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Newbie pistol advice...


Croc Holiday

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Hey All!  Hoping some of you might share your wisdom with a newbie.

 

I’m shoppin’ for pistols and I’m torn between a pair of Vaqueros and Evil Roy’s.  I’ve done my research and made it to a couple of shoots to try things and talk to folks.  I got to try the Vaqueros.  I liked them a lot and did well with them.  I also like the reliability and availability of parts.  I have handled a Evil Roy in a shop and like the feel but I have not had a chance to shoot one.  Just haven’t seen them at the range yet.  But, reviews are fantastic and I like that they come tuned right out of the box.  They also cost no more or even a little less than stock Vaqueros.  I wonder about long term durability of the Roy’s.  Being newer they don’t have the 15-20 years as someone’s main match guns like Rugers do.  But I’m new and may not have found that info yet.

 

Another question is Blued vs. Stainless.   I really prefer the look of blued but hear blued is harder to keep clean and can look a little shabby from holster wear.  I’m on the fence about how I feel about that.  I like shiny and pretty but would some worn spots look cool too?  I kinda think so.

 

So what say you fine SASS folks?  Any input would be very appreciated!

 

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

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For traditional (both hands on gun) shooting I prefer Vaquero's.

 

For Duelist/Double Duelist/ gunfighter I prefer Colt/Uberti/Pietta or even better open tops.  But my hands are smallish and these just fit better.

 

I like the blued look better and don't worry about holster wear at all. I also shoot black powder most of the time and stainless looks dirtier by the end of a match.

 

 

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I just prefer Vaqueros. 

 

After having tried stainless, I went back to blued.  In the sun, you can get a nice glare off the top of stainless guns.  I used to use a lighter to cover the top of the gun with soot, but that got old quick.

 

That said, try 'em all and get what you like.

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I know the common response is "don't buy until you can handle/shoot them". That isn't always possible or practical. I carried 4 different handguns across the span of my career. It seemed that with enough practice they all worked fine even though they felt very different. I too am on the fence about what revolvers to buy. Rugers? Colt clones? Remington clones? They all seem to have pluses and minuses and everyone seems to have his or her favorite. I DO love reading these threads as I save my pennies though. 

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Either choice will provide you with a serviceable handgun.  Be aware that while the Evil Roy's have some work done on them they may not be considered competition ready by many shooters.  There is another Ruger available to you as well depending on the class you wish to shoot and that is the Blackhawk.

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If you can shoot almost any pair of Uberti or Pietta SAs, you'll know what the Evil Roy's feel like as far as the frame is concerned. 

 

I've never shot a pair of Evil Roy tuned pistols but I've handled several sets of Uberti and Pietta SAs tuned by some top 'smiths. Just like with Ruger's, who does the tuning makes a big difference in feel. 

 

Need to figure out whether you prefer the size/weight of the Ruger's or the Colt/ clones. 

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1 hour ago, Half Deaf Hoss Deveraux said:

....  I wonder about long term durability of the Roy’s.  Being newer they don’t have the 15-20 years as someone’s main match guns like Rugers do.  But I’m new and may not have found that info yet...

 

Howdy HDHD.  Worry not.  If you are familiar at all with Evil Roy you will know how much he espouses dry-firing and live fire practice.  He switched from Rugers only after he determined that a properly setup Uberti would be reliable.  A few years ago I was at Cimarron when he returned the first set of ER guns (his, Wicked Felina's, and Holy Terror's) that he had gotten in 2003.  Those guns were pretty ratty looking, and rattled some, at this point but a VERY rough estimate on the low side would be well over a million cycles per gun.  A letter he sent with them said that in all that time he had broken one bolt spring.

 

Rugers are fine, too, but different.  Either would be good for CAS.

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Well, let's see...

 

Colt/Clones  All barrel lengths from 3 to 12 inches.

Remington 1875

Remington 1858

S&W New Model 3

Schofield

Nagant

Merwin & Hulbert

Colt 1860

Colt Walker

Colt Dragoon

 

I own a good cross section of SASS Main Match type pistols.  But not all of them.   You will notice that the Ruger is conspicuously absent from list.   Now, don't get me wrong, the Ruger is an EXCELLENT gun no matter how you slice it.   It just doesn't appeal to me, personally.   I don't know why, it just doesn't.   In other words, event though I don't own one, I have fired one, and have shot a match with one. 

 

In the end, having tried just about everything, and still using them all on occasion, my hands down favorite remains the Colt and it's clones.    But that's me.   In the end, you need to use what you like, and from your initial post, you like the Ruger.  Given that reality, I'd suggest you go in that direction.   One thing that can happen once you get into this game is that your gun collection can grow exponentially, so keep that in mind!

 

As far as barrel length and finish go, that is very much a matter of personal preference.  I've got things that are blued, nickeled, badly chromed, faded to gray, gold (a commemorative .22), all in various conditions from like new to looking really ugly, but they all work.   To be honest, for me, none of it matters.   And in spite of a large collection, I can say that I really only have 1 truly "matched pair" of pistols.   By that I mean 2 with the same finish, barrel length, sights, caliber and where the actions are nearly identical function wise.    Some of my other pairs are very similar to each other, but not to the point where they can be considered matched.   It doesn't bother me.    Am I a top shooter?   No...   Would I be better if I had a matched pair?   I honestly don't believe so.   Do I have fun?  Absotively!

 

That's the best advice I think you can get.  Shoot what you like and have fun.   Performance will either come to you with practice and experience, or it won't.   But you can still enjoy yourself.   So in the end, get pistols that you consider to be enjoyable to shoot.  

 

Oh, by the way, some of my Colts and S&W's date back to the 1880's and they still work.   I'd call that pretty reliable.  :)

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I started with Evil Roys 6 years ago & shot them for about 6 months before moving to Ruger New Vaqueros. I only made the move because most of the fast guys I was shooting with seemed to favor the Vaqueros & because it was an excuse to buy some new guns. My opinion is that the Rugers are "forever" guns & don't break. I had a couple of issues with the Evil Roys in the 6 months I shot them. One came from the factory with an incorrect cylinder base pin that almost fit. So, it would kinda lock up & then after shooting a few stages, the pin would move & I'd have a jam. After sending it off to two different smiths I finally figured it out myself. Also, I had an ejector rod break. But, even with that I feel they are good guns & you can save a lot of money if you like them over buying Rugers & then having them slicked up. I like both the blues & the stainless, but prefer stainless for cleaning up. If you use chrome polish like Flitz, you can make them look brand new anytime you want.

 

Evil Roys or Smokewagons will serve you well, whichever is available first. My preference is stainless Rugers in 38 special (357). I wouldn't buy the SASS versions, as I shoot two handed & prefer the Blackhawk style hammers, as opposed to the Montados that the SASS versions come with. I've bought 3 sets of Ruger NMV 38's & 1 set of NMV 32's, all stainless. I know there are lots of great gunsmiths, but Jimmy Spurs is my pistol guy. They come set up right the first time, & they never break. I have enough imperfections myself to put up with any letdowns by my equipment, so I only buy stuff that I believe is the best I can get. Opinions vary on the best gunsmiths, & we all have our "go-to" smiths for rifles, pistols, & shotguns.

 

I don't think you can make a bad decision from the alternatives you are considering. Good luck!

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Howdy,

Maybe buy one of each. Shoot em until you decide which is to your liking.

Buy one more of your favorite.

Keep the odd one as a backup in case one fails.

As to stainless vs blue I like em both.

Stainless is a little easier to live with for me.

Best

CR

 

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I'm going to go out on a limb here and give you an opinion that is probably not well liked.  

 

There isn't a gun that you can buy for use in this game that won't be improved by some workin' over.    Colt's need timing and some spring work, Colt clones need timing, springs and some might need a couple parts hardened for longevity.  Rugers need some spring work...  and you'll find examples of them all that need more, or less work than the above.  

 

IMO, there is ONE factor that should determine your choice.  And that's simple ergonomics.  Which gun feels BEST to you in hand.  Which when held down at your side comes up to the eye most naturally... Which doesn't require adjustments to the grip or your hand to be sighting down the sights?  EVERY THING else can be fixed by a good gunsmith.  Somethings can be fixed by an end user with a modicum of mechanical ability... 

 

I've shot Colt's in this game from day one... 33 years ago now.  They've been rebuilt once, and have had numerous parts replaced... The only parts that are original are the frames, hammers, triggers, loading gates, barrels, grips, screws, ejector rod & housing, along with that spring, one retains its original cylinder pin retainer, and both retain their factory, if recontoured front sights!  Nothing on those two guns failed at the same time, and nothing that stopped from wanting to get them fixed.

 

I ain't fast, I ain't competitive (except with myself), but, I know what I like.  My son has a pair of clone's that have been built by one of the best gunsmiths in the country... and they are very nice... If I couldn't shoot my Colt's, then his are probably next... by the slim margin that they're, like my guns, in 45 Colt.  Whereas my wife's Colt sixguns are in .357/.38...  Her's haven't required near the fixin' that mine have... but she's not near as tough on stuff as I seem to be... 

 

Everybody likes to say Rugers are indestructible... but that's not quite true.  Are they tough?  Yeah, sure, but indestructible?  NOT!  They'll break also... And the more abuse they see, the quicker they'll break.  Cowboy action shooting, done at the top level of this game, IS abuse.  I don't care what you think, when you're shooting 50-60 THOUSAND rounds of ammo annually in practice, add in some dry firing practice and you will quickly realize that shooting the matches is by far the easiest duty your six guns will endure!

 

Now, back to ergonomics... if you find a gun that fits your hand, shape, style and actual alignment with your eyes will reduce the amount of fight you put out against your equipment.  If you have to continually adjust the gun within your grip you'll be fighting the gun, which negates the smoothness of the gun, having a trigger that lines up with your finger in such a way that your pulling the trigger induces no side pressure, means you're not fighting the gun.  If you're not fightin' the gun, you can concentrate on the sights and everything else.

 

And yes, IMO, that all translates to the rifle and shotgun also.    Enjoy the search for your "perfect" six gun! 

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Hoss,

Lots of good advice here,guess I'll  add my 2 cents. Shoot what feels best to you; for me that was a pair of Evil Roy's in .45 Colt.I bought them from, and tunedby Griner Gun Works.They were my first CAS pistols(buy once cry once)and I  couldn't  be happier with them.Hope to find another pair,maybe Smoke Wagons or Runnin' Irons ,for a backup pair.

Everyone has different tastes so choose what suits yours

Choctaw Jack

 

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5 hours ago, Griff said:

 

IMO, there is ONE factor that should determine your choice.  And that's simple ergonomics.  Which gun feels BEST to you in hand.  Which when held down at your side comes up to the eye most naturally... Which doesn't require adjustments to the grip or your hand to be sighting down the sights? 

 

And yes, IMO, that all translates to the rifle and shotgun also.    Enjoy the search for your "perfect" six gun! 

Ta Daaaa!!:D what Griff and company said. Try out any tuned Uberti with checkered grips (Smoke Wagons, Cattleman, Model P...etc)  this will get close you close to the feel of the Colt style replica. Another good Colt style by Pietta is the EMF Great Western II and Cimarron Frontier. Good Luck.:)

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I have both original Vaquero in 45, New Vaquero in 357. Both are stainless. I paint the front sight with a  few coats of Testors Flat Black then mark the back of the sight with gold leaf. Make sure you wipe down the grips with oil to remove the sweat as stainless will color red (rust). I also have a blued clone in 44/40. The easiest to shoot is the New Vaquero in 357. To clean I drop the guns in a 50 caliber ammo can with Ed's Red. The stainless can stay there for an extended period while the blued guns need to be removed the next day as the solvent tends to lift the blue over an extended time. Blow dry with air and run a few patches thru the cylinder and bore. Done guns are cleaned and oiled.

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hmmmmmmmmm....... methinks, if'n yer like the bunch of us yer trying to select yer FIRST pair of pistols.

 

I might or might not be sort of typical -- I've sold 2 pr. SASS shooters and only have 2 pr. left -- but -- these includes my trusty .41s 

 

to a great extent, recommending pistols is worse than recommending neck ties

 

of course, for a Black Tie Event, ya gotta have----- a black tie.    so-- maybe I could recommend a black tie in that event   ( tee hee )

 

my first thought is get a pair of 5 1/2 inch Vaqueros in .38 special.    kinda like a black tie; ya really can't go wrong.    

 

and on yer  first pair of pistols ya really don't wanna go wrong

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The vast majority of SASS shooters shoot Rugers. I have Vaqueros set up by Jimmy Spurs, my wife has Single Sixes with Wolff springs as does my youngest son. My middle son has Uberti Lightning’s. The only ones that have ever broken are the Ubertis.

 

Of all the guns we shoot in SASS the ones that need the least ‘tuning’ in my opinion are Rugers. Swap in lighter hammer and trigger springs and a heavier base pin spring and you’re pretty much ready.  Not that I don’t love my Jimmy Spurs revolvers, they’re fantastic, but not as important as having your rifle and shotgun worked on by an expert.

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Thanks tons for all the input!  I really appreciate it.

 

Being new, I know for sure I’ll have fun no matter what and that I’ll love whatever I end up getting.  My main goal is getting quality out of the gate and avoiding wishing I had gotten something else or wanting to replace things.  No way to guarantee it but doing what I can to avoid it.  I’m good with collecting, just not replacing haha.  Especially when I have a rifle and shotgun to get as well.

 

Some mentioned ergonomics...  that alone pushes the Vaqueros forward.  Target acquisition was totally natural for me and I didn’t even have to try to find the sights, they were just there.  Really, my hesitation is a silly one.  I tend to be... different.  I usually shy away from what everyone has and go with the odd ball.  In this case, I plan to compete so I’ll run with what works for the pack haha.  I just wish the Remington 1875 army outlaw were widely used.  Those are cosmetically my favorite.  So purdy...  definitely on the “collect” list.

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23 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well, let's see...

 

Colt/Clones  All barrel lengths from 3 to 12 inches.

Remington 1875

Remington 1858

S&W New Model 3

Schofield

Nagant

Merwin & Hulbert

Colt 1860

Colt Walker

Colt Dragoon

 

I own a good cross section of SASS Main Match type pistols.  But not all of them.   You will notice that the Ruger is conspicuously absent from list.   Now, don't get me wrong, the Ruger is an EXCELLENT gun no matter how you slice it.   It just doesn't appeal to me, personally.   I don't know why, it just doesn't.   In other words, event though I don't own one, I have fired one, and have shot a match with one. 

 

In the end, having tried just about everything, and still using them all on occasion, my hands down favorite remains the Colt and it's clones.    But that's me.   In the end, you need to use what you like, and from your initial post, you like the Ruger.  Given that reality, I'd suggest you go in that direction.   One thing that can happen once you get into this game is that your gun collection can grow exponentially, so keep that in mind!

 

As far as barrel length and finish go, that is very much a matter of personal preference.  I've got things that are blued, nickeled, badly chromed, faded to gray, gold (a commemorative .22), all in various conditions from like new to looking really ugly, but they all work.   To be honest, for me, none of it matters.   And in spite of a large collection, I can say that I really only have 1 truly "matched pair" of pistols.   By that I mean 2 with the same finish, barrel length, sights, caliber and where the actions are nearly identical function wise.    Some of my other pairs are very similar to each other, but not to the point where they can be considered matched.   It doesn't bother me.    Am I a top shooter?   No...   Would I be better if I had a matched pair?   I honestly don't believe so.   Do I have fun?  Absotively!

 

That's the best advice I think you can get.  Shoot what you like and have fun.   Performance will either come to you with practice and experience, or it won't.   But you can still enjoy yourself.   So in the end, get pistols that you consider to be enjoyable to shoot.  

 

Oh, by the way, some of my Colts and S&W's date back to the 1880's and they still work.   I'd call that pretty reliable.  :)

 

How do you like the 1875 Remington?  I love those.  Schofield are beautiful as well.  Both are on my collect list.  I hear both are fun to shoot but neither are overly fast.  True?

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49 minutes ago, Half Deaf Hoss Deveraux said:

 Really, my hesitation is a silly one.  I tend to be... different.  I usually shy away from what everyone has and go with the odd ball.  In this case, I plan to compete so I’ll run with what works for the pack haha.  I just wish the Remington 1875 army outlaw were widely used.  Those are cosmetically my favorite.  So purdy...  definitely on the “collect” list.

From what I've seen in this game, that wouldn't make you different.  Shoot whatever you enjoy shooting.  Hell, there are people out there shooting in steampunk attire and trying to get modified guns to meet SASS criteria.  Some people only shoot black powder, some only original Colts, and the list goes on and on.  If you like it and it meets the SASS rules, then bring it on out.  And if you're only shooting at your local club and not competing in SASS sanctioned events, the rules might even be a little more relaxed.  Rule # 1--If it ain't fun, don't do it! 

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6 minutes ago, Smoky Pistols said:

From what I've seen in this game, that wouldn't make you different.  Shoot whatever you enjoy shooting.  Hell, there are people out there shooting in steampunk attire and trying to get modified guns to meet SASS criteria.  Some people only shoot black powder, some only original Colts, and the list goes on and on.  If you like it and it meets the SASS rules, then bring it on out.  And if you're only shooting at your local club and not competing in SASS sanctioned events, the rules might even be a little more relaxed.  Rule # 1--If it ain't fun, don't do it! 

I was wondering if Steam Punk folks found their way to CAS.  I figured they must have.  Not the route I’d go but I like a lot of that stuff.  It’s fun and funky.  

 

I know pistol choice alone won’t make me unique.  It’s not even that I’d try to be unique.  It’s more an instinct reaction to shy from the norm.  I’ve always been that way. 

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HDH,

  Nothing wrong with Remington's if they're set up correctly. "Correctly" is the operative word meaning (to me anyway) converting the flat spring action to a coil spring action. The Remie has a very narrow frame and it was quite a challenge to figure out a coil setup for them. The '58, '75 and '90 all have flat springs. Now with a coil hand, bolt and trigger spring, (along with an action stop and a bolt block) I would say they are among the toughest S.A.s out there (watch out Rugers!! Lol!). That setup gives you a much superior action combined with the light weight of a Remington for a rather amazing package!

 

Mike

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18 hours ago, Half Deaf Hoss Deveraux said:

It’s more an instinct reaction to shy from the norm.

 

that's the beauty of Cowboy Action: you don't have to show up in a tee-shirt and shorts to shoot: you can be your own personna!

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Not sure if you pick up on it yet, but there is a big difference in the "New" vs. old Ruger Vaqueros.  Grip and size and balance overall being the most obvious.

The old RV I had to polish and tune up a bunch.  The New RV felt good right out of the box.  Someday I do want to get into and polish and change springs but that has been many years ago...

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22 hours ago, Half Deaf Hoss Deveraux said:

 

How do you like the 1875 Remington?  I love those.  Schofield are beautiful as well.  Both are on my collect list.  I hear both are fun to shoot but neither are overly fast.  True? 

 

The Remington 75 is, I consider, the most Colt like of all the not a Colt's out there.  That being said, it feels very different in the hand.  As far as operation goes, it does not slow me down or speed me up compared to the Colt.  It's a nice alternative to run on occasion.  Also, to me at least, it does not feel as "cramped" as the 58 does.

 

As far as the Schofield goes, they are very enjoyable to shoot, but they are a bit slower than the Colt.  I need to shift the pistol in my hand just a little to reach the hammer with my thumb shooting Duelist style.   Two handed shooters will tell you that you can slip hammer them. 

 

You really can't go wrong with either gun.   Although, I don't know of any top shooters using the Schofield.    Supposedly, back before I got into the game, it was common for many shooters to have a Schofield in their cart for the occasional stage that required a full on the clock reload.   I have never seen such a stage myself, and I don't know of anyone who still does that.   The quick reload would be a great advantage to any top break revolver, but it does not seem to be something that comes up in our game anymore.

 

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If you really like to be different, you may have a lot in common with Lassiter (Tom Wildenauer - Hope I spelled that right!).

 

If he hasn't changed, he shoots 7 1/2 Piettas, 1887 shotgun, & a Lighting ( I think in 45). And, he's fast!

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A word on the color.  I used to prefer stainless because it made it easier to know when I was done cleaning.  Now I prefer blued so I can be done cleaning whenever I feel like it. 

 

Either type of gun will do you fine service and you'll get used to whichever one you choose.  I guess the only advantage either has over the other is that if you get used to evil roys, you can always switch to any of a number of colt clones.  If you fall in love with those rugers, ruger might be the only thing you ever wanna shoot.  You'll have to decide for yourself whether that's an advantage for ruger or evil roy. 

 

I started out with an uberti in my left hand and a ruger in my right.  Only reason I settled on the uberti's was because my wife started shooting and she wanted the ruger. 

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Howdy, Hoss!

 

     Welcome to CAS!  

 

All the best,

Mo

 

     

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