Sheriff Langston Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I'm loading 45-70 for an H & R Buffalo Classic and a Pedersoli Sharps. Using either 350 or 405 grain Chey Cast coated bullets with light loads of 24 grains H4198 I'm using the Hornady OAL guage along with their comparator to establish overall length for each rifle. I believe some folks simply use a lubed lead bullet, seat it loosely in the case so it sort of slides back in as the breech is closed. Hence the projectile is "tight" into the barrel. However I'm more inclined to use a light crimp on these coated bullets. What I don't seem to be able to determine is if I need to use a setback or not while using a crimp. I've reloaded 38's for some time now however "precision" rifle caliber loading is relatively new to me. For these I'm using a Hornady LNL single stage. Any input appreciated. Sheriff Langston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 33gr of Trail Boss? The manual max for 405gr is 13gr. I hope that is a typo (not sure you could fit 33 without a lot of grunting on the seating die). I have a Pedersoli Boss Sharps and this is what I have found with it MMV. Bigger is best, I started with 405 but have found as the range increases (beyond 200m) the bigger the slug the better. I am now using 535gr and have good results at 400m, I am working on longer ranges. Slow and easy, faster isnt better at long range. My 400m loads were around 1350/1400 fps but I want to bring that down to just under the subsonic threshold. The guy beside me at 400 was throwing 500gr slugs at 1100fps and was getting 10's consistently (a Pedersoli Sharps). With my loads I tend to size to have the proj as close to the rifling as I can but I dont go to great lengths to get them all right. I find consistency more important than any particular length (all one run the same rather than a particular length- within reason). I use a Redington Competition seating die. MMV (Mileage May Vary) P.S. I dont crimp at all for the Sharps but you will need a cartridge seating tool as some of your belling may make it a bit snug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 There is no way you can get 33 grains of TrailBoss in a 45-70 case. 24 grains of H4198 in a 45-70 case requires the use of a filler. Fillers done improperly can lead to catastrophic results. By coated bullet do you mean molly or coated with Hy-Tek or similar coating that most CAS shooters use in their main match firearms.. The procedure you describe for loading is not for beginners and done incorrectly can result in the failure of your firearm. I strongly suggest you find a mentor to show you the ropes for breach seating of projectiles. The process is complicated and usually the rifle has the leade cut specifically for breach seating bullets. Typically the bullets are designed to facilitate the breach seating process and are cast from a custom cut mould. A special tool will also be required to seat the bullet to the proper depth. Both of your firearms will give excellent results with the bullets seated into the case and then properly crimped. A properly sized bullet for your specific barrel coupled with the right powder will give excellent accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Langston Posted January 30, 2019 Author Share Posted January 30, 2019 Thanks both. Yes the Trail Boss was a senior moment. I meant IMR 4198. I'll act on your advice and stick to a consistent and safe seating depth. Chey cast use Hi-Tek Coating SL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Many folks still find a conventional lubed bullet to give better accuracy for rifle work, rather than the poly-coated slugs. As a safety check on length, load up a dummy round to the OAL you think is a good choice, then chamber it. If rifling engraves the nose so it's quite visible, you have too much length to be able to easily unchamber a round that you don't want to fire. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I will check my records as I have some crony data for H4198. I am currently loading that at 27/28/29 gr (i wont go below that, see comments by SD) but I am doubtful I will get below 1200fps with those so I am going to try ADI 2205 (H4227). GJ also has a point as the guy beside me shooting 500gr was using lubed lead proj. I use the coated for ease and convenience rather than any believed accuracy benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Crimes Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 OK , from a 34" Pedersoli Sharps: 405gr (H4198- we call this 2207) (fps) 32gr- 1270 33gr- 1314 34gr- 1433- the most accurate at 200m) 35gr- 1463 TB 16gr- 1100 (over max in manual but worked on the 70% capacity formula) 535gr (H4198) (fps) 28gr- 1250 29gr- 1309 TB- 10gr- 680 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Many folks still find a conventional lubed bullet to give better accuracy for rifle work, rather than the poly-coated slugs. I did a lot of research on poly coated bullets for long range. I found a few old threads where people experimenting with them on BPCR.net. From what I gathered they are not capable of the same level of accuracy that conventional lubed bullets are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Seat to crimp grove-Crimp when using 'white' powder. Try 14gn-14.5gn of Unique with a 400-420gn lead bullet. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheatin Charlie Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 Lumpy, I know you seem to love Unique for about everything but I have a question for you. I loaded some 125g 38 sp rounds this summer with Unique. I was pleased with the results. Then shot them in 40 deg weather I was afraid some of them would not leave the pistol. Have you noticed Unique being sensative to temp. I normally use Tite Group and do not have temp problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Cheatin Charlie said: Lumpy, I know you seem to love Unique for about everything but I have a question for you. I loaded some 125g 38 sp rounds this summer with Unique. I was pleased with the results. Then shot them in 40 deg weather I was afraid some of them would not leave the pistol. Have you noticed Unique being sensative to temp. I normally use Tite Group and do not have temp problems. What was the load? Are you using a firm roll crimp? I see temps from low 30's to 110* here in the Mojave-never an issue with 'U'. I use 4.0gn of Unique with 125-158gn lead bullets, in .38 Special. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 For years, I have used IMR4198 with a 2-inch square of single-ply toilet tissue poked LOOSELY into the case, allowing the bullet to compress the paper. This has proven to be a good, safe load, while keeping the powder back against the primer. This load was used with either a Lyman #457483GC bullet, or a #457124 plain base, both cast with Lyman #2 equivalent alloy (wheelweights and pure lead). These are okay in Trapdoor Springfields in good condition.* For heavy hunting loads I have gone with 43gr of ReloadeR #7 behind either the 405gr Remington JFSP or the 400 gr Speer JFSP bullets. NOTE: THESE WERE USE ONLY IN A REWORKED M1886 Winchester for about 1730 ft/sec from the 19" barrel. The other load I've used is 48 gr. IMR3031 behind the same bullets. DO NOT USE IN TRAPDOOR SPRINGFIELDS! As far as crimp is concerned, I use a visible roll crimp into the crimp groove of lead bullets, and into the crimp cannelures of the metal jacketed slugs. *[Note: I can assume NO RESPONSIBILITY for the use of the above information in guns other than my own...and maybe not then!] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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