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Rye Miles #13621

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I read the articles from Pataha and Skinny about the "newer" shoots and the "older" shoots. I can see both sides of this. I would personally like to see a compromise between the two.  Some off the clock silliness like throwing a knife, holding a money bag, etc. can be fun. I like the big close targets though, this is "CowboyAction" shooting not Cowboy Bullseye!!

 

Just my HO, what say ya'll???

 

(Yea it's wintertime):lol:

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both have good points. I have no experience with the older style shoots and props. I can see how they could slow down a big match. I am happy with todays match set ups. By the way I got my picture in this issue on page 28.

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I enjoy both and vote with my money. If I like the stages, target size, trickery, I go back, if not I find somewhere else. If I had time to help in such matters I would definitely gravitate toward older stuff with aerial targets, occasional small targets, bonus targets, reloads, before the beep steer wrangling, whiskey drinking, ect. It's also a hoot to watch fast shooters banging out 10 second stages and it is nice to let my guns run without fear of missing (and miss anyway.) I don't have time to help, barely time to show up once a month or even once a year sometimes, so I don't complain either way.

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We attended an annual match back around 2002 or 2003 that was the club's 10th annual match.  Each stage was one from each of the club's previous 10 years.  The round counts were odd, not all guns were used on all stages, there was LOTS of on the clock goofy stuff (especially in the early years) and on one stage at least 2 posses were backed up behind the one that was shooting.  It was really fun for us, having been somewhat new to the game, to experience what had gone on in the earlier years.  Most liked it but some didn't.....not even a little bit.  There was one comment that I'll never forget.  One shooter was pretty outspoken in their view and said they didn't like it because it didn't "showcase their shooting skills".  A few others that did not like it, did not complain so much about the non-shooting stuff on the clock, but did comment that they wanted more shooting as opposed to a round count that may have only had 7 rifle rounds, the use of only one pistol and maybe only one or two shotgun rounds.    
At one club that we shot at back around that same time, it would not have been unusual to begin laying or sitting cross-legged on the ground.  I would not enjoy that today though.  I enjoy the use of props and movement.  Retro matches or a retro stage at a monthly match seem to be making a comeback and I would enjoy that as well.  

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Have not read it yet, just saw the Southern Missouri Rangers photo on the front cover and inside story. I think what I have seen from years ago compared to today is that yesteryear the stages were a lot more fun due to more imagination into the stories and the stages. Was a lot more challenge with rifle targets out around 50 yards and bonus 100 or so yards. Also smaller but, there is a lot of fun with the much larger targets. That was the most complaints from back then was the target sizes. It was fun shooting the rifle targets with your last pistol shot for bonus out around that 50 yard mark. Shooting from the second story of the motel, running down the stairs and shooting through windows, out of cast iron tubs, moving toy horses, all kinds of things. But today with more into the HOLY POWDER and making more smoke sure a lot of fun. It's all how you perceive the game and your attitude on having fun. One thing I see that has not changed is the Cowboy Friendship you will find. Sure there will always be spoiled eggs everywhere you go, but they don't last long like their stench. It has always been about having fun and being with great Cowboys and Cowgirls.

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I like both, and put on matches with both.  Granted, we only shoot on 5th weekend days.  But folks really enjoy the change of pace from the "norm". 

 

To some degree, the game has sort of fallen into a rut - which is one of the reasons I stopped in 2010 and took a 7 or 8 year break.  There's only so many ways to do what we do, and finding ways to throw in a few stages that are different brings a lot entertainment.  Just don't do it mind games and really complicated sweeps.

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I have often wondered why we don't do more of the 'stuff' that we used to do during side match day.

 

I am one of those that will shoot warm up matches and such, but tend to avoid the speed side matches unless I need to work the jingle out of a gun after a rebuild.

 

That being said...

 

I have done cut the rope at GA and TN state shoots. That was a hoot.

 

Why don't more clubs have tomahawk throws, bow and arrow shoots,and the like during side match day?

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I really like the way  clubs such as Eldorado and many of the Arizona clubs let you know when they are going to add in the "old ways".  Lets you know whether you want to make the drive or not.  I personally do not enjoy carrying bags of gold, stabbing and throwing things but completely respect others feeling different and putting on matches that are different.  Every once and while I will sign up for matches that do add the "old ways".   Would rather they be off the clock as RM suggested.  Right now most of the matches in AZ are getting ready for Winter Range which is greatly appreciated.  Happy New Year everyone!!!!

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9 hours ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

. By the way I got my picture in this issue on page 28.

Which one in that crowd is you?

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9 minutes ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

I am the first guy on the right, tall, tan britches 

Cool.  Now maybe I’ll recognize you if we’re ever at the same shoot!

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Doc Shapiro will never live down the prone 10 shot carbine stage he designed using the 100+ yard gong at Waldorf, MD or the 16 shotgun knockdown stage at the same club in 2001 or thereabouts. They made up for the unusual stages by having great food. Remember fresh fried perch one day, and roast beef, mashed potato's, green beans, etc. another day. Their clubhouse catered to weddings on Saturday and we got the leftovers the next day at the Sunday match. The whole neighborhood is now town houses and condo's plus a semi-pro baseball stadium. I miss it.

 

A club on the Eastern Shore was Duelist Only, and had some math or language problems thrown in during the live stages; again early 2000 or so. Minute + stages were not unusual.

 

Church Key

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1 hour ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

I am the first guy on the right, tall, tan britches 

Yer gonna be sporting some fairly georeous  Ruger Bisleys in the not to distant future, I understand, along with the tall tan britches.

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The game evolves. People want to dump 24 rounds as fast as they can, looking for clean stages with times in the teens, and that translates into big, close targets with minimum movement and no "silly stuff". I can't remember the last time I had to carry a rag dummy over my shoulder, or a bag of "gold", or throw a knife/axe/lasso. It was fun, but I can live with the evolution. I never have been, nor ever will be, a top contender - high 20's is asgood as it gets, and even that not very often. :D

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Where is the link on the SASS email to go to the Chronicle,,,danged if I can find it..I have been called blind before...I'II  be right there sweetie :D

 

Just realized I might be confusing myself [ which ain't hard ]..the email was the SASS bulletin so it wouldn't have a link but can someone refresh me as to how many times a year [ and the months ] that there is a PDF link for the Chronicle....thanks

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3 hours ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

Where is the link on the SASS email to go to the Chronicle,,,danged if I can find it..I have been called blind before...I'II  be right there sweetie :D

 

Just realized I might be confusing myself [ which ain't hard ]..the email was the SASS bulletin so it wouldn't have a link but can someone refresh me as to how many times a year [ and the months ] that there is a PDF link for the Chronicle....thanks

I was going to ask the same question...where does one get the chronicle?

 

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43 minutes ago, Lunger Dan said:

I was going to ask the same question...where does one get the chronicle?

 

Here is the link to the online version.  https://www.sassnet.com/CCArchive.php  The link is located on the SASS homepage, right side, about 1/3 of the way down.

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4 hours ago, Lunger Dan said:

I was going to ask the same question...where does one get the chronicle?

 

Mine came in the mail just yesterday, so yours probably will come soon.  .

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I love to shoot, especially the guns we use for this game. So i'm happy to be at the range no matter how the targets are set up. I understand that at a larger match you need to keep the line moving so there's little time to spare for the silliness of roping a steer or throwing a knife at a straw bale but I enjoy those little things too. I'd love to see more of it at the monthly matches. I Think it was my first match ever (2006ish with the tusco long riders) They had a paring knife (or you could use yours) At the buzzer you had to pick up and throw the knife at a straw bale. If it stuck it was a 5 second bonus. That was a good time. Still not sure if it was just the stages or the cowboys but I was hooked. 

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On 1/1/2019 at 8:54 AM, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I read the articles from Pataha and Skinny about the "newer" shoots and the "older" shoots. I can see both sides of this. I would personally like to see a compromise between the two.  Some off the clock silliness like throwing a knife, holding a money bag, etc. can be fun. I like the big close targets though, this is "CowboyAction" shooting not Cowboy Bullseye!!

 

Just my HO, what say ya'll???

 

(Yea it's wintertime):lol:

I’m with you Rye, there should be room for both. Part of the problem is a lack of understanding and acceptance of different  preferences from both camps.

 

You see that lack of understanding all the time, it’s reflected in comments like ‘I’m just here to have fun’ as if the top shooters aren’t.  Or the statement that top shooters don’t like movement because it ‘slows them down.’ It’s been my experience that top shooters may not like inserting an element of chance into the game, or non shooting activities that could determine who wins, like having to throw a tomahawk at a barrel and have it stick. Turkey Flats post above is a perfect example of that. Include that in a match around here and whether the knife stuck or not could easily determine who wins, not shooting skill, not hours of practice, not focus during the stage. For Cowboys who put in untold hours and tens of thousands of rounds of practice that’s a tough pill to swallow. For the shooter who comes out once or twice a month it may not matter.Sure throw stuff, but off the clock, no bonuses and no penalties.

 

I don’t think many top shooters care about movement, they know what their ‘par’ time should be on any given stage and that’s what they’re focused on. Off the clock stuff has zero impact on the outcome and I doubt many top shooters care if that’s part of a match.  

 

Small and far will impact them a lot less than it will the middle of the pack shooters.  Small and far, complicated scenarios, different patterns for pistol and rifle, those things reduce the opportunity for average shooters to stay clean and increase the gap between them and the top guys.

 

News flash, we’re all at matches to have fun, it’s just that some of us enjoy different aspects of the game than others.

 

You see the lack of acceptance in comments that imply one groups preferences aren’t ‘Cowboy’.  We’ve got a post like that right here in this thread.

 

Sure the game has changed, but I don’t believe it’s because the top shooters have forced the issue, it’s because that’s what the majority have wanted.

 

It’s not plinking, there are rules and a timer for a reason, it’s a competition like every other shooting sport out there.

 

The sooner both sides accept the validity of the other side’s preferences and work to incorporate them the happier we’ll all be with the game.

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I, personally, like to mix it up when I write stages. And I hope I'm doing that. I think props are important in that it adds to the scenario. Stage lines and storylines... definitely, they're fun. Don't just say "shooter ready", that's weak. For the most part, I keep my stories short, although I can get long-winded (when I'm crackin myself up). I do love a stand-and-deliver, burn-it-down stage and I use them frequently. Fun to see a top shooter fly through one... or screw up royally trying to. I do wish we had more facades and large props to add to the ambiance. I love going to bigger matches where the whole range is cowboy. We share a range with other disciplines and have to set up and tear down for every match (thank you set-up and tear-down crews). I am very careful to keep "chance" actions OFF the clock. A stage should not be decided by a chance action. Put some Cowboy flavor in your stages, not just IPSC in old west attire. But also, throw some "burn-it-down stages in too. Make it fun, that's why we do this.

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11 hours ago, Black Hills Barb said:

Here is the link to the online version.  https://www.sassnet.com/CCArchive.php  The link is located on the SASS homepage, right side, about 1/3 of the way down.

 

There looks to be only a PDF download version.  I don't see an online version.  ?

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1 minute ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

There looks to be only a PDF download version.  I don't see an online version.  ?

 

It opens in Chrome without downloading; at least on my machine. It is a pdf though.

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7 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I’m with you Rye, there should be room for both. Part of the problem is a lack of understanding and acceptance of different  preferences from both camps.

 

You see that lack of understanding all the time, it’s reflected in comments like ‘I’m just here to have fun’ as if the top shooters aren’t.  Or the statement that top shooters don’t like movement because it ‘slows them down.’ It’s been my experience that top shooters may not like inserting an element of chance into the game, or non shooting activities that could determine who wins, like having to throw a tomahawk at a barrel and have it stick. Turkey Flats post above is a perfect example of that. Include that in a match around here and whether the knife stuck or not could easily determine who wins, not shooting skill, not hours of practice, not focus during the stage. For Cowboys who put in untold hours and tens of thousands of rounds of practice that’s a tough pill to swallow. For the shooter who comes out once or twice a month it may not matter.Sure throw stuff, but off the clock, no bonuses and no penalties.

 

I don’t think many top shooters care about movement, they know what their ‘par’ time should be on any given stage and that’s what they’re focused on. Off the clock stuff has zero impact on the outcome and I doubt many top shooters care if that’s part of a match.  

 

Small and far will impact them a lot less than it will the middle of the pack shooters.  Small and far, complicated scenarios, different patterns for pistol and rifle, those things reduce the opportunity for average shooters to stay clean and increase the gap between them and the top guys.

 

News flash, we’re all at matches to have fun, it’s just that some of us enjoy different aspects of the game than others.

 

You see the lack of acceptance in comments that imply one groups preferences aren’t ‘Cowboy’.  We’ve got a post like that right here in this thread.

 

Sure the game has changed, but I don’t believe it’s because the top shooters have forced the issue, it’s because that’s what the majority have wanted.

 

It’s not plinking, there are rules and a timer for a reason, it’s a competition like every other shooting sport out there.

 

The sooner both sides accept the validity of the other side’s preferences and work to incorporate them the happier we’ll all be with the game.

I don’t know but trying to move forward by going backward doesn’t seem like a very good way to move forward. Like it or not our game has evolved into  a bigger, faster, closer game. We can bemoan the bigger, closer targets but fact is new shooters want that. I man the unload table at a few matches where prospective new shooters come to watch and anytime a riding a stick horse or such is the preamble to shooting the stage the potential new shooters are are all shaking their heads and laughing, hell I hate doing it myself, it’s stoopid (Phantom has this copywrited but I can’t find the  copywrited thingy).  I guarantee you that shooters like Deuce Stevens, Smokestack, Lassiter, Cody James, Sass Kicker and a whole bunch of others are still going to kick  most every bodies butts no matter what you throw in front of them. I guarantee you that if Deuce had to carry two dummies on his back while he shot the stage he’d beat 99.99% percent of us and he’d have a good laugh doing it. The same goes for all of the other good shooters.

 

Going back to the old ways may be a bunch of fun to a few of us but it ain’t much fun to a lot of us. Climbing out of a bathtub with catsup, mustard and mayonnaise and four pards helping you is not a lot of fun, except for the folks watching thinking “Oh gawd, I hope I don’t look that bad”. The ship has sailed pards, if you think bringing back the antics of the old days are what’s going to save the sport you are sadly mistaken.

 

I used to shoot at a match where they had a clothesline full of laundry, us short folks had to manipulate the laundry to shoot the targets, the tall guys got to shoot right over the top. 

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22 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

I don’t know but trying to move forward by going backward doesn’t seem like a very good way to move forward. Like it or not our game has evolved into  a bigger, faster, closer game. We can bemoan the bigger, closer targets but fact is new shooters want that. I man the unload table at a few matches where prospective new shooters come to watch and anytime a riding a stick horse or such is the preamble to shooting the stage the potential new shooters are are all shaking their heads and laughing, hell I hate doing it myself, it’s stoopid (Phantom has this copywrited but I can’t find the  copywrited thingy).  I guarantee you that shooters like Deuce Stevens, Smokestack, Lassiter, Cody James, Sass Kicker and a whole bunch of others are still going to kick  most every bodies butts no matter what you throw in front of them. I guarantee you that if Deuce had to carry two dummies on his back while he shot the stage he’d beat 99.99% percent of us and he’d have a good laugh doing it. The same goes for all of the other good shooters.

 

Going back to the old ways may be a bunch of fun to a few of us but it ain’t much fun to a lot of us. Climbing out of a bathtub with catsup, mustard and mayonnaise and four pards helping you is not a lot of fun, except for the folks watching thinking “Oh gawd, I hope I don’t look that bad”. The ship has sailed pards, if you think bringing back the antics of the old days are what’s going to save the sport you are sadly mistaken.

 

I used to shoot at a match where they had a clothesline full of laundry, us short folks had to manipulate the laundry to shoot the targets, the tall guys got to shoot right over the top. 

I’m not sure why you quoted my post Yul. I didn’t say anything about going backward. I certainly didn’t bemoan big and close targets (I like them).  I’ve never ridden a stick horse and have no plans to start. I pretty much said what you did in terms of top shooters being able to deal with whatever is thrown their way.

 

What I did say is that I think it would be good for the game if we gave others room to enjoy the aspects of the game they like, remembering that at it’s heart it’s a shooting competition with a bit of western fantasy thrown in.

 

I go to matches to shoot as fast as I can, but I can still enjoy our Kings of Kaboom smoking things up. I can still enjoy saying ‘You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie’ then dropping packages and blazing away. I certainly don’t mind a storyline nor do I mind the occasional small far target.

 

Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else or your post is meant to agree with mine, but as I read it you’re rebutting an argument I never made.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I’m not sure why you quoted my post Yul. I didn’t say anything about going backward. I certainly didn’t bemoan big and close targets (I like them).  I’ve never ridden a stick horse and have no plans to start. I pretty much said what you did in terms of top shooters being able to deal with whatever is thrown their way.

 

What I did say is that I think it would be good for the game if we gave others room to enjoy the aspects of the game they like, remembering that at it’s heart it’s a shooting competition with a bit of western fantasy thrown in.

 

I go to matches to shoot as fast as I can, but I can still enjoy our Kings of Kaboom smoking things up. I can still enjoy saying ‘You gonna pull those pistols or whistle Dixie’ then dropping packages and blazing away. I certainly don’t mind a storyline nor do I mind the occasional small far target.

 

Perhaps you meant to respond to someone else or your post is meant to agree with mine, but as I read it you’re rebutting an argument I never made.

I am agreeing with you. What I trying to get across is if we go back to the old ways where all of us old guys have to do stuff we can’t do anymore it ain’t going to be much fun. Story lines are fun as are starting lines but some of the other stuff ain’t. I’ve gone to matches where they had the old school stuff and if you physically couldn’t do it you were risking injury and in some cases ridicule because you didn’t want to attempt it. I know it’s a hoot for some folks to watch somebody try to do something they can’t do, but I don’t think it’s funny. How many potential shooters today ever rode a stick horse? When they watch us do it their thinking OMG I’d like to play the game but I’m not doing that stuff.

 

I get the carrying gold bags and stuff off the clock but when you have stuff on the clock that doesn’t take into account certain participants limitations then I believe it’s a problem. No matter how hard we practice we won’t be able to compete with younger more fit competitors. Doing away with age based categories like the writer of the editorial suggests will eliminate a lot of participants, IMHO.

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I just got the issue today.  I've never shot a match, am a new sass/cas member.  Have been to a couple local matches.  Now, that being said, My wife and I both love shooting, love cas, and go practice on blm land weekly.  We have our sixes, a rossi, and a Stoeger.  We even bought our own timer. (really neat). We use a AR500 dueling tree and squash for the shot gun.  We make up lines to say, then BEEP!!!!
As to the articles;  There are so many categories that we threw our hands in the air and said, "Let's just show up with guns and let them tell us what cat were shooting.

Too much diversity has led to major confusion, and If I wanted to do all that reading, making charts of what I liked, I'd still be an accountant.  As it is, I am not.

I like the "Shoot what ya brung idea."  Personally, the top guys should compete amoungst them selves if it has to a mano a mano thing.  I'm no spring chicken, (52) and cant see myself climbing out of a tub, (and I teach martial arts) but I do like the idea of off clock shenanigans, ie. knife throwing, etc. as long as its just fun.  I like the idea of what ya brung shoot as fast as ya can at big targets, that's fun too.  Mostly I could care less what other's times are, but will congratulate them and be happy for them, but time is a competition against me.  Can I beat my last time.

So we take our steel and a few hundred rounds out to the blm and we make up our stories.

When the weather warms up we'll get to the club, but it's way too cold that early in the day.

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Folks make much about the "riding a stick horse".... I've seen it done TWICE!  IIRC, @ a monthly match and once @ EOT, 1990.

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I'll bet that if you asked any of the folks that actually participated, while they might have been initially embarrassed... the actual doin' was anti-climatic.  Yeah, it took a bit of physical coordination, some of us mighta had a spot of trouble... probably no more than when we were six years old and doin' it for the first time!

 

We used to climb on and off our wooden horses also.  And, if you weren't confident in your ability to do so, we said just stand next to the horse and shoot the targets.  We also didn't have 35 or more categories...  And while my friend pictured above might be lacking a vest for Classic Cowboy, it was 12 years into the future!  I believe there was a contest & prize for "Best Working Cowboy" costume worn while shooting, and competition for it was tough!

 

My point is, that the folks that had the physical ability to do those things, did them, those that didn't, didn't... and NO ONE thought less of them for the not doin'.   The Senior category didn't arise until 1989, and my records first show a Senior Lady winner until 1998.  Does that mean that age category wasn't out playing and shooting before then?  No,  they were, and it was pretty nice to recognize them too.  

 

I will say this, and as harsh as it may sound, it is a truth... there has always been a physical aspect to this game... and those with the best physical attributes have always excelled, and if we're truthful with ourselves, we all like those aspects of the game that our abilities take a shine to.  My knees don't like those stages that include even a 10 yard dash, especially if it includes any sudden stops.  And those that have shot with me, will have heard me saying as I walk from one position to the next... "this is me running at full speed", and when I stop, "... and sliding to a stop like a 2nd base runner..."  And my stage times reflect that ability.  Upstairs the 35 year old kid that started in this game loves those stages... but the 68 year old reality doesn't so much.

 

Others have talked about other sports they've played... well... when I was young it was speed-skiing... 125mph over water was nuttin'!   Right up until the time I had a wreck.  I'd fallen at those speeds before, but never involving anyone or anything else... 4 weeks later & I was up and at it again.  But, I wasn't quite the "thumbs up 'til the boat ran out of throttle" skier I had been before... 

 

Frankly, I think folks make more out of the "old school" shoots than there actually was.  I will acknowledge that Seniors today tend to finish higher up in the overall than they might have "back in the day"... And that is a reflection on how less physical the game is today vs yesterday. I know a couple of Elder Statesmen that are in better physical shape than this Silver Senior, and... quite frankly... if I'd known I was gonna live this long I woulda taken better care of myself!

 

Get over your broken-down selves, and quit acting like a bunch of old-folgies... 

 

Ok, and at least once in CO.

WSJarticle.jpg

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I started shooting cowboy matches in 1997 and joined SASS in 2000.   Based on what I have seen in New England the "old school" shoots are gone and they are not coming back.   Yes, there may be a few clubs still able or willing to shoot the "old school" matches around the country, but they are the exceptions.

 

The age of the average SASS shooter is going up in the Northeast as shooters move away, are no longer physically capable of shooting or die and many of the remainder are not capable of getting out of bathtubs, laying on the ground or getting on top of a horse without help.

 

The average shooter wants the targets big and close and the last time I went to a match where the targets were smaller and farther out like they used to be, the majority of shooters were unhappy and stated they would not be going back to that club.

 

The competitive shooters don't feel it is fair (and I agree with them, even though I am no longer a  competitive shooter) that random chance should play a factor in the scores, so things like throwing a knife or shooting a bow or trying to cut a rope have disappeared.

 

I think that  "big & close & fast" will remain the standard match for SASS for the foreseeable future and any attempt to go back to the "old school" shoots will drive away far more shooters then it will attract.

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39 minutes ago, Chantry said:

I started shooting cowboy matches in 1997 and joined SASS in 2000.   Based on what I have seen in New England the "old school" shoots are gone and they are not coming back.   Yes, there may be a few clubs still able or willing to shoot the "old school" matches around the country, but they are the exceptions.

 

The age of the average SASS shooter is going up in the Northeast as shooters move away, are no longer physically capable of shooting or die and many of the remainder are not capable of getting out of bathtubs, laying on the ground or getting on top of a horse without help.

 

The average shooter wants the targets big and close and the last time I went to a match where the targets were smaller and farther out like they used to be, the majority of shooters were unhappy and stated they would not be going back to that club.

 

The competitive shooters don't feel it is fair (and I agree with them, even though I am no longer a  competitive shooter) that random chance should play a factor in the scores, so things like throwing a knife or shooting a bow or trying to cut a rope have disappeared.

 

I think that  "big & close & fast" will remain the standard match for SASS for the foreseeable future and any attempt to go back to the "old school" shoots will drive away far more shooters then it will attract.

What the big close targets drive away, is any chance sass will have in getting new younger shooters.  

   If you cater to the old less mobile crowd you will not gain new young shooters.   Health, fitness, physically demanding sports are what is in fashion right now. Quite honestly if it wasn't for my love of single action revolvers I never would have joined sass. Standing in one spot just isn't fun.   Stages where you take three steps total isn't fun.  

    Sass has made it's choice and they want to so the big close.  It's just stupid that people keep pissing and moaning about not attracting new shooters when it's obvious why they aren't coming

    

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33 minutes ago, evil dogooder said:

What the big close targets drive away, is any chance sass will have in getting new younger shooters.  

   If you cater to the old less mobile crowd you will not gain new young shooters.   Health, fitness, physically demanding sports are what is in fashion right now. Quite honestly if it wasn't for my love of single action revolvers I never would have joined sass. Standing in one spot just isn't fun.   Stages where you take three steps total isn't fun.  

    Sass has made it's choice and they want to so the big close.  It's just stupid that people keep pissing and moaning about not attracting new shooters when it's obvious why they aren't coming

    

No offense intended but I think it’s overly simplistic to attribute a decline in younger shooters to target size and distance. 

 

I don’t know that it’s been established that there’s even been such a decline in the first  place and even if there has there are quite a few things that could be contributing. 

 

Western movies are not as prevalent as they once were, the same for western TV shows.

 

It’s an expensive game. Upfront costs to put a shooter on the range with top notch gear can easily reach $4,500, not counting reloading equipment. Yes I know you can buy cheaper and used, but if you want Rugers, a tuned Uberti, an SKB and a good rig you’re going to pay what amounts to serious bucks for many people.

 

It’s a time consuming game. You can spend an entire day on the range to get in two minutes of shooting. For some of us that’s a feature, but for others it’s a bug.  This aspect doesn’t get mentioned much but I think it can be a huge factor for the younger crowd. When my 13 year old’s participation started to decline this was the reason he gave. He didn’t want to spend the whole day standing around watching other people shoot. 

 

Cell phone reception at many ranges is practically nonexistent. For today’s perpetually connected youth this is also a huge deal. To me it’s a chance to slip my tether, for him it’s being cutoff from what his friends are up to.

 

If I could wave a magic wand in hopes of improving youth participation in SASS I would turn six hour matches into two hour matches, while preserving the fellowship many of us enjoy, and add more action to the match while still providing stages that our more infirm shooters could shoot.  I think those two things matter a lot more than target size and distance.

 

Unfortunately I don’t know if those things are doable.

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1 hour ago, evil dogooder said:

What the big close targets drive away, is any chance sass will have in getting new younger shooters.  

  Standing in one spot just isn't fun.   Stages where you take three steps total isn't fun.  

 

There is more movement now than when I started.  When I started most stages were stand and deliver from one spot, with a minimum of movement.

 

As for not attracting younger shooters, I see two big reasons:

First, to get started in SASS now costs a lot more money then 20 years ago.   Even buying used guns it will run in excess of $2000 for just guns and leather.

Second, most of the original members grew up watching westerns or had a parent that watched westerns.   Now they grow up watching action movies or war movies and when they begin to shoot competitively they gravitate to the shooting sports that most resembled the movies they watched growing up.

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