The TTN Model 1878 Hammered Double Barrel Coach Gun

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

A lot of folks ask about this TTN 1878 Hammered Shotgun so I thought I’d share a little of my Range Time with one of ‘em.

 

 

 

 

Enjoy!!

[Warden Callaway]

I lucked onto an original Colt 1878 12 gauge a few years back.   I'd only seen them in person in a museum.  I never thought I'd own one. It was an unfinished project gun.  I took it back to the last owner to show and tell.  I was shocked that he brought out yet another Colt 1878 that still needed some work to complete.  This one in 10 gauge and higher grade. I bought it and completed the project.  I traded into a Cimarron 1878 12 gauge - manly to compair to the originals - and to have something practical to play with. 

 

 

 

The Cimarron below the original 12 gauge. 

[D.A. Stranger]

Enjoyed, thanks for sharing

 

 

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

I lucked onto an original Colt 1878 12 gauge a few years back.   I'd only seen them in person in a museum.  I never thought I'd own one. It was an unfinished project gun.  I took it back to the last owner to show and tell.  I was shocked that he brought out yet another Colt 1878 that still needed some work to complete.  This one in 10 gauge and higher grade. I bought it and completed the project.  I traded into a Cimarron 1878 12 gauge - manly to compair to the originals - and to have something practical to play with. 

 

 

 

The Cimarron below the original 12 gauge. 

 

Thanks for sharing the photos Warden.  Looks like a great find.  

 

3 minutes ago, D.A. Stranger said:

Enjoyed, thanks for sharing

 

 

 

Glad you enjoyed it.  

[Warden Callaway]

14 minutes ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

Glad you enjoyed it.

 

Your videos are always fun to watch.  

 

Have you tried the T-Bone Dooley method of cocking and opening the top snap with the off hand?

 

 

With being able to cock the hammers for the first shot,   the hammer double can be almost as fast as a hammerless.  I shoot my CZ-USA Hammer Coach Gun the same way.  

 

I can't wait for more comfortable weather!

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

I usually shot a TTN hammered. Just more fun for me to shoot. I realize a lose time, but i ain't goin set any speed records anyway.

been cocking with the palm of my hand. I will have to try the thumb like in the video.

 

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

21 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Your videos are always fun to watch.  

 

Have you tried the T-Bone Dooley method of cocking and opening the top snap with the off hand?

 

With being able to cock the hammers for the first shot,   the hammer double can be almost as fast as a hammerless.  I shoot my CZ-USA Hammer Coach Gun the same way.  

 

I can't wait for more comfortable weather!

 

T-Bone is an absolute master with a Hammered Double.  I have tried that method but never stuck with it long enough to perfect it.  

 

8 minutes ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said:

I usually shot a TTN hammered. Just more fun for me to shoot. I realize a lose time, but i ain't goin set any speed records anyway.

been cocking with the palm of my hand. i will have to try the thumb like you did in the video.

 

I used to be a lot faster with the TTN (prior to getting spoiled by single-trigger hammerless shotguns ).  My pard, Col. Cornelius (you can search him on YouTube or on my channel) is really fast with a hammerered shotgun.  Not that it’s all about speed!  I shoot all sorts of firearms that aren’t necessarily “fast” but they are fun.  And, if you work with ‘em enough you can still be competitive if that is what you’re into.  

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

I will take a look at Col. Cornelius videos. Thanks

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Very Nice  Jed I Knight .

As I have told you on IG,

I love the fact you are using a Hammered Double .

I use a Pair of 72 cartridge guns or a pair of 51 Cap guns .

With a Uberti 1866 44 special .

And a Bakal hammered 12 ga.

Love your setup.

Rooster 

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

17 minutes ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said:

I will take a look at Col. Cornelius videos. Thanks

 

 

This’ll get you started.    He is an amazing Black Powder shooter!  I’ve shot with him since I started in this sport over two decades ago... and I really, really enjoy competing with him!  Plus he has a lot of knowledge about guns, loading, hunting, etc... just an all around good pard.  

 

7 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Very Nice  Jed I Knight .

As I have told you on IG,

I love the fact you are using a Hammered Double .

I use a Pair of 72 cartridge guns or a pair of 51 Cap guns .

With a Uberti 1866 44 special .

And a Bakal hammered 12 ga.

Love your setup.

Rooster 

 

Rooster!  This is YOUR episode pard.  All our back and forth on Instagram helped motivate me to finally do an episode focusing on this fine shotgun.  Glad you enjoyed it!  

[Warden Callaway]

 

You guys that know the family history of the "TTN" can tell me.  My Cimarron 1878 seems to be somewhat better made in many ways than my buddies older TTNs.   I took it to several matches and we compared guns.  They all agreed that my gun had better real walnut wood, opened easily from the get go, and hammer springs were much lighter. 

 

My questions are; Did I just get lucky? Are the Cimarron 1878 just built to a higher standard?  Did both versions come from the same factory? 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

My questions are; Did I just get lucky? Are the Cimarron 1878 just built to a higher standard?  Did both versions come from the same factory? 

 

One Chinese factory has made the TTN-Cimarron 1878 clones from the beginning.   They have gotten better over the 20 years they have been being made.  My 18+ year old 1878 clone has real walnut furniture.   I don't think they ever put cheap oriental white wood in the 78s.  (But the Norinco IAC factory surely did use "monkey" wood on early 1897 pump clones.)

 

The early 78s had real rough and heavy actions.  Springs on the hammers and locking lever were VERY heavy and roughly finished.   With years of complaints from customers, the factory started putting more hand work into smoothing the actions, providing lighter springs, and chambering the guns with sharp reamers.   My old TTN shotgun had such rough chambers that you would have thought they used an orange juice reamer to cut the chambers.  Took me buying a good reamer and honing tools, and about 20 hours of slaving over the chambers, to get all the gouges out of the chamber walls.   They are reamed more carefully now, too.  My 10 year old TTN was much better quality.

 

Since Cimarron is the more recent of the distributors, their "reputation level" benefits from the better quality levels that the factory now turns out.    It's not that the importer is doing much, just the Chinese have been forced into making a better gun, IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

Jed, double A's seem to stick in my chambers also. Only started happening the last year or so. I load reds for practice and monthly matches and greens for big matches, the greens seem to shuck easier, haven't taken a micrometer to them but I do clean up the edges of my shells after loading with black powder and reds take a little more effort in my socket.

Rafe

[Three Foot Johnson]

A dozen years ago, when these were affordable and more available, I bought two of 'em for $389.99 ea. from Sportsman's Warehouse. Had to have a backup, ya know...

[War Grizzly]

5 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

My questions are; Did I just get lucky? Are the Cimarron 1878 just built to a higher standard?  Did both versions come from the same factory

I'll say from my experience you got lucky. I've bought three of these in the past 4 years all new. The first was a complete loser. The stock was broke at the tang. The chambers were the roughest I've ever seen. The extractor fit so poorly the the action wouldn't open. Every screw on that thing was buggered. After reworking this gun it is slicker than snot but there's only so much I can do about the chambers. The second one was much improved suffering only from the normal finish issues common to most of the import Chinese guns. The third was the same as the second except that it came with 2 noticably different hammers. One is about .080" wider than the other and the checkering is different. I love shooting the 1878

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

My TTN is from '04.  At that point they were including a set of lighter mainsprings and a larger front sight bead in the box.  Later they just installed those parts before shipping.  I put those springs in my gun and it has always been great.  Has decent wood.  I never polished the chambers and most shells including my BP shells (in Gold Nitro hulls) rarely stick, and I don't clean during the match.  Due to the bluing being so dull, the thought of antiquing it appealed to me, so I did.  I often get asked if it is an original.  I do the cocking one at a time while reloading, and my speed would have been considered pretty good about 15 years ago.  One thing visibly changed at some point.  Older guns do not have the small screw towards the rear of the lock plates that are screwed into a threaded rod inside.  I guess it is supposed to strengthen the action but I haven't had any problems.  I don't know when that rod was added.

 

TTN stood for Thomas Trans National.  Thomas Yu was the guy behind it.  A Chinese guy raised in Australia.  I met him and had dinner one night when he was talking to Cimarron about taking over the importing.  He had some very interesting stories.  His Lexus had 600,000 miles on it.   He said the guns were more of a sideline, and that the real money was in herbal supplements.  He gave us some samples of Yun Zhi PSP, which is kind of mushroom ground up to make a tea, supposed to be good for Cancer and Diabetes and Kidney stuff, I think.  The box says Exclusive Importer/Distributor: T.T.N. International, Inc.  

 

I always thought the older TTNs were pretty good, though I knew of a few folks who had the main spring break the first time they cocked it.  I know the newer ones are mostly good, but quality varies for sure.

 

 

[Badlands Beady]

Gee.  The first shotgun I had for CAS was a TTN double-hammered, and that same gun is still my favorite, ten years later.  I never thought of it as something special, and kept wondering if I should get something newer.  Guess I'll hang onto it.

[Lead Friend, SASS #53635]

I bought one in about ‘04 or ‘05. It had very nice walnut and was a great gun right up to the moment that the barrels split at the rib. The importer sent me a new set of barrels that weren’t regulated didn’t fit right so I soured on TTN and sold it at a great loss, disclosing the details of my story to the buyer. A few years ago I found one of a similar vintage in a local gun store on consignment. I made an offer that reflected my previous experience and it was accepted. It’s been shot a lot and is a little loose but it’s a fine backup gun. The Cimarrons I’ve seen haven’t been as nice but it sounds like they are getting prettier.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Thanks Jed ..Always enjoy your videos..I bought one of those chinese copies  IAC 99 , works well & I use the Tbone method, well not as quick but it's a cool way  !!

[Warden Callaway]

 

Here I am shooting the Cimarron 1878 for the first time.  I'm shooting factory Remington Gun Club 1oz loads. 

 

I'm trying to find a set of 20" barrels to fit on this gun.  I contacted Cimarron and they don't stock barrels for them.

[Iron Biscuit SASS#108048]

Nice 

[Deadshot Dan]

If ya had choice between the TTN and the CZ hammertail what you say.  Is the extra cost of the CZ worth it ?  My comparison totally on mechanical function only as from what iv'e seen online only i know the CZ look's like a pretty gun with CCH.  I'm getting a hankering to try classic cowboy which means a whole new set of gun's for me so i'm thinkin value vs. function.   Thank you.

[Cemetery]

20 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Your videos are always fun to watch.  

 

Have you tried the T-Bone Dooley method of cocking and opening the top snap with the off hand?

 

 

With being able to cock the hammers for the first shot,   the hammer double can be almost as fast as a hammerless.  I shoot my CZ-USA Hammer Coach Gun the same way.  

 

I can't wait for more comfortable weather!

 

I tried this a few times, but the TTN is a bit on the heavy side for me to do this successfully.

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

16 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

One Chinese factory has made the TTN-Cimarron 1878 clones from the beginning.   They have gotten better over the 20 years they have been being made.  My 18+ year old 1878 clone has real walnut furniture.   I don't think they ever put cheap oriental white wood in the 78s.  (But the Norinco IAC factory surely did use "monkey" wood on early 1897 pump clones.)

 

The early 78s had real rough and heavy actions.  Springs on the hammers and locking lever were VERY heavy and roughly finished.   With years of complaints from customers, the factory started putting more hand work into smoothing the actions, providing lighter springs, and chambering the guns with sharp reamers.   My old TTN shotgun had such rough chambers that you would have thought they used an orange juice reamer to cut the chambers.  Took me buying a good reamer and honing tools, and about 20 hours of slaving over the chambers, to get all the gouges out of the chamber walls.   They are reamed more carefully now, too.  My 10 year old TTN was much better quality.

 

Since Cimarron is the more recent of the distributors, their "reputation level" benefits from the better quality levels that the factory now turns out.    It's not that the importer is doing much, just the Chinese have been forced into making a better gun, IMHO.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Thanks for the info GJ

 

12 hours ago, Rafe Conager SASS #56958 said:

Jed, double A's seem to stick in my chambers also. Only started happening the last year or so. I load reds for practice and monthly matches and greens for big matches, the greens seem to shuck easier, haven't taken a micrometer to them but I do clean up the edges of my shells after loading with black powder and reds take a little more effort in my socket.

Rafe

Hmm... interesting that you’re having trouble with the AA’s as well.  Sounds like a little more research is in order! 

 

12 hours ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

A dozen years ago, when these were affordable and more available, I bought two of 'em for $389.99 ea. from Sportsman's Warehouse. Had to have a backup, ya know...

I’d take two of ‘em at that price also.  

 

9 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

My TTN is from '04.  At that point they were including a set of lighter mainsprings and a larger front sight bead in the box.  Later they just installed those parts before shipping.  I put those springs in my gun and it has always been great.  Has decent wood.  I never polished the chambers and most shells including my BP shells (in Gold Nitro hulls) rarely stick, and I don't clean during the match.  Due to the bluing being so dull, the thought of antiquing it appealed to me, so I did.  I often get asked if it is an original.  I do the cocking one at a time while reloading, and my speed would have been considered pretty good about 15 years ago.  One thing visibly changed at some point.  Older guns do not have the small screw towards the rear of the lock plates that are screwed into a threaded rod inside.  I guess it is supposed to strengthen the action but I haven't had any problems.  I don't know when that rod was added.

 

TTN stood for Thomas Trans National.  Thomas Yu was the guy behind it.  A Chinese guy raised in Australia.  I met him and had dinner one night when he was talking to Cimarron about taking over the importing.  He had some very interesting stories.  His Lexus had 600,000 miles on it.   He said the guns were more of a sideline, and that the real money was in herbal supplements.  He gave us some samples of Yun Zhi PSP, which is kind of mushroom ground up to make a tea, supposed to be good for Cancer and Diabetes and Kidney stuff, I think.  The box says Exclusive Importer/Distributor: T.T.N. International, Inc.  

 

I always thought the older TTNs were pretty good, though I knew of a few folks who had the main spring break the first time they cocked it.  I know the newer ones are mostly good, but quality varies for sure.

 

 

Excellent photo and great info!  

 

5 hours ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Thanks Jed ..Always enjoy your videos..I bought one of those chinese copies  IAC 99 , works well & I use the Tbone method, well not as quick but it's a cool way  !!

You’re welcome. 

 

9 minutes ago, Deadshot Dan said:

If ya had choice between the TTN and the CZ hammertail what you say.  Is the extra cost of the CZ worth it ?  My comparison totally on mechanical function only as from what iv'e seen online only i know the CZ look's like a pretty gun with CCH.  I'm getting a hankering to try classic cowboy which means a whole new set of gun's for me so i'm thinkin value vs. function.   Thank you.

I don’t have any experience with the CZ so I’ll leave that for someone else to give their opinion on it. 

 

17 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

You guys that know the family history of the "TTN" can tell me.  My Cimarron 1878 seems to be somewhat better made in many ways than my buddies older TTNs.   I took it to several matches and we compared guns.  They all agreed that my gun had better real walnut wood, opened easily from the get go, and hammer springs were much lighter. 

 

My questions are; Did I just get lucky? Are the Cimarron 1878 just built to a higher standard?  Did both versions come from the same factory? 

That’s another nice photo, I like those long barrels!  And, great unboxing video.    

[Warden Callaway]

19 minutes ago, Deadshot Dan said:

If ya had choice between the TTN and the CZ hammertail what you say.  Is the extra cost of the CZ worth it ?  My comparison totally on mechanical function only as from what iv'e seen online only i know the CZ look's like a pretty gun with CCH.  I'm getting a hankering to try classic cowboy which means a whole new set of gun's for me so i'm thinkin value vs. function.   Thank you.

 

I've been shooting the CZ-USA Hammer coach gun for a couple of years. Excellent shotgun!  

 

 

The CZ is more than a pound lighter. And the balance point is further back. I practiced until I could T-bone cock it with left hand.  My gun is out of the box stock.  I don't think it needs any slicking up.  If you get one, just shoot it.

[Lead Friend, SASS #53635]

43 minutes ago, Deadshot Dan said:

If ya had choice between the TTN and the CZ hammertail what you say.  Is the extra cost of the CZ worth it ?  My comparison totally on mechanical function only as from what iv'e seen online only i know the CZ look's like a pretty gun with CCH.  I'm getting a hankering to try classic cowboy which means a whole new set of gun's for me so i'm thinkin value vs. function.   Thank you.

 

If I had to choose I’d say CZ. I suppose my circumstances belie that since the CZ is my go to and the TTN is my backup however, having both, either is  good place to start. Especially if you find one used at the the right price.

[Chance Derringer, SASS #19985]

I use my trigger finger to cock my TTN. 

Never could get the T-Bone method down. 

 

 

[Iron Biscuit SASS#108048]

Looked smooth and quick!

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

Back in May 2016 my father-in-law had asked for me to find him a hammered shot gun for home defense. (He had always wanted a hammered shotgun, but never owned one) I went to the SASS Classified and after receiving excellent information from hammered shotgun owners, made a deal to purchase a Coyote Cap 1887 Hammered shotgun for him.

 

When he passed away last year, I inherited the firearm and have now added it to my gun cart as a back-up.

Will try it during future matches and who knows, it may end up becoming my primary shotgun.

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Quote

1887 Hammered shotgun  - it may end up becoming my primary shotgun.

 

The TTN is SO much faster and reliable than that wide-hammer, clunky and flimsy shotgun that I got rid of mine.    Maybe you'll like it, though! 

 

Good luck, GJ

 

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

14 hours ago, Chance Derringer, SASS #19985 said:

I use my trigger finger to cock my TTN. 

Never could get the T-Bone method down. 

 

 

 

Wow.  That was really cool.