Cold weather and Anti-Freeze for vehicles

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Some places this week are gonna see about -50 temps for the first time ever, according to some

weather forecasters.

 

QUESTION #1:   Just how cold will some of our anti-freeze work.   Will the normal 50-50 mix be sufficient 

or will something else be required.

 

QUESTION #2:  Will tires freeze or get a flat spot on the bottom?

 

..........Widder

 

[Pat Riot]

According to sites on the internet -37 degrees F is max protection. 

http://chemical-biological.tpub.com/TB-750-651/TB-750-6510006.htm

 

If the cold is due to wind chill blocking your radiator with a sheeet of cardboard may help some.

 

 

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I lived in northern Alberta for many years with no garage.

We used a trickle charger for the battery, cardboard sheet in front of the rad, along with a block heater and covered the engine with an old blanket.

Car started OK even when it dropped to a balmy -60

If you can avoid having the spark plugs frost up inside, you shouldn't have trouble starting, hence, the block heater.

If your vehicle isn't equipped with a block heater, an incandescent light bulb may help, if the engine is covered etc.

In those earlier days, the rayon tires did go flat on one side and would only get round again after they were driven slowly for a couple of miles.

The tires of today don't seem to have that issue, even in the coldest days I've experienced around Ottawa.

Good antifreeze may get a little "slushy" but liquefies quickly, as the engine warms. 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Based on research by Peter Poortvliet, Phd in Neuroscience from the University of Queensland, he cites evidence that shows that Ice Cream, despite it's freezing temperature, actually ends up warming the human body when eaten. 

With this in mind, a possible solution to keeping your vehicle warm would be to give it something cold.

 

 

[Yul Lose]

I don’t know if they are still made and sold or not but I used a dipstick heater when I used to live in the San Luis valley of Colorado. It went in the oil dipstick pipe and would keep the oil in the engine warm and the engine would start right up. Got down to -50 a few times there.

[Dawg Hair, SASS #29557]

24 minutes ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

Based on research by Peter Poortvliet, Phd in Neuroscience from the University of Queensland, he cites evidence that shows that Ice Cream, despite it's freezing temperature, actually ends up warming the human body when eaten. 

With this in mind, a possible solution to keeping your vehicle warm would be to give it something cold.

 

 

I like your logic!  

[Sedalia Dave]

Never saw a tire freeze but I have seen them get flat spots that took a few miles to work themselves out.

  

Actual air temp is what really matters. Wind chill is just a way of saying how cold it feels. If the air temp was 33 degrees and the wind chill was -10 water still would not freeze. What the wind actually does is remove heat faster that it would if the air was not moving.

 

When the air temp is very near the freezing temp of engine coolant there are a few things that you should do.

   1. Park your vehicle so that the wind cannot blow across the radiator. This will help ensure that the radiator doesn't freeze by preventing the wind from rapidly cooling your radiator and engine.  Remember that they have thermal mass and that thermal mass will prevent the coolant from freezing solid if you can keep the wind from blowing through your radiator.

   2. Allow your car to warm up before driving it.  Coolant does not freeze instantle but will form ice crystals that will quickly thaw if given a little time.

   3. Put something in front of the radiator to reduce its efficency. The car will not overheat and it will keep the coolant from loosing too much heat.

   4. Make sure the snow dows not get trapped in your engine compartment. It can prevent all air movement and cause your car to overheat.

 

As YL stated a dip stick heater is beneficial and they are still made.  

As CLK stated keep your battery fully charged. A trickle charger helps as lot. As does a 100 watt incandescent light bulb in close proximity to the battery coupled with a blanket on the hood. Make sure that the bulb is not too close to anything flamable.

 

 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

@Sedalia Dave,

            Appreciate the time you took to lay the above  processes out.

             For us Floridians though reading it just makes us .

[Grass Range]

Headbolt heater, tank heater, dipstick heater, battery heater. All plugged into an outlet with enough amps ? to run all that.

[J-BAR #18287]

Or you can go out every couple of hours and start your engine and let it warm up.  I did that one winter while living in northern Michigan.  No garage, no headbolt or dipstick heater.  Dont do it inside a garage of course; carbon monoxide is worse than a frozen radiator.

[Blast Masterson]

Quote

Wind-chill or windchill, is the lowering of body temperature due to the passing-flow of lower-temperature air.

 

Windchill does not occur except in living organisms. Wind does however increase the rate of heat transfer. So insulation 'slows' the time it takes to change temperature, but can never prevent things from freezing.

 

Evaporative cooling (experienced by living organisms) in relation to windchill will in fact lower the body temperature below the ambient air temperature. You will freeze faster and colder than your vehicle.

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

I don’t know if they are still made and sold or not but I used a dipstick heater when I used to live in the San Luis valley of Colorado. It went in the oil dipstick pipe and would keep the oil in the engine warm and the engine would start right up. Got down to -50 a few times there.

I had one of these in a car I owned many years ago in Pennsylvania. It really worked.

 

I did as Cold Lake Kid suggested. Covered engine with a quilted moving blanket, I slid cardboard in front of the radiator, I also put a trouble light under the blanket just behind the radiator. I also put gas tank antifreeze treatment (I can't remember the proper name) in my fuel tank.

[Pat Riot]

Check this link out:

 

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=dipstick+oil+heater&tag=googhydr-20&index=aps&hvadid=153668532189&hvpos=1t1&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8663187558777017391&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031542&hvtargid=kwd-2961571821&ref=pd_sl_8zx7pptl66_e

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Up here we used our Anti Freeze  Straight Up ,,,,No added Water, the Brand I use says it won't "jell" until it gets -70 F for and extended period of Time ...

And I have been places where it has "Jelled" ...  One November Hunting trip John and I got a little Cold one night, when the propane bottles on my camper froze solid and the heater quit ..... It was a - 47 F ....  Shot a Buck Whitetail that morning with my .375 Ruger got packed up and headed home ....

As neither John nor I wanted to face a Whole night with out heat...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Yul Lose]

2 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I had one of these in a car I owned many years ago in Pennsylvania. It really worked.

 

I did as Cold Lake Kid suggested. Covered engine with a quilted moving blanket, I slid cardboard in front of the radiator, I also put a trouble light under the blanket just behind the radiator. I also put gas tank antifreeze treatment (I can't remember the proper name) in my fuel tank.

I believe the additive for the gas tank that I used was called Heat.

[Pat Riot]

Just now, Yul Lose said:

I believe the additive for the gas tank that I used was called Heat.

That's it. Thanks Yul.

[Utah Bob #35998]

2 hours ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

Based on research by Peter Poortvliet, Phd in Neuroscience from the University of Queensland, he cites evidence that shows that Ice Cream, despite it's freezing temperature, actually ends up warming the human body when eaten. 

With this in mind, a possible solution to keeping your vehicle warm would be to give it something cold.

 

 

When a freeze is predicted in the orange groves, they turn on the sprinklers to coat the fruit with ice which will keep it at freezing rather than super low temps and protect them overnight.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Dangle a 100W incandescent light bulb inside the engine compartment. Leave the cab heater valve open.

Put a blanket or such over the hood.

Don't worry about car tires. The flat spot deal was back when Nylon was the cord material.

50/50 mix of AF, will be fine..........

OLG

[Captain Bill Burt]

30 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Dangle a 100W incandescent light bulb inside the engine compartment. Leave the cab heater valve open.

Put a blanket or such over the hood.

Don't worry about car tires. The flat spot deal was back when Nylon was the cord material.

50/50 mix of AF, will be fine..........

OLG

Actually it depends upon the tires.  My Camaro SS came with Goodyear Supercar III summer tires (all SS 1LE's do).  If exposed to temperatures below 20 degrees for any significant period of time the rubber is permanently damaged and the tires are no longer safe. 

 

I have a screen I can pull up on the dash that shows tire temperature.  Generally I get green colored tires listed as 'Normal'.  On cold days (below 50) they come up blue colored (listed as 'Cool') and will typically warm up to green after driving a few miles.  Run them really hard at the track and you get a nice orange and they're listed as 'Warm'.  See white or red and a listing of 'Cold' or 'Hot' and you have a problem.

 

So yes, extreme cold can permanently damage some tires.

 

To go back to Widder's question.  I've found that my garage is usually at least 10 degrees warmer than outside during the winter.  If your car is garage kept I doubt you have anything to worry about.  If I thought the temperature was going to fall below 10 degrees I would probably stick a space heater on the lowest setting out there.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

5 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I believe the additive for the gas tank that I used was called Heat.

 

Heat isn't a gas antifreeze. What it does is get water out of your fuel by lifting it in suspension and allowing it to pass through the fuel system. It's a solution for the old days when you'd get water buildup in your tank or carburetor, and the water would settle on the bottom and be what the fuel pump picked up causing your engine to idle rough and stall.

 

By the way with -50 temps another thing to worry about is the plastic pieces on your car going hard and cracking, such as the dash or door trim.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

3 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Actually it depends upon the tires.  My Camaro SS came with Goodyear Supercar III summer tires (all SS 1LE's do).  If exposed to temperatures below 20 degrees for any significant period of time the rubber is permanently damaged and the tires are no longer safe. 

 

I have a screen I can pull up on the dash that shows tire temperature.  Generally I get green colored tires listed as 'Normal'.  On cold days (below 50) they come up blue colored (listed as 'Cool') and will typically warm up to green after driving a few miles.  Run them really hard at the track and you get a nice orange and they're listed as 'Warm'.  See white or red and a listing of 'Cold' or 'Hot' and you have a problem.

 

So yes, extreme cold can permanently damage some tires.

 

To go back to Widder's question.  I've found that my garage is usually at least 10 degrees warmer than outside during the winter.  If your car is garage kept I doubt you have anything to worry about.  If I thought the temperature was going to fall below 10 degrees I would probably stick a space heater on the lowest setting out there.

Those are not your std tires.

Do you use Nitrogen in them?

What I posted, was what we 'ramp-rats' did when I worked AK in the winter.

We did have to move the AC every 2-3 days because of the tires taking a 'set'.

OLG

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Those are not your std tires.

Do you use Nitrogen in them?

What I posted, was what we 'ramp-rats' did when I worked AK in the winter.

We did have to move the AC every 2-3 days because of the tires taking a 'set'.

OLG

 

You got that right!  Nope, no nitrogen, just some weird rubber compound that makes them super sticky, but brittle if too cold.  They'll wear out by next summer and I'll buy all seasons.  A little less sticky, but safer in the cold and wet.

[Trailrider #896]

My own experience New Year's Day 1969, in Great Falls, Montana, was even taking the battery out of the car for six hours, using a tank heater, and 5W oil, a '65 Ford V8 would NOT start at -52F.  Turned the key and the engine went rrr, and quit! Finally got it started the next morning when the temperature "warmed up" to -37F! At -52F the crankcase oil probably had the consistency of asphalt!

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Easy solution... just bring it inside!

 

[Yul Lose]

3 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

 

Heat isn't a gas antifreeze. What it does is get water out of your fuel by lifting it in suspension and allowing it to pass through the fuel system. It's a solution for the old days when you'd get water buildup in your tank or carburetor, and the water would settle on the bottom and be what the fuel pump picked up causing your engine to idle rough and stall.

 

By the way with -50 temps another thing to worry about is the plastic pieces on your car going hard and cracking, such as the dash or door trim.

I know it isn’t gas antifreeze and on my 1952 International pickup and 1958 Chevy Biscayne I didn’t have to worry about plastic dashes and door trim, they didn’t have any.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

13 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I don’t know if they are still made and sold or not but I used a dipstick heater...….

 

A dipstick heater. You don't know how hard it is for me not to ask who the dipstick was.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

12 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

I believe the additive for the gas tank that I used was called Heat.

HEET?

 

HEET is methanol and a few other things.  If you’re using gas with ethanol added you already have alcohol in your gas to cause any water to mix and not freeze.

[Chili Ron]

Howdy from the land of no mosquitos,

Ive owned a wide variety of cars.

If a car starts and then quits running you might check the

fuel line or fuel filter. Ive had two cars with slush in the fuel filters.

The filter stops water from entering the engine, fine.

But the water sits there and turns to slush.

My theory is the warmup demands little fuel.

Once on the road demand goes way up and ice bits stack up at the filter.

This stops the car miles from home.

Answer is to add fuel stuff which you did think to buy, right??

Again block radiator is good, remove block cardboard at the first hint

of overheat. 

Clear line however you can or call for hep.

The temp is the temp. Cars don't fee wind chill. No nerves.

Best

CR

 

[Outlaw Gambler]

If  you don't already have one go to the local goodwill store and pick up an electric blanket. They are large enough to drape over your engine and radiator. Turn up to "high" and let it keep your under hood items toasty.

[Assassin]

Magnetic block heater. They just stick to iron parts of the block and plug them in for heat and quick starts. There are still businesses around these parts that have power outlets in order to plugin such devices. All of the diesel trucks I've owned came with factory installed block heaters. 

[Three Foot Johnson]

On 1/29/2019 at 11:19 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Don't worry about car tires. The flat spot deal was back when Nylon was the cord material.

OLG

I remember the square tire syndrome, but not in quite a few years now. Now I know why!

[Dirty Low Down sass 23492]

A mechanics work light----( electric light made inside a cage like surrounding  & a hook on top to hang it with) is one darn good help in situations like this----use mine as heat when needed---cage like keeps things from touching bulb----even works good in dog house keeps me & old dog warm!!----Got a area in my shop where water pipes are exposed & close to outside wall------keep a oil filled space heater there-set it on lowest setting-come spring time turn it off & unplug it!!!

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Remember the good ol' days of carburetor icing? You car/truck would start and run just fine, but two miles down the street the cold air rushing through the venturi would cause ice to build up around the butterfly valves and suddenly you'd be in the middle of an intersection with a stalled vehicle that wouldn't restart. Finally they came up with ways to pipe exhaust gas under the carb or run an electric heating pad. Part of the morning ritual was to go outside and start your car in the freezing cold, then let it run for a half hour so that it wouldn't kill you two blocks from home.

[Dutch Wheeler]

6 hours ago, Dirty Low Down sass 23492 said:

A mechanics work light----( electric light made inside a cage like surrounding  & a hook on top to hang it with) is one darn good help in situations like this----use mine as heat when needed---cage like keeps things from touching bulb----even works good in dog house keeps me & old dog warm!!----Got a area in my shop where water pipes are exposed & close to outside wall------keep a oil filled space heater there-set it on lowest setting-come spring time turn it off & unplug it!!!

This is a great idea, as long as you can still get your hands on an old fashioned incandescent light bulb! 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

1 hour ago, Dutch Wheeler said:

This is a great idea, as long as you can still get your hands on an old fashioned incandescent light bulb! 

Ya didn’t horde a few? In different wattages?