Challenger-33 years ago

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

 

[Cypress Sun]

I remember that day vividly. My coworkers and I watched it from the roof of a 3 story bank building in Tampa. One of them had never watched a launch before. When it blew up, he commented that "That's really cool". I told him that it wasn't and that something was REALLY wrong. Watched the booster rockets make their lazy spirals and stood there in stunned disbelief. It was a sad day for NASA and the space program. When it came out that NASA had been warned about the O-rings in cold weather, I was pretty pissed that they had made the decision to go ahead with the launch.

 

Rest in peace to all of the pioneers who lost their lives in the name of space exploration.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

33 years ago...

 

I was a 3rd year engineering student at West Point.  Heard the news while heading from class to lunch formation.

 

But for me, the interesting part came a year later while attending a lecture by another shuttle pilot who also had partial O-ring failure on his mission.  He left us with two unforgettable messages that night.

 

First, never be afraid to speak up.  The O-rings were a widely known issue, and everybody had to deal with the collective and individual guilt of not saying more. 

 

Second, never stop exploring.  Just like Columbus or Magellan, great voyages come with great risks.  Even after Challenger, they were all ready to fly again.

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

 

[Smoken D]

Had been interrogating a murder suspect and took a break watching the lift off. Never forget

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

 

 

That speach probably saved NASA.  Had the same thing happened under a different president NASA probably wouldn't survive.

[Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474]

I was on my way to a business meeting and had to pull over to regain my composure.

The meeting was very subdued and the Chair asked for a moment of silence. 

[Trailrider #896]

I was under the weather that day, and didn't go into work, but listened to the launch on a then-900 number that covered the launches (no T.V. then)! When I heard the announcer say, "There has been an anomaly!" or something like that, I thought, "Oscar-Sierra!" I called my section, and they hadn't heard about it...yet!  Later, that weekend, we were called in to collect data on our system, the Solid Rocket Booster Decelerator Subsystem (SRBDSS), which was the boosters' parachute recovery system, I looked at all the previous "downstage" reports, which we got after every flight, but which were not part of our contract, so we didn't "worry" about it.  Our system had NOTHING to do with the disaster.  As a matter of fact. the drogue parachute from the left-hand SRB, which, after deploying the three main 136 ft. diameter main parachutes, was used to recover the frustum of the nosecone e assembly, was the ONLY thing that worked as it was supposed to, and could have been reused! Instead, it was buried along with the rest of the recovered wreckage, in the Cape's Minuteman silo, after the accident investigation.

 

Turned out the previous August and the April before that there had been leakage past the main O-ring 120 deg. around the perimeter of both SRB's!     Fortunately, even if the leaks had propagated and vented, (IIRC) they were away from the External Tank (ET) and the support struts!  This flight, they weren't so lucky!  What would have happened if we had said something to NASA-Marshall SFC?  NOTHING!  We would have been told that wasn't our concern (not part of our contract responsibilities!) and to shut up!  As it was, McDonald and Bousjolais, the SRB manager and his engineer at Morton-Thiokol were told to "Stop thinking like an engineer and start thinking like a manager!"  [See "Truth, Lies and O-rings"]  That manager at MSFC, who said that, in a lot of other countries would have been given a choice to do the "honorable" thing or be sent to a gulag!  Instead, he probably eventually retired with a "golden parachute"  

 

When Columbia "went in", there was reason to believe there had been damage to the thermal protection system on the wing of the orbiter.  NASA engineers reportedly (allegedly???) emailed back and forth about whether they should try to get detailed photos of the shuttle from another government agency.  Allegedly, they decided not to bring it up with their managers because of the managers attitudes toward such "boat-rocking"! 

 

The tragic aspect of these two disasters was NOT the result of some "unknown" jumping up and biting the program, but IMHO, the arrogance of NASA management!  (IMHO this was also a proximal cause of the Apollo 1 fire that killed the crew on the pad!) Since the two Shuttle disasters, however, NASA has become SO risk averse that our manned space program has gone virtually nowhere, except through the efforts of private industry! (@#$%^&*_+!!!!)

 

Please pardon me while I go lie down and try to get my blood pressure back under control!

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Thanks Trailrider for your post. I too worked on the Shuttle at North American Rockwell. I was in charge of all the Production Engineering and Manufacturing of the Aft Fuselage. Being a contractor, you know as well as I do that we couldn't point at NASA and say "You Screwed Up" ! We (all of us) ended up taking the blame for both Shuttle crashes when NASA should have been looking in a mirror for establishing blame. It is a shame as the whole Shuttle System was designed for a much longer life than it had. NASA decided to shut down the program for purely political reasons. The Russians took over the Shuttles job at a much higher cost.

I got so tired of all the politics, that I left NAR and went to work for Northrop, better....but still a government contractor!

[Eyesa Horg]

WOW, amazing how the time goes by. I vividly remember it as well, I was in telephone repair school and saw it on the telly.

[Yul Lose]

I was on I10 north of Casa Grande, Az. when the news broke on the country radio station I was listening to. Sad day for sure.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I remember watching the disaster live, and then was glued to the tube for the rest of the day. I also remember Tom Brokaw gushing at great length about the tragic loss of Christa McCauliffe, without mentioning the rest of the crew. After several minutes of this, NBC's NASA correspondent at the Cape interrupted Brokaw and said something to this effect, "Tom, I'm sorry to interrupt, but it should be noted there were 6 other people on this flight. I got to know all of them, and they were my friends."

 

There was a pregnant pause and then an embarrassed Brokaw said "Yes, that's correct.." and then read their names. Lest we forget, they were:

 

Francis R. Scobee, commander

Michael J. Smith, pilot

Ronald McNair, mission specialist

Ellison Onizuka, mission specialist

Judith Resnik, mission specialist

Gregory Jarvis, payload specialist

Christa McAuliffe, payload specialist

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

I was still in high school, and I remember the principal telling us over the intercom what had happened. I couldn't quite imagine it until I got home and watched the news. Very upsetting, especially at school since everybody knew a teacher was on board.

 

I also remember the Columbia disaster as well. A few days earlier the news media had picked up on the story that something had torn off the shuttle and appeared to hit the wing, but NASA wasn't worried about it. Of course as soon as it happened I immediately thought "I'll bet whatever that thing was put a gash in the wing!" It took months of tests for NASA to eventually determine that it was a piece of foam from the external fuel tank, and yes it came off at a velocity high enough to puncture the wing. Wow, I should work for NASA!

[Trailrider #896]

1 hour ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

I remember watching the disaster live, and then was glued to the tube for the rest of the day. I also remember Tom Brokaw gushing at great length about the tragic loss of Christa McCauliffe, without mentioning the rest of the crew. After several minutes of this, NBC's NASA correspondent at the Cape interrupted Brokaw and said something to this effect, "Tom, I'm sorry to interrupt, but it should be noted there were 6 other people on this flight. I got to know all of them, and they were my friends."

 

There was a pregnant pause and then an embarrassed Brokaw said "Yes, that's correct.." and then read their names. Lest we forget, they were:

 

Francis R. Scobee, commander

Michael J. Smith, pilot

Ronald McNair, mission specialist

Ellison Onizuka, mission specialist

Judith Resnik, mission specialist

Gregory Jarvis, payload specialist

Christa McAuliffe, payload specialist

 

Do you recall if the NBC correspondent was Jay Barbree?  I was acquainted with Jay when I was a summer hire with the Navy's Naval Ordnance Test Unit, working on the Polaris Project at the Cape in 1961.  I was privileged to have met 6 of the 7 Mercury astronauts. (Gordo Cooper was in Australia getting ready to act as Capcom for the unmanned Mercury-Atlas shot coming up later. I saw Gus Grissom's Mercury-Redstone launch and attended the press conference with Jay after Grissom was recovered.  He was in NO WAY at fault for the hatch blowing, as erroneously alleged in the movie "The Right Stuff"!  Both Jay and I talked with some McDonnell engineers, and the probable cause was the firing pin block "walking" down opposite the twin initiators after Grissom pulled the safing pin PER THE WRITTEN PROCEDURE when the capsule landed.  For the rest of the program, the procedure was rewritten to leave the safing pin in until ready to blow the hatch!

Sadly, the Apollo 201 fire took the lives of Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee.  Wonder who the idiot was that forgot basic high school chemistry, that demonstrated what happens when you insert a glowing piece of wood into a test tube of 100 percent oxygen? Of course, the main reason for NASA insisting on that complicated hatch was fear that a quick release hatch (which I understand correctly had already been designed but overruled by NASA) might blow open in space!  After the major redesign of the Apollo capsule, they went back to the original design.  Sometimes you can try to be too safe! Hopefully, the commercial outfits will be cautious, but not too cautious. 

"The more they overthink th' plumbing, th' easier it is to stop up th' drain!" - Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott, Engineer on the Star Ship Enterprise.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 hour ago, Trailrider #896 said:

Do you recall if the NBC correspondent was Jay Barbree?  I was acquainted with Jay when I was a summer hire with the Navy's Naval Ordnance Test Unit, working on the Polaris Project at the Cape in 1961.  I was privileged to have met 6 of the 7 Mercury astronauts. (Gordo Cooper was in Australia getting ready to act as Capcom for the unmanned Mercury-Atlas shot coming up later. I saw Gus Grissom's Mercury-Redstone launch and attended the press conference with Jay after Grissom was recovered.  He was in NO WAY at fault for the hatch blowing, as erroneously alleged in the movie "The Right Stuff"!  Both Jay and I talked with some McDonnell engineers, and the probable cause was the firing pin block "walking" down opposite the twin initiators after Grissom pulled the safing pin PER THE WRITTEN PROCEDURE when the capsule landed.  For the rest of the program, the procedure was rewritten to leave the safing pin in until ready to blow the hatch!

Sadly, the Apollo 201 fire took the lives of Grissom, Ed White and Roger Chaffee.  Wonder who the idiot was that forgot basic high school chemistry, that demonstrated what happens when you insert a glowing piece of wood into a test tube of 100 percent oxygen? Of course, the main reason for NASA insisting on that complicated hatch was fear that a quick release hatch (which I understand correctly had already been designed but overruled by NASA) might blow open in space!  After the major redesign of the Apollo capsule, they went back to the original design.  Sometimes you can try to be too safe! Hopefully, the commercial outfits will be cautious, but not too cautious. 

"The more they overthink th' plumbing, th' easier it is to stop up th' drain!" - Lt. Cdr. Montgomery Scott, Engineer on the Star Ship Enterprise.

I believe it was. Seemed like a pretty cool dude, unlike a lot of TV news personalities. I guess that's why I remember him.

 

Pretty cool you got to meet these people.

[Calamity Kris]

I remember it well also.  My former boss had won a "Snoopy" Award.  Part of her award was a trip to the Cape to view the launch.  She told me after the explosion happened they quickly shut the blinds and ushered everyone to a conference room downstairs for a debriefing.  She never forgot that day. 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

1 hour ago, Calamity Kris said:

I remember it well also.  My former boss had won a "Snoopy" Award.  Part of her award was a trip to the Cape to view the launch.  She told me after the explosion happened they quickly shut the blinds and ushered everyone to a conference room downstairs for a debriefing.  She never forgot that day. 

Snoopy was the "mascot' of the Astronauts, an early spacecraft (Mercury as I remember) was named Snoopy. An award to recognized outstanding performance on the job was established. Called the Silver Snoopy, each person recognized received a sterling silver Snoopy lapel pin and a Thank You letter. Snoopy had a helmet on and carried an oxygen pac.

 

I received one (along with all of my crew) for building and Aft Fuselage Thrust Structure defect free. It was the only time it was done on the Shuttle Program. We were a pretty proud bunch. I had some exceptional people working for me, they really made my job a lot easier. Attached is my letter. I also still have the pin.

[Trigger Mike]

I graduated basic that day and as I arrived in the barracks for ait I saw it on the day room TV. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 hour ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Snoopy was the "mascot' of the Astronauts, an early spacecraft (Mercury as I remember) was named Snoopy. An award to recognized outstanding performance on the job was established. Called the Silver Snoopy, each person recognized received a sterling silver Snoopy lapel pin and a Thank You letter. Snoopy had a helmet on and carried an oxygen pac.

 

I received one (along with all of my crew) for building and Aft Fuselage Thrust Structure defect free. It was the only time it was done on the Shuttle Program. We were a pretty proud bunch. I had some exceptional people working for me, they really made my job a lot easier. Attached is my letter. I also still have the pin.

That is so cool.

 

According to this, it was 1968 after the Apollo I fire. https://gizmodo.com/snoopy-the-astrobeagle-nasas-mascot-for-safety-1570066950

 

And who can forget this series from 1969...

 

 

 

[grenadier]

I was watching it with my seventh grade science class. I can remember Mr. Smith mumbling “That’s not supposed to happen!”

[Sixgun Sheridan]

"Obviously a major malfunction"

 

I always felt sorry for that NASA engineer who was only able to go by the readout on a computer screen and had absolutely no clue what had just happened. He must've been ridiculed by a lot of people for that awkward comment.

[Rye Miles #13621]

I was living at my Mom's house and I was in the back room when my very young niece called me from the living room and said "Come quick, a rocket an exploded" I ran out to the living room to witness it just seconds after it happened. Unbelievable, very sad day!

[Hoss Carpenter]

About four Months ago I was in a group of former Military Officers who had a guided tour of Cape Canaveral and the Air Force Station where all the different Rockets were launched by NASA over the years. As we approached one site, a Minuteman III Silo, our tour guide told us that after the Challenger crashed, and all the Investigations were over, NASA took all the leftover parts from the crash and put them all in the empty Silo. They then poured concrete over the top of it. It was chilling to see that site.

 

Hoss C.

[Trailrider #896]

1 hour ago, Hoss Carpenter said:

About four Months ago I was in a group of former Military Officers who had a guided tour of Cape Canaveral and the Air Force Station where all the different Rockets were launched by NASA over the years. As we approached one site, a Minuteman III Silo, our tour guide told us that after the Challenger crashed, and all the Investigations were over, NASA took all the leftover parts from the crash and put them all in the empty Silo. They then poured concrete over the top of it. It was chilling to see that site.

 

Hoss C.

The Minuteman silo was originally used to launch a Minuteman I, in 1961. I was working as a summer hire, missile checkout engineer trainee (G3 civilian) on the Polaris Program. We saw that launch...and the missile got halfway out of the tube...and the second stage ignited!   Burning chunks of propellant clear over to the Thor-Delta pad!  The Navy types watching with me were laughing their @$$es off.  Minuteman got its revenge on me for laughing, as I wound up as a missile maintenance officer on Minuteman about four years later!  

 

Yeah, after the Challenger investigation was over they buried all the pieces in the silo, including the frustum/isogrid and drogue parachute assembly from the lefthand SRB, the only thing that worked as it was supposed to and could have been reused (as was normally done).  Guess they didn't want it with any bad vibes "associated" with any other flights. 

|
|  RIP Challenger and Columbia

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[Hoss Carpenter]

I remember our Tour Guide (a Former long time NSA Employee) said NASA did not want any of the parts showing up on E Bay!  Hoss C.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Sadly Columbia should never have happened either. For years we knew there was a problem with ice buildup where the vent was for the lox to vent as it warmed up (-297c) and expanded. Design changes  could have helped (if not solved) the problem IMHO. A piece of foam (or ice) fell off during launch and punched a hole in the wing leading edge. The whole was close to the main landing gear compartment. I believe that the hot gases generated at reentry caused the tires on the MLG to explode.

 

Another sad situation that should not have happened.

[dannyd]

Watched it from the flight line Mayport, Florida.   We flew around the clock for the next month.