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Hells Comin

73 problem

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I was having a lots of trouble with my 73 this last weekend. 

Here's what I found  behind the side plates I found what  looks like lead shavings, unburned powder and particles of sand I think (I couldn't flatten them with a screwdriver. Been shooting same load of 3.1gr. Of V320 for over a year. I always cover my gun after using them. There was none of this stuff in the lifter area head space .005 ????

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What do you mean by trouble specifically?

 

Some powders are just dang dirty.  I've shot mine 1000's of rounds without disassembly and I shoot Black Powder.  You may wish to change your cleaning method to one that flushes out the action every so often.

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Need far better detail as to the '73 issues you are hav'n. Before anydangbody can really offer a solution.

 

OLG

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Telling the group what caliber your using would also help.

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One time the last  round fed into the carrier but wouldn't come up so I  just left  it, of course when I tried to clear it the round came up. Primer backed out on the 9th round pushing the case off of the bolt (NEW brass) .Glitching at the middle of strings throwing my timing off.

 

How did this stuff get under the plates in the first place  ?and where did it come from its never happened before? 

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Nada Clue.

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Bet that high primer was there, from when you loaded'em

Crap inside any rifle is SOP. Even more so when windy.

Bet the round that would not rise was to long.

How often to you clean out, the inside? How often to you clean the inside of the mag tube?

Still wait'n to hear what the caliber is.

OLG

 

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38 cal.

Tube was cleaned last week before the match. 

All rifle rounds checked for OAL.

Possibly the primer was high to start with.

Cleaned rifle about 4 weeks ago.

Hasn't been windy much but guns a covered except when shooting them.

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First thought is the new brass may be work hardened and not expanding in the. chamber.  Try using some old brass, if it solves the problem try tumbling the brass longer before using.

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Sorry not new brass but once fired starline.

I've already cleaned my rifle. 

 

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I would still look into the brass because that is a variable introduced since the problem started.

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Bet after you tumble and reload those cases. The shavings go away.

What brand is the brass? Starline??

OLG

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Sounds like some unburnt powder.  I loaded 3.6 grains of N-320 with 125 & 105 grain bullet for about 10 years  Federal GM200 primers

Had trouble with 3.0-3.2 grains leaving grit-unburnt powder.  Especially in sub 50 deg temps

Now I load 2.7 grains of Clays or clay dot with poly coated bullets

3.6-3.7 gave me about 950-1000 FPS at 80 deg.  I load 38 short colt for revolver.

 

 

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Another posibility, if you are having high moisture in your area and the powder is slightly damp.  

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Maginum primers are harder to set off.

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
20 minutes ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

Maginum primers are harder to set off.

 nope

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I did a test, 3 rifles, 10 rounds each of Federal 100, Federal 200 and Winchester. 90 rounds total. 

Each rifle dented the primer 26 to 33 percent less on 200 and Winchester. This was measured with a travel indicator. 

So not to steal a thread I disagree they are not harder. I assume the cup is thicker or the compound is denser.

 

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1 hour ago, Lefty Wheeler said:

Maginum primers are harder to set off.

No-they are not.

Bet they still went pop........

The cups are thicker-not harder.

Look at post #4, John Boy.........

OLG

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Straight walled cases don't seal as well as the bottle necked cases these guns were initially designed to use.  Powder charges react differently to cold weather reducing power and the seal to the chamber walls and allowing powder gasses and unburned grains into your action.  Get a new gun in .44-40 and use black powder and your problems will resolve. :)  Or bump up the powder charge within the allowable range from a loading manual of course.

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A different possibility: something is wearing/galling in the toggle link mechanism or firing pin extension.

 

I got very little blowback into that area with dirty old blackpowder in .38 or .45.  Since your lifter area is clean, I don’t think it is coming from the ammo.

 

edit:

 

experiment—. Clean it thoroughly. Dont use any lube on the mechanism.  Cycle it a few hundred times and open it back up and see if anymore stuff is in there.  This will point you in the direction of either wear and tear or ammo related.

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How was the weather in Yuma?  Windy?  It's possible some sand got into the action when you tabled ( if there was one )the rifle after shooting it.    Unburned powder could also be a result of a case or two not being fully crimped, or any on the reasons cited above.   

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43 minutes ago, J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE said:

Straight walled cases don't seal as well as the bottle necked cases these guns were initially designed to use.  Powder charges react differently to cold weather reducing power and the seal to the chamber walls and allowing powder gasses and unburned grains into your action.  Get a new gun in .44-40 and use black powder and your problems will resolve. :)  Or bump up the powder charge within the allowable range from a loading manual of course.

Annealing the case mouth, is a very common practice for straight wall and bottleneck cases. ;)

OLG

 

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Up your load and switch to a Marlin........you're welcome.

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Magnum primers may not be harder but they are harder to set off. One of my main Marlins has headspace issues from a very rough life of 60K plus rounds through it and it is not reliable with Federal magnums running at speed. Federal 100's it does just fine. 

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The wife and I normally run .357 1873s, but I'm also very fond of my .44-40 1873.  The .44-40 receiver does stay much cleaner than the .357s.

 

There are a couple of things you can do to keep your rifle cleaner.  If you run 105s or 125s, consider annealing your brass for a better seal.  I've also been running a 157 gr bullet in our rifle ammo with a good crimp at an OAL of 1.50 and our carriers are much cleaner.  I'm assuming that since the the 157 is a longer bullet, more of it is in the case and the powder has a little more time to burn.  When I was loading 105s or 125s at the same overall length, the carriers were much dirtier after a match. 

 

I'm using the 105s and 125s in my pistol loads crimped in the cannelure grove.  It's a PIA to have to make different loads for the rifles and pistols, but both our rifles and pistols are cleaner now.      

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

:FlagAm:

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4 hours ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Magnum primers may not be harder but they are harder to set off. One of my main Marlins has headspace issues from a very rough life of 60K plus rounds through it and it is not reliable with Federal magnums running at speed. Federal 100's it does just fine. 

Really can't blame the primers.

Have you tried a mag-primed empty case, while pushing the bolt forward?

OLG

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2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Really can't blame the primers.

Have you tried a mag-primed empty case, while pushing the bolt forward?

OLG

Yup, you'll probably be surprised but there is VERY little in this game I have not done or tried pard. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Yup, you'll probably be surprised but there is VERY little in this game I have not done or tried pard. 

 

Well-As we age, it gets easier to forget/overlook these things...... :lol:

Now-where did I put that last thought I had? :D

OLG

 

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I'm using mag primers

and I will up the charge. I did leave these loads out side over night which I don't normally do. I believe the overnight temperature was around 40° or lower. That's cold out here. Lol

 

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9 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

Isn't Marlin a fish ?

So I'm told, they say they are tough as nails and hard to kill.

 

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