Hells Comin Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Ok I have a 16" 73 and looking to load a longer AOL. Currently It has to be 1.45" + or - 2 thousandths (pita). I'm thinking about cutting 4 coils off ? It currently has 65 coils not counting the coils that go into the follower and is 17.75" long. I'm not sure if the spring is the original as I'm not the first owner. What Cha think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullett Sass 19707 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I don't know if I am answering what you are asking but when trimming the magazine spring I leave 10-12in past the end of the tube with the end cap off. Bullett 19707 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 As I read your post, I guess that the longer OAL will not allow you to load 10 rounds. I would suggest cutting a coil at a time until 10 fit. It's a little time consuming, but better to cut an extra time or two than cut too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 HC, I was using a 16" 73 today and can load full length 357's in it (10). If you want I will be at ACSA next weekend and will have it with me if you want to look at it. kR I went and measured one and it is 1.5285 and I have used some that are marginally longer. kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 If you have a 16" barrel gun, and your uncompressed mag tube spring is 17.75", you don't have the minimum length recommended to get good pressure on the column of cartridges. I usually cut a mag tube spring so at least 4" of the uncompressed spring sitting in the mag tube sticks out the muzzle end. Your inch and 3/4 (approx) "extra" length could very easily fail to shove the last cartridge out onto the carrier reliably. KR has good data that should give you a sigh of relief, though. You will probably also be able to get 10 longer cartridges in, even using a longer spring than you now have in gun. How long the cartridge length can be, you just have to try in YOUR gun. But I'd order up a new spring for mag tube and put it in. Get a stainless one. I would NOT leave a mag tube spring installed by previous owner in a gun, especially when it seems to be too short. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 37 minutes ago, Kid Rich said: HC, I was using a 16" 73 today and can load full length 357's in it (10). If you want I will be at ACSA next weekend and will have it with me if you want to look at it. kR I went and measured one and it is 1.5285 and I have used some that are marginally longer. kR Kid Rich, is your trapper '73 a Cimarron? Those are supposed to have a few proprietary parts in the mag tube: a hollow screw-in end cap, and a spring that is radically tapered on both ends so it collapses inside itself. Maybe a different follower, not sure. With my 16" '73 I can get ten .45 Colts loaded with 1.58" OAL, but it is really tight. The non-Cimarron 16" don't have those magazine parts so rounds have to be shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Kid I'll take you up on your help! I'll see you at acsa on Saturday. Thanks Garrison Joe the spring actually sticks out 2.75 if I cut off coils 4 it will give me an extra .12" when compressed, then I would stretch the spring to the correct length. With 4 less coils would the cut spring hold it length and still have enough pressure to load all 10 reliably. It's a Cimarron carbine 38sc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kid Rich Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 I've used San Juans 158g bullets in a 357 case and end up with about 1/16" to 1/8" extra room it is close but works. Abilene, its a Taylors but does have the tapered spring and I think solid end cap. One end of the spring is tapered. kR I will check the end cap when I get to ACSA next weekend kR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G W Wade Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Do not stretch a spring, will not hold GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Also the new springs in the Uberti's are stronger and the coils are more spaced out than the old ones were. The SS aftermarket are better IMO. I like about 3 inches out of the mag tube for me but I have plenty of extra room with an 18 inch gun. It won't hold 11 38's @ 1.45. On a 16 inch I'd get a good spring and cut it until you can just load 10 and leave as much as you can......it's not going to let you leave too much because it won't take all 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 12 hours ago, Hells Comin said: Kid I'll take you up on your help! I'll see you at acsa on Saturday. Thanks Garrison Joe the spring actually sticks out 2.75 if I cut off coils 4 it will give me an extra .12" when compressed, then I would stretch the spring to the correct length. With 4 less coils would the cut spring hold it length and still have enough pressure to load all 10 reliably. It's a Cimarron carbine 38sc. P, When Cim first introduced the short carbine Cody was doing a good number of 73s for my business. (I preferred to offer "race ready" 73s rather than stock.) I was writing then so to have one of these all dolled up for the CAS shooter seemed like good idea for article. He was cutting 24" 73s then for me (mostly my personal choice) so I liked the "shorty" idea. Anyway in his work on the carbine he saw to it that it would hold 10 rounds. I do not remember OAL but do not remember any stipulations. I think the first carbine he did was ready just as I was about to travel to Michigan to get new RV. I was doing articles for SHOOT magazine on my and Miss Ann's CAS travels so shooting match up there also. I had Cody ship to Fireball who lived there then so that was good place to test the uniqueness of short 73. I then had it available at a local match for handling. It was not big hit but a few were sold. Long story but yes it will hold 10. Now days I have converted most of my 73 to having inserts in magazines so have numerous springs in shop left from removal of stock and aftermarket SS springs. If you cut a spring to much and need another I will be glad to send you one of mine. If 2.75" out now then another cut will be borderline but I think it will work. If not I got a spring you are welcome to have. bb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Thanks Billy I just might take u up on that. Thanks again HC. Couple of thoughts- I only need 1/8 of an inch- so I was thinking about cutting the end plug that much and using a mild Loctite to hold it on. Another thought was to cut 4 coils off which only reduces the spring length by 3/4 is an inch. I've seen brass in caps so hollowing out the center and having the tapered end of the spring in side the cap. Lots of options some good some not . I think first I'm going to put a 1/8" spacer between the end cap and the tube before I start cutting anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Coyote, SASS #63736 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Just a question, HC. Does the mag have an insert in it & a 38 spring? DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 7 hours ago, Hells Comin said: Thanks Billy I just might take u up on that. Thanks again HC. Couple of thoughts- I only need 1/8 of an inch- so I was thinking about cutting the end plug that much and using a mild Loctite to hold it on. Another thought was to cut 4 coils off which only reduces the spring length by 3/4 is an inch. I've seen brass in caps so hollowing out the center and having the tapered end of the spring in side the cap. Lots of options some good some not . I think first I'm going to put a 1/8" spacer between the end cap and the tube before I start cutting anything. I think all those things will work. If you need a spring let me know, I'll rush it out. Buster's brass end cap (SlIx) actually has "nipple" that springs slides over but not sure that it nets being any shorter overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Enuff Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 Do both. Mill the steel cap back a bit and pocket it as far as possible to fit the spring in. I can help with that if you like. Email me fastenuffdave@aim.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 Ok a Pard here in Arizona milled the inside of the end cap to .433. The original spring has a larger od. Do any of u know what the od is of the spring that comes with the tube sleeve kit ? Or If I found a smaller od spring, would there be any issues with a smaller spring rattling around inside the tube ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSnake Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 HC, I have springs that are .375" diameter and some that are .435" diameter. Pioneer replacement spring measures about .500" diameter. I'll bring you a couple to Cowtown next week. KingSnake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted January 13, 2019 Author Share Posted January 13, 2019 25 minutes ago, KingSnake said: HC, I have springs that are .375" diameter and some that are .435" diameter. Pioneer replacement spring measures about .500" diameter. I'll bring you a couple to Cowtown next week. KingSnake Thanks But I'm shooting Yuma Territorial break out next weekend. Maybe we can meet up at cowtown on the first shoot in February. Thanks HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 On 1/6/2019 at 6:18 PM, Hells Comin said: Ok I have a 16" 73 and looking to load a longer AOL. Currently It has to be 1.45" + or - 2 thousandths (pita). I'm thinking about cutting 4 coils off ? It currently has 65 coils not counting the coils that go into the follower and is 17.75" long. I'm not sure if the spring is the original as I'm not the first owner. What Cha think? Just curious; what is the new OAL you want to use? And why? It seems like most shooters prefer shorter overall lengths and shorter, lighter bullets. Which sometimes requires modifying the carrier a bit. Wondering why you are choosing to go in the other direction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingSnake Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, Hells Comin said: Thanks But I'm shooting Yuma Territorial break out next weekend. Maybe we can meet up at cowtown on the first shoot in February. Thanks HC. I'll stick them in my guncart and have them next time I see you. KingSnake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 HC, Did you clear up the issue with 16" 73? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted February 8, 2019 Author Share Posted February 8, 2019 18 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said: HC, Did you clear up the issue with 16" 73? Yes I did thanks for asking. What I ended up doing was grind 1/8" off of the end cap and applied a small amount of blue Loctite on the threads. Ole#4 replaced the stainless steel spring and adjusted to get the last round to feed with force. Now I can load to 1.480 with room to spare. After WR I'll see how much longer AOL I can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 22 minutes ago, Hells Comin said: Yes I did thanks for asking. What I ended up doing was grind 1/8" off of the end cap and applied a small amount of blue Loctite on the threads. Ole#4 replaced the stainless steel spring and adjusted to get the last round to feed with force. Now I can load to 1.480 with room to spare. After WR I'll see how much longer AOL I can get. good deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Enuff Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 Glad you got it working. Here's some more numbers for anyone going down this road: If the cap was opened up to .435" that should work freely with a stock large diameter spring. I just measured one of my smaller sleeved spring ends and it is .367" which means it will move and compress freely in the milled cap. The cap will just become an extension of the sleeve. No need to worry about the end cap hole diameter beyond whether it fits the spring because if the spring is fully compressed the follower still won't get to it. If the cap is made to spec you can pocket it up to .29" for maximum extra spring room but you should always check with calipers to make sure so you don't get too close to the screwdriver slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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