up anyone in a chipper and feed them to my young just to win a $500 gun.

 

Kinda pains me to admit this...

Me too.  That's what worries me. 

 

 But I also realize that I'm not going to win any big prizes if all the legendary shooters are there.  Only they will enjoy that level of competition.  The rest are just there to pay their shooter fees toward the  prizes, compete as we can, and watch the show.  Maybe the show would be worth it all.   But make no mistake about it.  The promoter takes home the grand $$ prize, just like in boxing, bass fishing, or any other individual competition sport.  

 

All the competitive intensity isn't going to foster the kind of fun and mutual helpfulness that we've enjoyed so much.

(and who among us really can't afford to just go out and buy the new gun? and for way less than we would spend to enter, travel, etc) 

Just some thoughts.  

I'd probably try to go, but without any great expectations.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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8 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Me too.  That's what worries me. 

 

 But I also realize that I'm not going to win any big prizes if all the legendary shooters are there.  Only they will enjoy that level of competition.  The rest are just there to pay their shooter fees toward the  prizes, compete as we can, and watch the show.  Maybe the show would be worth it all.   But make no mistake about it.  The promoter takes home the grand $$ prize, just like in boxing, bass fishing, or any other individual competition sport.  

 

All the competitive intensity isn't going to foster the kind of fun and mutual helpfulness that we've enjoyed so much.

(and who among us really can't afford to just go out and buy the new gun? and for way less than we would spend to enter, travel, etc) 

Just some thoughts.  

I'd probably try to go, but without any great expectations.  

You do know that my post was done with an extreme level of sarcasm don't you?

 

Phantom

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Speaking purely from other shooting disciplines
The concern about prizes and how it can destroy a sport. Well it's not the prizes, It's the new people the prizes attract and how it can change the long time shooters as well. If you guys want a quick lesson in what a prize table does to people. Go visit Snipers hide and search for prize table problem, fights, cheats, etc. But I will say it's not the prizes that are the problem It's the people. I don't see there being a problem with guys that have been doing this for a while. They wouldn't be doing this if they were not having fun. Casing a prize table sucks. But there is a whole new generation of pompous entitled little snots running around. It's one reason I refuse to shoot a specific discipline that I'm actually kinda good at. I'm not a fan of the cut throat crap that goes on. People screwing with your gear to cost you time or the stage. (Yes I mean people will physically touch your gear to purposely screw you over)  Underhanded people will always be underhanded nothing you can do about that. If the organization is a good one the underhanded are weeded out, publicly identified and shamed. It's up to the integrity of the organization to hold true to the SOG
I especially liked the rule in the handbook that stated "No sponsor names on clothing" that made me feel better about this. It's all about SOG and being around good people. and yes I still need to actually show the hell up to a match. May is coming though. 
I'll give you this you can't keep the sport going or grow it without attracting new shooters. How you attract new shooters is the key. And I don't have an answer for that. 

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13 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Speaking purely from other shooting disciplines
The concern about prizes and how it can destroy a sport. Well it's not the prizes, It's the new people the prizes attract and how it can change the long time shooters as well. If you guys want a quick lesson in what a prize table does to people. Go visit Snipers hide and search for prize table problem, fights, cheats, etc. But I will say it's not the prizes that are the problem It's the people. I don't see there being a problem with guys that have been doing this for a while. They wouldn't be doing this if they were not having fun. Casing a prize table sucks. But there is a whole new generation of pompous entitled little snots running around. It's one reason I refuse to shoot a specific discipline that I'm actually kinda good at. I'm not a fan of the cut throat crap that goes on. People screwing with your gear to cost you time or the stage. (Yes I mean people will physically touch your gear to purposely screw you over)  Underhanded people will always be underhanded nothing you can do about that. If the organization is a good one the underhanded are weeded out, publicly identified and shamed. It's up to the integrity of the organization to hold true to the SOG
I especially liked the rule in the handbook that stated "No sponsor names on clothing" that made me feel better about this. It's all about SOG and being around good people. and yes I still need to actually show the hell up to a match. May is coming though. 
I'll give you this you can't keep the sport going or grow it without attracting new shooters. How you attract new shooters is the key. And I don't have an answer for that. 

Don't go blaming recent/current generations. They are no better or worse then previous generations. After all, who do you think raised them?

 

We had big prize tables in the "old" days of SASS. We would still have them if the Sponsors found that donating prizes made financial sense.

 

Phantom

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Maybe it's just the shooting disciplines I choose to shoot but the PRS is a young mans game i.e. <35 while there are exceptions and some older more seasoned people competing and they are full of disrespectful little snots. And Yes that is a direct measure of the parents I agree

So let me ask you this. In these old days you speak of Was there any cut throat competition? unsportsmanlike conduct. And I don't mean isolated incidences. I mean like running rampant through the sport?   PRS right now is trying to recover and the development of the NRL is part of that. 
PRS being Precision rifle series and NRL being National Rifle League If you are not familiar. 
there were some very unsavory individuals trying to make a mane for themselves anyway they could. They were also the first ones to be heard if they felt they were not getting the attention they felt they deserved. 

Personally I'm not a fan of prize tables ( I never win anyway :D)
I can see the need for them and I just hope it doesn't bring out the worst in people. 

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1 hour ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Maybe it's just the shooting disciplines I choose to shoot but the PRS is a young mans game i.e. <35 while there are exceptions and some older more seasoned people competing and they are full of disrespectful little snots. And Yes that is a direct measure of the parents I agree

So let me ask you this. In these old days you speak of Was there any cut throat competition? unsportsmanlike conduct. And I don't mean isolated incidences. I mean like running rampant through the sport?   PRS right now is trying to recover and the development of the NRL is part of that. 
PRS being Precision rifle series and NRL being National Rifle League If you are not familiar. 
there were some very unsavory individuals trying to make a mane for themselves anyway they could. They were also the first ones to be heard if they felt they were not getting the attention they felt they deserved. 

Personally I'm not a fan of prize tables ( I never win anyway :D)
I can see the need for them and I just hope it doesn't bring out the worst in people. 

No.

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Hi all,

 

Please remember this thread is all about gathering information.  

 

Currently: (Subject to change based on feedback) 

 

As far as big prizes are concerned.....

 

Plan is to have great raffle items 

     Yule Lose Gun cart 

     Leather

     Firearms (more than 1) 

 

Plan is to have great door prizes (everybody gets one) 

     Range Bag 

     Gun carrying cases 

     Nifty break down cleaning and squib rods

     Screwdriver sets 

     etc.  Still gathering great ideas 

 

Plan is to have great awards (depending on funding) 

     Good Buckles for top 10 

     Great buckles for top 3 

     Awesome buckle for 1st. 

     And depending on funding laser engraved rifle, pistol, shotgun, derringer, Damascus bowie knife, etc) to go with the buckle. 

     No, I am not going to really buy the winners jeeps.  

 

Plan is to have no overall winner.

     60 year olds don't need to compete with 30 year olds, Duh. 

    

Plan is to limit categories (still working on this A LOT) 

     Male - Female

     Ultimate (must shoot gunfighter, duelist, and traditional),      Traditional,      Duelist,      Gunfighter 

     Black Powder and Smokeless 

     We will have fewer age brackets depending on who signs up.    

          (Something like; 0 to 15, 16 to 49, 50 to 65, 65+....) 

     No B-Western or Classic Cowboy.  Everybody has to dress to meet those category requirements. 

 

Plan is to incorporate derringer, pocket pistol, big bore, into the match itself.

 

Plan is everybody gets to shoot every day for a solid week. 

     No Wild Bunch, Costume contests, Side matches, banquets

 

Plan is for everyone to have a GREAT TIME !!!! 

     Fellowship and Shooting to preserve to culture and history of the American Old West. 

 

Please keep those comments coming.  I am reading all of them.  

 

Sincerely,

     TJD 

 

I really am working on a information web site.....  It is slow as I still have a real job...

 

     

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The value of the prizes is not the problem, it's how they're distributed. NICE buckles and plaques are great for winners, but if you have big $$ prizes, they should be door prizes or raffles. If Joe Shooter thinks he has a chance at a big prize, he will happily travel and attend the match. If the big items are for winners only, most average shooters will not be as interested. My opinion.

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The plan is for nice prizes at every level. 

 

Nice door prizes (everyone gets whatever it is, range bag, gun case, ....) 

Great raffle items (everyone who enters gets whatever it is gun cart, reloading press, firearms,....) 

Nice winner prizes (1st, 2nd, 3rd. Guns, Knives, leather, etc., (not Jeeps)) 

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3 hours ago, Texas Jack Daniels said:

Hi all,

 

Please remember this thread is all about gathering information.  

 

Currently: (Subject to change based on feedback) 

 

As far as big prizes are concerned.....

 

Plan is to have great raffle items 

     Yule Lose Gun cart 

     Leather

     Firearms (more than 1) 

 

Plan is to have great door prizes (everybody gets one) 

     Range Bag 

     Gun carrying cases 

     Nifty break down cleaning and squib rods

     Screwdriver sets 

     etc.  Still gathering great ideas 

 

Plan is to have great awards (depending on funding) 

     Good Buckles for top 10 

     Great buckles for top 3 

     Awesome buckle for 1st. 

     And depending on funding laser engraved rifle, pistol, shotgun, derringer, Damascus bowie knife, etc) to go with the buckle. 

     No, I am not going to really buy the winners jeeps.  

 

Plan is to have no overall winner.

     60 year olds don't need to compete with 30 year olds, Duh. 

    

Plan is to limit categories (still working on this A LOT) 

     Male - Female

     Ultimate (must shoot gunfighter, duelist, and traditional),      Traditional,      Duelist,      Gunfighter 

     Black Powder and Smokeless 

     We will have fewer age brackets depending on who signs up.    

          (Something like; 0 to 15, 16 to 49, 50 to 65, 65+....) 

     No B-Western or Classic Cowboy.  Everybody has to dress to meet those category requirements. 

 

Plan is to incorporate derringer, pocket pistol, big bore, into the match itself.

 

Plan is everybody gets to shoot every day for a solid week. 

     No Wild Bunch, Costume contests, Side matches, banquets

 

Plan is for everyone to have a GREAT TIME !!!! 

     Fellowship and Shooting to preserve to culture and history of the American Old West. 

 

Please keep those comments coming.  I am reading all of them.  

 

Sincerely,

     TJD 

 

I really am working on a information web site.....  It is slow as I still have a real job...

 

     

I’m certainly not telling you how to run this, but I’ll share my experience offering All Around Cowboy (very similar to your ultimate) at my old club. We had a lot of interest, but shooting black was a bridge to far for many shooters. I had a friend load it for me but didn’t like the cleanup or trying to keep them running so that was that. Long story short I think the BP requirement may cost you a fair number of shooters who would otherwise be interested.

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There is no black powder requirement.  There are 2 categories.  "Black Powder"  and "Smokeless".  Sorry for any confusion.

 

Black powder includes substitutes.

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SASS support update

 

The Wild Bunch has met and discussed this match.  They have come back and said:

     The Board discussed your proposal at great length at our last board meeting. 

     To summarize, we feel this isn’t necessarily a “new” concept. Just the same, SASS is not interested in playing a role in this endeavor.

     Equally, we will not discourage or denounce the match concept should you bring your idea to fruition. 

     We wish you the best.

I am very happy with their response.  It will not be a "sanctioned match" as in a SASS state, regional, national, or world championship.  That was understood.  

 

Hopefully we can figure out how to pull this off together.  

 

Sincerely,

TJD 

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37 minutes ago, Texas Jack Daniels said:

There is no black powder requirement.  There are 2 categories.  "Black Powder"  and "Smokeless".  Sorry for any confusion.

 

Black powder includes substitutes.

My mistake! Thanks for the clarification TJD!

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Posted (edited)
On 4/15/2019 at 7:53 AM, Texas Jack Daniels said:

No, I am not going to really buy the winners jeeps.  

That "jeep" statement in your original post was what triggered me to initiate this dialog about effects of huge shooter prises.  What you describe here and now is pretty much what I would prefer to see.   It will be a great match if you can do that.  

 

Please realize that my experience came from being a State Fish and Wildlife official observer at bass fishing tournaments, years back.  It all started out as a series of fun tournaments in which everyone was there to be proclaimed the World's Best Fisherman.  But when the national tournament  sponsoring organizations began to offer boats, pickup trucks and extreme ($50,000 or more) cash prizes,  the entire spectrum changed.  Professional fishermen quickly appeared on the scene--guys seeking to make their entire subsistence off of tournament competition.  The sport quickly eroded.  Fishermen started "pre-fishing" the lakes for more than familiarity and practice.  They began pre-fishing very intensively, to catch and move/release large numbers of fish into particular coves, with the intent to return to those sites during the tournament.  Then some began caging fish for retrieval during tournaments.  These were just two of the types of cheating which became commonplace.  The honor system went to Hell, as did intended oversight by partners in the boat, who sometimes ended up splitting prize money's gained through cheating, or in one case, ultimately ended up in a person being prosecuted for blackmailing a partner, in the aftermath of cheating.   

Then people discovered that they could also make big monetary winnings by side-betting on who would win the competitions.  It got way out of hand.  In 1992, I was an invited speaker at a local bass club meeting where almost the entire club membership (of about 70 persons) was arrested in a police  raid, for participation in unlawful gambling.  The secret Calcutta jackpot that night had $44,000 in it.   

 

I think the CAS shooters are well above those kinds of behaviors, but when the big prizes and money's begin to be offered, it attracts an entirely new group of people who are focused on winning money, and not on building or enjoying enduring friendships.  

 

So hopefully that gives you a better understanding of where I was coming from in my initial posted cautionary responses.  The money literally destroyed the sport of bass fishing tournaments, at least for a time. I need to say that I've been an outsider to tournament bass fishing now for about 25 years, so I don't know if those old problems still exist or not.  I hope they've gotten themselves above all of that by now.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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Let us know what help you need, TJD.

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So y'all understand that the size of prizes is dictated by the size of the market???

 

Single action shooting matches ain't a big market... Don't expect boats and trucks...40k in prize money... Any time soon ... Or ever...

 

:lol:

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