WTC - What are my options with the pistols?

[Max Payne]

This actually happened to me (fortunately during a warmup stage) at EOT 2 or 3 years back. I was focused on covering ground & had a brain fart with the pistols. Without too much detail, fired 2 rounds & took a step with both feet. Hammer was down on spent round & not cocked until the new location of both my feet. Is it a SDQ already with no options? Or, since I haven't fired it yet at the new location, could I move the cylinder so the hammer is on either open or spent round, take the 3 (or 8?) misses & move onto the other guns? And, lastly, could I fix it as just described & shoot the 2nd pistol, then moving on to the other guns?

[Grey Beard]

Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Revolvers
Revolvers are considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while holstering, or while moving
through a stage) and SAFE to leave the shooter’s hand in the following conditions ONLY:
- Hammer fully down on an empty chamber.
- Hammer fully down on an expended round. A revolver may not be originally
staged in this condition, but may be restaged in this condition.
- GUNFIGHTER shooting style considerations: When shooting Gunfighter style, a
gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another sequence.
(See Gunfighter Rules).

 

Shooters Handbook page 15

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Hammer is down on empty rounds? How is that a SDQ? As a gunfighter, I move with hammer down on spent rounds all the time when there are stages with split pistol strings

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Yes sir, depending on what you shot with the two rounds and if it was out of stage order, maybe a P, but you're legal to move with a pistol hammer down on expended round.

[Max Payne]

So, theoretically, unless the stage instructions said I had to shoot the pistols from the staged location, I could shoot 1, take 2 steps, shoot 2nd, take 2 steps, shoot 3rd, & so on, as long as I don't cock the pistol before each time my feet are planted? Is this correct?

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

6 minutes ago, Max Payne said:

So, theoretically, unless the stage instructions said I had to shoot the pistols from the staged location, I could shoot 1, take 2 steps, shoot 2nd, take 2 steps, shoot 3rd, & so on, as long as I don't cock the pistol before each time my feet are planted? Is this correct?

If the stage instructions allow for that kind of movement in a large shooting box, yes.  I don't know of many stage writers who will write this into the stage since it is likely someone will cock their hammer on the move and get a SDQ.

 

There are times when you may cock your pistol in the wrong location.  Shoot the round and move to the correct location with the hammer down on an empty and continue.  You get a "P" but not a stage DQ.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

What he said.

[Laramie]

What they said. 

[Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667]

No call.

 

With the possible caveat that you cannot “shoot on the move” by taking only one step with a cocked firearm.  What you described, though, was not shooting on the move.

[Captain Clark]

1 hour ago, Max Payne said:

 Hammer was down on spent round & not cocked until the new location of both my feet. Is it a SDQ already with no options? Or, since I haven't fired it yet at the new location, could I move the cylinder so the hammer is on either open or spent round, take the 3 (or 8?) And, lastly, could I fix it as just described & shoot the 2nd pistol, then moving on to the other guns?

The pistol WAS down on a spent round until you recocked after the second shot. If the pistol was cocked after the 2 expended rounds, then the only way that you could "move" the cylinder would be to drop the hammer ... which would avoid the penalty of moving with a cocked pistol with a round under the hammer, but you still cant decock to avoid a penalty once you have started with the pistol.

 

Shooters Handbook....Pg 15

No firearm may be de-cocked on the firing line to avoid a penalty if cocked at the

wrong time, position or location once a round has gone downrange. Once a

revolver is cocked, the round must be expended (shot). However, if a round has

not gone downrange, and under the direction and supervision of the

CRO/TO, the revolver may be decocked. This requires a positive

indication/acknowledgement from the TO for the shooter to do so. (See also

“Double Jeopardy” avoidance in Safety & Handing Conventions – All Firearms)

- When drawing a Revolver from its holster, the revolver may not be cocked until

it is pointed safely downrange (at a 45° angle downrange).

 

 

[Captain Clark]

1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Yes sir, depending on what you shot with the two rounds and if it was out of stage order, maybe a P, but you're legal to move with a pistol hammer down on expended round.

Your statement is true, but the OP description is he recocked after he moved, and then wanted to "move" the cylinder. Not sure how to move the cylinder without decocking a cocked pistol, which is not allowed.

Just how I understand the OP

[Captain Bill Burt]

1 hour ago, Max Payne said:

This actually happened to me (fortunately during a warmup stage) at EOT 2 or 3 years back. I was focused on covering ground & had a brain fart with the pistols. Without too much detail, fired 2 rounds & took a step with both feet. Hammer was down on spent round & not cocked until the new location of both my feet. Is it a SDQ already with no options? Or, since I haven't fired it yet at the new location, could I move the cylinder so the hammer is on either open or spent round, take the 3 (or 8?) misses & move onto the other guns? And, lastly, could I fix it as just described & shoot the 2nd pistol, then moving on to the other guns?

I think we need more information.  If I understand correctly you fired two rounds out of your first pistol and then with the hammer down on a spent round you moved. Once you were at your new location you cocked your pistol.  At that point you haven't broken any rules.  What was the problem then?  Could you not shoot at the appropriate targets from that location?

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

He didn't need to move anything at that point... point and shoot. Legal since he had stopped before cocking the pistol for the third round.

Max, you notice I always give a definite spot to shoot from (exc maybe shotgun), so you would never have to worry about where you're supposed to be.

But ya do gotta do it right.

[Captain Clark]

5 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

He didn't need to move anything at that point... point and shoot. Legal since he had stopped before cocking the pistol for the third round.

Max, you notice I always give a definite spot to shoot from (exc maybe shotgun), so you would never have to worry about where you're supposed to be.

But ya do gotta do it right.

That's true. I was answering the OP question on what would happen if he moved his cylinder

Like Captain Bill Burt said, more info would be handy to help understand the dilemma he was trying to avoid.

[Max Payne]

Thanks for all the great feedback! It was a highly unusual scenario for me, because I couldn't imagine relocating after firing a couple of shots (with the brain fart), & it just felt like I was screwed at the time. It's been 2 or 3 years, but I do remember the TO yelling, "Don't move!", which would indicate that I probably cocked the hammer after relocating. I was reading thru the Shooter's handbook again, as I like to do from time-to-time, & had a flashback of this happening.

[Krazy Kajun]

1 hour ago, Max Payne said:

Thanks for all the great feedback! It was a highly unusual scenario for me, because I couldn't imagine relocating after firing a couple of shots (with the brain fart), & it just felt like I was screwed at the time. It's been 2 or 3 years, but I do remember the TO yelling, "Don't move!", which would indicate that I probably cocked the hammer after relocating. I was reading thru the Shooter's handbook again, as I like to do from time-to-time, & had a flashback of this happening.

You've been shooting with Blackhawk Henry too much....always looking for an angle!

 

Kajun

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

8 hours ago, Max Payne said:

I was reading thru the Shooter's handbook again, as I like to do from time-to-time,

Mr. Max you are my hero. I thought I was the only one that does this kind of foolery. Around here, if I had a dollar for every time I heard that statement, I would have one dollar. Not trying to hijack your post but just responding to your wisdom and since of fair play.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

I think (yes, sometimes I do that) that there was most likely a good amount of "gallery" feedback when this happened and he was getting all kinds of "good" advice from folks that saw he was in a quandary. With the best of intentions, folks sometimes spew forth helping information that is not helpful at all, as it all comes at once while the shooter is panicking after making a deviation from what he knows he should be doing. Sometimes a penalty is warranted, but sometimes a simple course correction is al that is needed. Hammer down, move to where he should be, press on. No need for cylinder turning or anything else.

Sounds simple huh? Funny how it almost never seems that way when its you.

[Flying W Ramrod]

On 2/6/2019 at 9:51 AM, Max Payne said:

So, theoretically, unless the stage instructions said I had to shoot the pistols from the staged location, I could shoot 1, take 2 steps, shoot 2nd, take 2 steps, shoot 3rd, & so on, as long as I don't cock the pistol before each time my feet are planted? Is this correct?

As long as you don't violate this rule, found on page 23 of the shooters handbook.

 

STAGE DISQUALIFICATION PENALTY (SDQ)

- Shooting on the move (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets).