Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Blast Masterson said: Or maybe he was there to just have some fun... He obviously was not trying for an advantage over any other shooter. He made the shotgun safe. This weekend shoot I saw three exception to the rules and stage directions so the shooter could participate in this "Game". If anyone said "No", or pulled out the rule book, I believe they would be run off the range... Ya'll ask how to keep and increase membership. I'd recommend you purists consider those that are not there to beat the clock, or you may find yourselves left picking up your own brass. On to page four! I agree with you to a point. I'm a "purist", but at the same time I try to be a realist too. If it's deemed that the SG rounds were illegally acquired I would probably have told the shooter and waved the penalty. Why? Cold monthly match... No time advantage... Folks having a fun time don't need a wet blanket thrown on them so long as safety was not an issue. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdog Dago Dom Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Ahhhh. The "Simon Says" rule. If "Simon" didn't say it, you don't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Thornton Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Since we are just killing time here, why not a shameless plug for a great shoot? http://www.fortdesmoinesrangers.com/2019-sass-iowa-state-championship.html May 24-26, yes memorial day weekend, is the Iowa State Championship - Shootout at Coyote Gulch. Schedule available on the Link above. 12 unique stages, dry camping available on-site. It's going to be a rowdy good time!! Come check it out! Ok that's enough. To page 4 and beyond!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawdog Dago Dom Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Clay Thornton said: Since we are just killing time here, why not a shameless plug for a great shoot? http://www.fortdesmoinesrangers.com/2019-sass-iowa-state-championship.html May 24-26, yes memorial day weekend, is the Iowa State Championship - Shootout at Coyote Gulch. Schedule available on the Link above. 12 unique stages, dry camping available on-site. It's going to be a rowdy good time!! Come check it out! Ok that's enough. To page 4 and beyond!!!! Is there a special "gamer" category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 16 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said: Furthermore, from p. 28, SHB, "Dropped rounds or rounds safely placed onto a prop from their original loading area may be recovered and used. In any case of recovery of a dropped or safely placed round must be performed carefully as to not create a loss of muzzle control." I say the ammo was carried to the line legally and safely placed onto a prop. Original loading area = coat pocket = legally carried to the line and legal for reuse. Coat placed on the prop = safely placed onto a prop = legal for reuse. Unless muzzle control was not maintained = no call. If this is not correct, consider me confused. Any other interpretation is, IMO, overly harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Beard Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I agree with you to a point. I'm a "purist", but at the same time I try to be a realist too. If it's deemed that the SG rounds were illegally acquired I would probably have told the shooter and waved the penalty. Why? Cold monthly match... No time advantage... Folks having a fun time don't need a wet blanket thrown on them so long as safety was not an issue. Phantom +1 to Phantom! Just because we need to insure that shooters know and follow the rules doesn't mean that common sense can't apply in extenuating circumstances. And one post closer to page 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 To avoid scrutiny of the "Hard a**'s" on this thread, the shooter could have put his coat back on prior to retrieving shotgun shells needed to complete the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said: To avoid scrutiny of the "Hard a**'s" on this thread, the shooter could have put his coat back on prior to retrieving shotgun shells needed to complete the stage. Yes, but how would we ever get to page 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Put the coat back on, buttoned it appropriately, THEN retrieved the shells. We all know this action by this shooter was just done to run up a 4-page thread. Whatcha think PWB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast Masterson Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 12 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I agree with you to a point. I'm a "purist", but at the same time I try to be a realist too. If it's deemed that the SG rounds were illegally acquired I would probably have told the shooter and waved the penalty. Why? Cold monthly match... No time advantage... Folks having a fun time don't need a wet blanket thrown on them so long as safety was not an issue. Phantom I agree with your agree. But for those who are just having fun (after they ran out of shells and will loose any possibility of maintaining their match standing by taking 20 seconds to acquire more ammo to kill the last bad guy standing), they will likely walk off the stage with a smile no matter what time penalty you impose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Blast Masterson said: I agree with your agree. But for those who are just having fun (after they ran out of shells and will loose any possibility of maintaining their match standing by taking 20 seconds to acquire more ammo to kill the last bad guy standing), they will likely walk off the stage with a smile no matter what time penalty you impose... With EVERYONE else smiling as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast Masterson Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 We holler and coax them on!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 I sure hated to get in on this discussion but here goes. Are we talking about the validity or the morality of the call. There are clubs that do not follow sass rules explicitly. Technically, the stage instructions didn't say to stage the ammo. The rule is pretty specific as to how you can bring ammo to the line. When the coat came off and he retrieved the ammo it had then been staged. I would also say that if you take your shotgun belt off and sit it on the table to go back to and draw shells, you are staging the ammo. If he had clarified and asked if he could do it beforehand, then I'd say he had instructions to do so. That last part is just my opinion based on why be a butthead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said: I sure hated to get in on this discussion but here goes. Are we talking about the validity or the morality of the call. There are clubs that do not follow sass rules explicitly. Technically, the stage instructions didn't say to stage the ammo. The rule is pretty specific as to how you can bring ammo to the line. When the coat came off and he retrieved the ammo it had then been staged. I would also say that if you take your shotgun belt off and sit it on the table to go back to and draw shells, you are staging the ammo. If he had clarified and asked if he could do it beforehand, then I'd say he had instructions to do so. That last part is just my opinion based on why be a butthead. If I see a shooter complete a stage with their SG belt too high, I'll pass on the penalty and just have them correct the problem... At a monthly... Same kinda thing here...IMHO. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast Masterson Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said: I sure hated to get in on this discussion but here goes. Are we talking about the validity or the morality of the call. There are clubs that do not follow sass rules explicitly. Technically, the stage instructions didn't say to stage the ammo. The rule is pretty specific as to how you can bring ammo to the line. When the coat came off and he retrieved the ammo it had then been staged. I would also say that if you take your shotgun belt off and sit it on the table to go back to and draw shells, you are staging the ammo. If he had clarified and asked if he could do it beforehand, then I'd say he had instructions to do so. That last part is just my opinion based on why be a butthead. Anything to get us to Page #4 is helpful ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 It doesn't matter if the ammo was staged in an approved manner. The rules say it must be carried to the line on your person OR staged as per instructions. That OR means only one of those conditions needs to be met, not both. Once it's been brought to the line on his person, that's it. It's legally acquired ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast Masterson Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: If I see a shooter complete a stage with their SG belt too high, I'll pass on the penalty and just have them correct the problem... At a monthly... Same kinda thing here...IMHO. Phantom A belt too high gives the shooter an advantage. That is not the same as gracefully trying to recover from a train wreck, when there no advantage to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: If I see a shooter complete a stage with their SG belt too high, I'll pass on the penalty and just have them correct the problem... At a monthly... Same kinda thing here...IMHO. Phantom I agree with you. Ammo was not legally aquired, but why be a butthead. Shooter was having fun and probably could care less 8f the call was made or not anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Wasn't it? Pg 28 ...rounds safely placed onto a prop from their original loading area may be recovered and used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Flyin through those manuals, ain't we? Yes, you can stage ammo and then retrieve it. per SHB pg. 28, third line. And a pocket IS a legal way to hold ammunition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Did the sleeves of the coat sweep anyone during ammo retrieval ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Now that's a whole 'nother animal. Unloaded sleeve is SDQ, loaded... MDQ. Sorry shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said: It doesn't matter if the ammo was staged in an approved manner. The rules say it must be carried to the line on your person OR staged as per instructions. That OR means only one of those conditions needs to be met, not both. Once it's been brought to the line on his person, that's it. It's legally acquired ammo. I knew better than to get in on this. No. That doesn't make sense because: In order to stage the ammo it would need to be brought to the line. Why would they waste the ink to put "or staged safely ACCORDING TO STAGE INSTRUCTIONS. The reason it says OR is for the circumstance when a stage calls for staged ammo. It doesn't mean you get to pick. The shells were technically staged and the instructions didn't say to. So technically it illegally acquired. Im usually in the camp of "if you see it, make the call". This situation to me is why I didnt want to get in on the conversation because I wouldn't have called it. He already spent 30 minutes getting the ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 minute ago, Tennessee williams said: . He already spent 30 minutes getting the ammo. Besides that, he is a real nice fella - he just can't stand to see KD targets still standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Isn't SHB pg 28 clear? "Safely placed on a prop... may be recovered" If the stage instructions told you to stage rounds, you would have this guidance already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoky Pistols Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Oh, this thing just has to get to Page 4! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Getting duller than the super bowl ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I believe the caveat to be able to stage rounds per stage inst. was the only way you USED to be able to pick up "down" ammo. The rule has been changed to allow safely retrieving dropped rounds and STAGED rounds. I just don't think that wording was changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just now, Yusta B. said: Getting duller than the super bowl ...... NOTHING is duller than that! Gaaaabage! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Dang - I spilled spot remover on my dog & he disappeared .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blast Masterson Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 We don't need a rule for every potential situation, that is what congress does... He safely re-staged the shotgun. He did not leave the line. He did not gain an advantage. He did not shoot another gun and come back. Are we on Page 4 yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Yay! 100 posts on this (well, 101 now) Page 4 here we come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clay Thornton Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 The tired cowboy removed is hat and wiped the sweat from his furrowed brow. He arched is back and began speaking in a somber tone, "I remember long ago, back on page one, I was there I tell you, the day PWB challenged our posse to get all the way to page 4" He paused for a moment as if remembering a simpler time and continued. "He thought we wouldn't take it seriously, he thought wrong". The cowboy pulled his revolver from his holster and began firing into the air, as if celebrating Christmas or the 4th of July. And that was the end of the most long drawn out WTC this town had ever seen! Or was it?......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said: Flyin through those manuals, ain't we? Yes, you can stage ammo and then retrieve it. per SHB pg. 28, third line. And a pocket IS a legal way to hold ammunition. Might ought to slow down just a hair and make sure you don't miss some crucial wording. Such as "in an approved manner" and "according to stage instructions". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 A pocket IS an approved manner and page 28 says nothing about per stage inst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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