Trail Boss Powder

[Dollar Bill Charlie]

Any loading data for Trail Boss with 45 Colt - 235 RNFP     and 245 RNFP   the manual does not show these loads

Thank you.

[Tennessee williams]

They have a formula on there for min and max loads. Has to do with case capacity etc

[Michigan Slim]

5 to 5.5 grains of Trail Boss. Any lower and cold weather ignition starts to get iffy for me.

[Spindrifter]

Hodgdon gives Trail Boss starting loads for 45 Colt of 5.5gr for a 230 gr RNFP bullet and 4.5gr for a 250gr RNFP. Those should be OK for the 5gr weight difference for your bullets.

 

I use 5.5gr of Trail Boss for a 200gr RNFP with good results.

[Old Man Graybeard]

I load 5.8 grains of trail boss in 45 colt with a 200 gr bullet...rnfp...and 5.2 grains behind a 250 gr rnfp . Has worked well for me

[Savvy Jack]

3 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

They have a formula on there for min and max loads. Has to do with case capacity etc

This is not true if they publish data for a cartridge, which they do for the 44-40 and the 45 Colt. Using that "formula" for the 44-40 will produce around 15,182psi in my testings. SAAMI max is 11,000psi

[Tennessee williams]

56 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

This is not true if they publish data for a cartridge, which they do for the 44-40 and the 45 Colt. Using that "formula" for the 44-40 will produce around 15,182psi in my testings. SAAMI max is 11,000psi

It's true according to their website that says it will be safe "for ALL cartridges", and confirmed when I called to inquire.

[TBBandito]

I have great success with 4.8-4.9 gr for my 200 gr RNFP in 45 colt. Much lower and my Bullets tumble. 

[Chief Rick]

19 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

This is not true if they publish data for a cartridge, which they do for the 44-40 and the 45 Colt. Using that "formula" for the 44-40 will produce around 15,182psi in my testings. SAAMI max is 11,000psi

What are you using to test psi in the cartridges? 

[Savvy Jack]

Rick, PM sent

[Savvy Jack]

19 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

It's true according to their website that says it will be safe "for ALL cartridges", and confirmed when I called to inquire.

I guess that's proof 15,000psi wont blow up your firearms ;-) SAAMI max is 11,000psi  The problem all of these years with harming firearms is not the occasional "over charge" but a catastrophic "double charge". Been telling folks that for years.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

I sent Hodgdon a message once through their website, asking about reloading data for a specific cartridge (don't recall which one) not matching the load determined using their universal "formula".  I did not receive an answer.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I cant justify paying 20.00 + dollars for a small amount of Trail Boss .

When I can get APP or Unique for the same price.  

Just Sayin 

Rooster 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

8 hours ago, Savvy Jack said:

I guess that's proof 15,000psi wont blow up your firearms ;-) SAAMI max is 11,000psi 

 

SAAMI (usually) picks the weakest firearm that was commonly chambered for a given cartridge to set the maximum pressure limits for the cartridge.   Thus ensuring that if factories (or reloaders) load to no more than the max pressure, that ammo will be safe in all firearm designs chambered for that cartridge.

 

You can shoot original .45 Colt Vaqueros with loads well over the SAAMI max, but you might blow up a first generation Colt SAA or maybe even a clone SAA with that same load.   Just because one gun model wasn't damaged with ammo over the SAAMI max, doesn't mean much of a darned thing.  Safety is about ALL gun models being safe to use at maximum pressures.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

[Savvy Jack]

Funny you should mention that Joe......I agree, read on...
I have been trying to tell folks that for years. Even got banned from a forum because of it. They wanted proof so when I sent them proof, I got banned!

for the 44-40

The Winchester Red labels came out on the 44WCF boxes in 1895 when Winchester loaded them with smokeless powder. The first box labels shows Winchester 73" on top and include the Winchester Model 92' on the side label.

1906 introduced label dating and modification file codes listed on the labels. The label change date code on the lower right and the file code on the lower left of the box top label. The side label (seals) also had a date code and were separate dates in nature. 

Between 1900 and 1903, the Red label smokeless loads show again the 73' on top but then eventually include both the 73' and the 92' on the top label.

At the same time, the same Red side label shows "NOT TO BE USED IN PISTOLS". Remember, these were deemed safe for both the 73' and the 92' BUT NOT THE PISTOLS indicating that the 73's action was stronger than the thin cylinder walls of some revolvers. Not necessarily Colts. As you already know there were much cheaper pistols that chambered the 44WCF that had much weaker cylinders than the better quality Colt. The Merwin and Hubbard cylinders look much thinner than Colts cylinders...just a thought.

An early 1909 era "High Velocity" box shows a faded looking top, maybe Lavender color and is printed ".44-40 Model 1892 Special", indication to be used in the Winchester Model 92 BUT does say not to be used in the 73' in small letters on the side label. I for one would never use them in the 73'...my choice. Also no mention of pistols that I know of...but keep reading....we are now talking smokeless powder frame revolvers...

 

One thought is that the powders used back then changed again during those times. Early Dupont #2 was said to have a burn rate close to [early] 4227. Later Sharpshooter's was said to have a burn rate closer to [early] 2400.

 

1903-1938 High Velocity loads were packaged in Yellow and Lavender labeled boxes. The above aforementioned leads me to believe the early box labels were Lavender while the later boxes were Yellow. An example specifically denotes NOT FOR PISTOLS on the top label and does say not to use in the 73' in the small worded paragraph on the side label. Again.  However, Lyman 49th handloading manual lists at least nine of nineteen RIFLES chambered for the 44-40 cartridge that are weak that includes the 73'. The Model 92, 94 and Marlin's 89 on up are listed as Strong Actions.

So with all of that being said, sounds to me like the real "weak link" ...and the reason for the SAAMI max of 11,000psi was the thin revolver cylinder walls of the Black Powder Framed Revolvers more than the so called "weak action" of the 73' or today's stronger smokeless framed revolvers.

Funny again...SAAMI list the 45-70's max pressure at 28,000psi and 28,000cup. But yet the max pressure advised by Lyman's 49th is 18,000cup for the Trapdoor Springfield and 40,000cup for the Ruger #1 and #3
Hey look, the 45 Colt is like that too!

[Savvy Jack]

However, looking at Lyman's 49th load data, Lyman puts those [15,000psi -18,000psi] 19,000 - 20,000 cup 44-40 loads in Group II strong action rifles only, contradicting Trailboss's recommendation. 

 

I am not arguing the strength of the firearms, just the confliction of published data and recommendations by the so called pros ;-).

[Roscoe Regulator]

11 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I cant justify paying 20.00 + dollars for a small amount of Trail Boss .

When I can get APP or Unique for the same price.  

Just Sayin 

Rooster 

I just bought Trailboss at Cabela's, and it was quite a bit less per jar than the other powders on display. For me, it is not about price comparisons at all. Trailboss offers us distinct advantages over some other choices. For me, I especially value being able to easily see a charge before placing a bullet for seating.

[Savvy Jack]

45 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I just bought Trailboss at Cabela's, and it was quite a bit less per jar than the other powders on display. For me, it is not about price comparisons at all. Trailboss offers us distinct advantages over some other choices. For me, I especially value being able to easily see a charge before placing a bullet for seating.

It is good stuff and cudos to the visual check!! I still have a 5lb container!! This is my go-to plinking powder.

[Silver Creek Jack]

Love trailboss for my 44-40 I load 5.5 gr. behind a 200 gr. rnfp. great accuracy hardly any recoil in my 66 yellow boy, no way you can double charge as it will be more than obvious, great powder, little pricey but how much is that handgun/rifle  worth your shooting not to mention your pards and your hand/arms? SCJ 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

If people think trail boss is expensive, they wouldn’t want to shoot black powder. At 35 grains per, I only get 200 rounds per pound of powder if I manage to not spill a single grain

[Dutch Wheeler]

31 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

If people think trail boss is expensive, they wouldn’t want to shoot black powder. At 35 grains per, I only get 200 rounds per pound of powder if I manage to not spill a single grain

Full- house loads, no doubt!

[Roger Rapid]

Curious as to why you want to go as heavy as 235-245g RNFP for CAS?

RR

[Dollar Bill Charlie]

Local bullet mfg. recommended - I have since changed to 180 & 200, but still have abt 100 bullets left, also just switched to Trail Boss pwd.

Also appreciate all of the comments so far.

[Roger Rapid]

DBC... To keep your recoil down you might want to try 165's for your pistol and 185s for your rifle (if I had my preference, I'd use 165s in both, but I need the length of the 185g bullets for proper feeding in my rifle (Lightning).

RR

[Sedalia Dave]

10 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I just bought Trailboss at Cabela's, and it was quite a bit less per jar than the other powders on display. For me, it is not about price comparisons at all. Trailboss offers us distinct advantages over some other choices. For me, I especially value being able to easily see a charge before placing a bullet for seating.

 

Remember that a bottle of Trail Boss is only 9 oz vice 16 in the small bottles and 5 lb vice 8 lb for the large jug

 

700X only has 14 oz per bottle.

[Roscoe Regulator]

On ‎12‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 10:37 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Remember that a bottle of Trail Boss is only 9 oz vice 16 in the small bottles and 5 lb vice 8 lb for the large jug

 

700X only has 14 oz per bottle.

Yes, I know, but I found the price in proportion to the volume/weight. At Cabela's. I paid 17 something before a 10% discount. The IMR4227 I bought at the same time was in the 20s.

[Savvy Jack]

nice score!