158 to 125 grain bullet

[Shanghai]

I finally reloaded the last of my 158 grain LRNFP  bullets and ready to start reloading 125 grains.  My load for both rifle and pistol has been 2.8  grains of clays  with an OAL of 1.475.  It’s always performed without a hitch and had great knockdown power.

 

With the new 125 grain LRNFP, I’m planning a load of 2.5 grains of clays and an OAL of 1.445.  My concern is whether I will have any feed issues with my 73 Uberti (action by Cody).  And if the 125 grain will have enough knockdown power for plates, etc.  

 

Should I increase the 1.445 OAL a bit and maybe go with 2.6 grains of clays?  I don’t want to have two separate loads (knockdown load), but I’m open to that option.  

[Tyrel Cody]

Well,  I'd go up to 3gr of Clay's and get above the min recommend load.

 I'd also  crimp outside the crimp groove and get the OAL closer to 1.50

 

My dos centavos.

[G W Wade]

I agree with Tyrel all the way.   He uses the same load I do and I have never had a problem with ant knockdown targets     GW

[Shanghai]

Tyrel, that’s more powder than I was using with the 158.  Part of my reason for transitioning is reduced recoil.  3 grains seems high.  But I will increase my OAL.  My thanks.

[Rattlesnake Slim]

4 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

I agree with Tyrel all the way.   He uses the same load I do and I have never had a problem with ant knockdown targets     GW

 

This and crimp as well or better than the 158's. That Clays has to build some pressure to burn consistently, and I've had problems with 125's breaking loose before that pressure builds. Seems 158's stay put just a little longer. But a tighter crimp always solved the problem.

[Deadshot Dan]

Howdy Shanghai, I'm on board with Tyrel on going ta 3 gr on that load.  As far as col, i run a cody rifle with a 125 tcfp and crimp in the groove which gives me a 1.445 and have never had feeding issuse's.  If it worries ya load up a small batch and run em and see what happens.

[J-BAR #18287]

Look at any loading data chart- heavier bullets use less powder because of inertia.   Lighter bullets need more powder to keep pressure where it belongs.

 

It is foolish to deviate from loading specs provided by the powder manufacturer.  They know their products characteristics better than anyone.  Please dont go off the chart; not worth the risk.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

I have been using 2.7 gr. Clays in both pistol and rifle. 125gr RNFP for pistol, 147gr TC at 1.52." for rifle. Never had a problem with KDs with pistol or rifle. Load up a few and see how your rifle feeds.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

2 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Look at any loading data chart- heavier bullets use less powder because of inertia.   Lighter bullets need more powder to keep pressure where it belongs.

 

It is foolish to deviate from loading specs provided by the powder manufacturer.  They know their products characteristics better than anyone.  Please dont go off the chart; not worth the risk.

+1 on what J-Bar said. You will likely not find a lighter bullet using less powder in loading charts.

[Oklahoma Dee]

I suggest you chronograph your loads and see where your landing in the power factor arena, also.  A lighter bullet weight with a lesser amount of powder usually decreases the power factor.

 

AMMUNITION COVENANTS Power Factors

The minimum standard for center-fire ammunition used in all smokeless categories in all SASS matches, including State, Regional, National, International, and World Championship competitions is not less than a minimum power factor of 60 and no velocity may be less than 400 fps.

 

Power factors can be calculated by multiplying the bullet weight (in grains) x the velocity (in feet per second) and then the resulting number divided by 1000.

 

 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

45 minutes ago, Shanghai said:

I finally reloaded the last of my 158 grain LRNFP  bullets and ready to start reloading 125 grains.  My load for both rifle and pistol has been 2.8  grains of clays  with an OAL of 1.475.  It’s always performed without a hitch and had great knockdown power.

 

With the new 125 grain LRNFP, I’m planning a load of 2.5 grains of clays and an OAL of 1.445.  My concern is whether I will have any feed issues with my 73 Uberti (action by Cody).  And if the 125 grain will have enough knockdown power for plates, etc.  

 

Should I increase the 1.445 OAL a bit and maybe go with 2.6 grains of clays?  I don’t want to have two separate loads (knockdown load), but I’m open to that option.  

I load 3.0 Clays in a 125 gr. TCFP crimped in the crimp groove for my rifle and pistol practice, 105 gr. TCFP for pistol in matches and 158 gr. TCFP for knock downs and Long Range.  I don't change any set-up on my press just change bullets.

 

Randy

[Shanghai]

Appreciate the good counsel.  I’ll stay within the guidelines, increase powder and COL.  I’ll make sure my crimp is solid and make a batch to shoot before going to town on the press.   Thank you all.

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

I have seen the "lighter bullet, less powder" theory tried and it just doesn't work. 

Blackfoot

[Cowboy Junky]

I'm a lighter bullet more powder fan. 4 grains of Clean shot @ 105. I used 2.7 grains of Clays years ago before I learned you could go too light and in the winter I had inconsistent ignition. That was with a 125 as well....not the 105. 

 

The clubs you attend must have awesome knockdown targets because I would be scared to death to use those loads for the knock downs around here. 

[Cliff Hanger #3720LR]

The lighter bullet requires more velocity to meet the Power Factor.

To meet the power factor of 60 the velocity of

158gr =  400'/sec = power factor of 63.20 .

125gr at 480'/sec = power factor of 60+.

 

Why do lighter bullets need more powder?

The lighter bullet has less bullet in the case.

This cause more empty space in the case requiring more powder to build equal or more pressure before the bullet jumps.

The lighter bullet will jump sooner than a heavier bullet causing the pressure to not built sufficiently to burn the powder completely.

If you use the same powder charge in a 125gr rounds as a 158gr round, the 158gr rounds will product a higher velocity.

 

As a commercial loader for 18 years, I suggest you start your 125gr using the same charge as your 158gr rounds.

Chronograph your rounds and see if they meet the Power Factor velocity minimums.

 

Power Factor Chart

 

 

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I use 3.5 grs of Tite-Group with a 125 gr bullet. Works great for me!! I also think you should up the powder a bit!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

As someone who has been reloading for over 55+ yrs I say this.

You will find variances from lot to lot of powder.

Make sure you use a firm roll-crimp, and to 'zero' your scale to be sure the charge thrown is the real amount.

I would suggest you load the 125's with at least 3.0gns.

OLG

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

I'm shocked. 16 replies and no one has told you to just load BP and use a Dillon press to do it.

[Tyrel Cody]

1 minute ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

I'm shocked. 16 replies and no one has told you to just load BP and use a Dillon press to do it.

We're evolving 

[Rye Miles #13621]

5 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

We're evolving 

Don't you mean "DE-EVOLVING"???

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

well, if you were shooting Palerider, then I cud see a concern about recoil,,,  see avatar pic,,, not that I shoot those very often.  usually use 3 of clays with 125 bullet, with heavy crimp in crimp groove

[Tully Mars]

Hey Shanghai, 

 

Slo Mo and myself use 3.0 grains of Clay's with 105, 125 and 158's with an OAL of 1.5" just as suggested by Tyrel above. All are the truncated cone.

 

If it's less recoil you're looking for the 105's are perfect. We shoot 105's at most matches and carry 125 and 158's with us.

 

The 105's will knock down most plate racks, but the larger targets on tombstone racks can be difficult. Typically we just load the 158's for KD's.

 

If you want to try some I'll get you some. 

 

Tully

[Joe Cross, SASS #13848 L]

140 grain TCFP (plain lead or coated) and 3.0 grains of Hodgdon Clays for everything. COAL is 1.442 with a medium roll crimp in the crimp groove. Runs through both my 38 spl Marlin CBCs with no hitches or hiccups. Even my 357 cowboy limited likes 'em. The only time(s) I've failed to knock over a plate is....you guessed it...I missed!

JC

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

As mentioned several times above, 2.5 grs. is well bellow the Clays minimum, as Lyman shows 2.9 as a starting load and an OAL of 1.450. I load 3.0 Clays at 1.440. Cody told me to use between 125-158 gr. bullets in my Codymatic 73. Has worked fine for 12 years. Recoil is not noticeable to me.

 

Church Key

[Jeb Stuart #65654]

23 minutes ago, Church Key, SASS # 33713 said:

As mentioned several times above, 2.5 grs. is well bellow the Clays minimum, as Lyman shows 2.9 as a starting load and an OAL of 1.450. I load 3.0 Clays at 1.440. Cody told me to use between 125-158 gr. bullets in my Codymatic 73. Has worked fine for 12 years. Recoil is not noticeable to me.

 

Church Key

If you check the Hodgdon web site for loads, you will find they list Clays at  2.5  starting and 3.5 as Max for a 125 lead bullet.

I've been shooting 2,5 clays with 125 RNFP for years.  But I shoot 3.0 Clays  160 RNfP for plate racks and Texas star.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

I believe that when he was talking about recoil, he was talking about the pistols

[Shanghai]

Wow. Great advice on loads and the dynamics of a smaller bullet.  I’m pretty confident going forward now, but I’m wondering if I should have stocked up with truncated cone bullets.  I stocked up with rnfp and hopefully they’ll cycle ok In my 73.  But should I be thinking about TC with new bullet buys?   

[Shanghai]

Yes, I’d like to reduce recoil with pistols.  I’m clean with my rifle but too many misses with the pistol.  It’s the main reason I’m changing to 125 after shooting 158 for so many years.   I need to slow down and keep on the front sight and lower recoil should help.

 

I think the two load option is best for me.  I’ll stay with 158 for knockdowns and see how the 125 recoil feels for reduced recoil.    Now I’m thinking 105s.

 

Hey Tully, next time I see you if you have a few 105s I can try, I’d appreciate it.  Thanks for the offer.  And thanks to all on this forum for helping me through this bullet change.  I’m a creature of habit so changing my old load is a big deal and you all have made me feel confident about it.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

2.9-3 gr Clays is good for me with 105, 125, 135, 147...coated Cimaron bullets.  Your 125 is probably same design as most.  I suggest to crimp just into lower edge of crimp groove making a probable OAL of 1.465" .  Don't change seater setting for other bullets works for me, even if they do not have a crimp groove.  I make default setting to the 105 to insure at least a 1.455" minimum OAL, then the 125  and other two weights take the same (but of course, may have slightly different, and longer, OAL reading).  As mentioned 105 will have less pressure so may be somewhat sensitive in cold, and also a little dirtier to cases.  For Sassy and I, 125s work great with 2.9-3.1 Clays.  I use Federal 200 primers. 

I think you will like the change to 125s and find them good straight across board with pistol and rifle.  You should rarely need the 158s.  I like 105 for both R & P but in the rifle the dirtier burning 105 often presents a distracting residue in my face when ejecting case due to lack of pressure.

[Tully Mars]

Shanghai,  We'll be at Coyote Valley tomorrow or Yolo on the 3rd. Call me, I lost your number when my phone crashed last fall.

Tully

[Shanghai]

Thank you Billy.  My first batch with the 125 will be 2.9 clays and I’ll go from there.

 

Tully, I’m planning to go to Yolo on the third if it doesn’t rain out.  My number is 415-290-9622.  My thanks.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Post was made in error-

OLG

 

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

Use Snakebites and BP, that will slow you down if that's all you are trying to do. Seems to me a less recoiling gun will speed things up, otherwise, why do it? Using a lighter bullet won't make you gun any more accurate.

[Brazos Bo]

On 1/26/2019 at 3:20 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why, do you continue to load below published minimum load data for your caliber, that's put our buy the powder maker? 

You would be better served with 3.0-3.1gn of Clays......

http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol

OLG

 

 

Hodgdon has data specifically for Cowboy Action loads that are different than standard pistol data.

[Kirk James]

The three of us follow Tulley Mars post.  The only difference is we use 147 knock downs for the large or hard to knock down plates, and 125 gr for most everything else in knock down plates.  We also seat our rounds to 1.510 to 1.520 depending on how they feed in each rifle.  1.515 is a sure thing in all 3 of our rifles.  We do reload over the top and seat our reload rounds for 1.425.  I do suggest you follow Oklahoma Dee's advice and chronograph your pistols to ensure you are within the power factor.  We set our powder throw at 3.0 and rounds are usually somewhere between 2.9 and 3.1 for Clays.  This is our favorite powder.