Colt SAA dead?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Prices for used Colts are all over the place.

 

1st Generation for $500.

Got it so cheap because, as you can see, it has a bad chrome refinish

 

2nd Generation for $700

Honestly aged, almost no finish left on it.

 

3rd Generation for $1450

Wooden grips are original.   Ivory Laminate grips are after market purchased separately.   LNIB, but still "used"

All obtained within the last 3 years.   So, condition is going to be the main factor, regardless of how old it is.  I have seen all three generations for a lot more, and thirds for a little less depending on different factors.  All are good shooters.

 

[Ramblin Gambler]

On 12/17/2018 at 9:09 PM, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

May I borrow your crystal ball or get the contact info of your fortune teller?  

 

If the fortune teller is any good, they're going to contact YOU any minute. 

 

I'd tell you to have your credit card ready, but she already knows that too. 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

On 12/18/2018 at 7:07 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

Nope! I’m just looking. At some point I may want to occasionally shoot Classic Cowboy and if I do I’ll probably go with period guns to the extent I can. .38 won’t do it I’ll go .45. Just trying to learn.

There’s a nice 7.5” in 45 for sale in the classifieds right now.  Would scratch the colt, 45, and period gun itch all at once. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Thanks Redwood!!

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

I think this the time we all miss Sixgun Shorty as he always seemed to have great connections at Colt being one of their dealers!  He could definitely give us the lowdown in what’s in the pipeline. 

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Captain,

 

If you're going to the Ocoee Ranger shoot Saturday, touch base with me.  I'm shooting my "new to me" 2nd gen .357 Colts I recently acquired.  Curly Bill Kelly just finished slicking them up.  I recently saw a similar pair for sale at a very good price.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

Will do! See you there and thanks!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

7 hours ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said:

I think this the time we all miss Sixgun Shorty as he always seemed to have great connections at Colt being one of their dealers!  He could definitely give us the lowdown in what’s in the pipeline. 

SS dropped is Colt relationship because Colt was not filling SAA orders, and They gave him the run-around.

OLG

 

[McCandless]

On 12/18/2018 at 6:32 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

Would a 1st gen (1902) in good shape, reblued, 38 sp. for $1999 be a good deal?

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791900918

 

On 12/18/2018 at 6:38 PM, Redwood Kid said:

No it wouldn’t. Anything reblued is going to detract significantly from the value. You can also get a good idea of gun broker values when something only has a buy it now price and nobody has jumped on it. Keep asking the questions before buying though. Are you set on 38? 

 

Looking closely at the date on the frame, the rampant colt, and the serial number, I believe the frame was lightly buffed.  Possibly it was done for surface rust, or to allow the blueing to take over the old CCH.   The front sight has been filed down, the numbers on the loading gate don't match and I suspect that it has replacement screws and that the hammer is a replacement.  So, it is not a collectible piece, but a nifty shooter.  As such, the price is too high.

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

17 minutes ago, McCandless said:

...the numbers on the loading gate don't match...

 

 

Loading gate numbers don't match the s/n.  It is an assembly number and should match a number on the bottom of the frame under the triggerguard.

[Warden Callaway]

On 12/18/2018 at 5:32 PM, Captain Bill Burt said:

Would a 1st gen (1902) in good shape, reblued, 38 sp. for $1999 be a good deal?

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/791900918

 

Do some research or maybe someone with Colt SAA knowledge can tell but... a couple of things I see screwy is the 38 Special in 1902. According to Kuhnhausen book of Colt,   the 38 S&W Special was not offered until 1930.  Also I don't see a smokeless proof mark on trigger bow. 

 

Ps. The cylinder looks to be a second generation basted on it's ratch configuration.  Also,  I'd expect the front of the cylinder to be radius different on an early first generation.

 

 

Here is a Pietta cylinder that the front is radiused like the early black powder Colts. I don't know when they went to the simple chamfer. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Wow! You guys really know your Colts!

[Warden Callaway]

30 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Wow! You guys really know your Colts!

 

I'm far from being an expert so someone who knows check my homework. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

9 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

 

Looking closely at the date on the frame, the rampant colt, and the serial number, I believe the frame was lightly buffed.  Possibly it was done for surface rust, or to allow the blueing to take over the old CCH.   The front sight has been filed down, the numbers on the loading gate don't match and I suspect that it has replacement screws and that the hammer is a replacement.  So, it is not a collectible piece, but a nifty shooter.  As such, the price is too high.

The date on the frame? Aren't those just patent dates? Am I missing something here??

[Hillbilly Drifter]

10 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The date on the frame? Aren't those just patent dates? Am I missing something here??

he was indicating that looking at the dates area of the frame, it showed signs that it had been buffed

[Rye Miles #13621]

18 minutes ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

he was indicating that looking at the dates area of the frame, it showed signs that it had been buffed

Thanks, I misunderstood. I haven't had enough coffee yet!!

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I looked up the serial number in the picture on the Colt website and it does come back as 1902.  If it's true that .38 Special was not offered until 1930, and I have no idea about that, then this would indicate that the barrel has been replaced.   I'd assume the cylinder as well.   But if it was, it was done a long time ago, based upon the look of the finish.  This is entirely possible.   I have an 1880's vintage Colt that according to its factory letter started life as a .44-40.   It is now a .32-20.

 

I'd say a letter is in order for this pistol to determine more information.

 

It looks like a nice pistol and an honest shooter, but I think the price is too high.

 

I have a Second Gen .45 that has no finish left, but is all original and in other wise good condition that is a fine shooter.   I paid $700 for it less than three years ago.   Yes, this is a 1st, but it's apparently been heavily modified.

[McCandless]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

I looked up the serial number in the picture on the Colt website and it does come back as 1902.  If it's true that .38 Special was not offered until 1930, and I have no idea about that, then this would indicate that the barrel has been replaced.   I'd assume the cylinder as well.   But if it was, it was done a long time ago, based upon the look of the finish.  This is entirely possible.   I have an 1880's vintage Colt that according to its factory letter started life as a .44-40.   It is now a .32-20.

 

I'd say a letter is in order for this pistol to determine more information.

 

It looks like a nice pistol and an honest shooter, but I think the price is too high.

 

I have a Second Gen .45 that has no finish left, but is all original and in other wise good condition that is a fine shooter.   I paid $700 for it less than three years ago.   Yes, this is a 1st, but it's apparently been heavily modified.

H.K. is correct, the SAA was not offered in .38 special until 1930 at serial number 353800.  Previously issued guns could be sent back to Colt and converted  to .38 and .45.  Many were also done privately.  Only a factory letter could tell you what the original chambering and barrel length was on this gun.  I would pass on it.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 10:26 AM, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

 

Really? Every time I see these posts where the owner says "nothing feels like a Colt" I have mulled this over. I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a well known smith, who knows the Colt style action and it's nuances intimately, were to be given a Uberti, ASM, Pietta, USFA, any other clone and a Colt to tune, most could not tell the difference blindfolded. Put identical grips on them and start with virgin guns not owned by anyone taking the test. Be very interested to see the results. Oh, there would be those that randomly got the Colt right, but no more than the law of averages would predict.

 

 This is exactly correct, unless of course you feel the left side of the frame for the little pony stamped there. Folks get it in their heads that because its a Colt, automatically thinks it's better. The first NIB 3rd Generation .44 Special I bought had an action that felt as though it were assemble by little Billy while he played in his sand box and was very over-sprung, so down the road it went (Why should I have to send an unused $1800 revolver to a 'smith to be worked on?). The next one, a 45 Colt, had enormous cylinder throats which would make meaningful accuracy with standard bullets impossible, and since this is impossible to repair without a new cylinder, away it went too, for $2,000. The last one I will ever buy, another .44 Special, sits in my safe and when the urge hits me, will be sold as well. Although it too has slightly over sized cylinder throats, I have an identically configured Uberti .44 Special that is correct in every way and shoots with sufficient accuracy to imperil deer at 75 yds. It cost about 1/4 of the Colt.

 

 On the other hand, I'm grateful for people who insist on Colts because those folks have allowed me a tidy profit on the two I've sold so far, and I'm sure this last one will be no different.

 

 And finally, my Timex keeps time just as well as a Rolex, but if one really wants a high quality SA, it appears Standard is the one to buy.  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Don’t you work for Standard, Cholla? For what it’s worrh, I had the opportunity to examine and shoot a standard yesterday and side by side a colt from 1979. Fit and finish, no comparison. The standard is a real beauty. Lock up is perfect and the action is excellent. Hard to find a flaw there. The Colt was also nice, but 40 years will diminish the finish. Now I’ll say this, the colt was not as good as other colts I own, but still nice. The later 3rd gens would be a more fair comparison. But since these two were on hand and the same configuration that’s what I have to compare. You can feel a slight weight difference between the two. The standard is heavier. Might be two ounces, but it’s there. Balance is subjective, but the colt felt better balanced. And that was the point of the nothing feels like a colt comment. The subtleties are there. Even if one is a better tuned machine. I’ll try another comparison if I can get my hands on one of the bp frames that are supposed to be made to colt dimensions instead of usfa/uberti

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

5 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Don’t you work for Standard, Cholla? For what it’s worrh, I had the opportunity to examine and shoot a standard yesterday and side by side a colt from 1979. Fit and finish, no comparison. The standard is a real beauty. Lock up is perfect and the action is excellent. Hard to find a flaw there. The Colt was also nice, but 40 years will diminish the finish. Now I’ll say this, the colt was not as good as other colts I own, but still nice. The later 3rd gens would be a more fair comparison. But since these two were on hand and the same configuration that’s what I have to compare. You can feel a slight weight difference between the two. The standard is heavier. Might be two ounces, but it’s there. Balance is subjective, but the colt felt better balanced. And that was the point of the nothing feels like a colt comment. The subtleties are there. Even if one is a better tuned machine. I’ll try another comparison if I can get my hands on one of the bp frames that are supposed to be made to colt dimensions instead of usfa/uberti

Can't find anything in print that says Standard is making variations to the SA revolver they are presently selling.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

3 hours ago, Tex Jones, SASS 2263 said:

Can't find anything in print that says Standard is making variations to the SA revolver they are presently selling.

I think it was posted on Facebook. I don’t have Facebook so I can’t confirm

 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

3 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

Don’t you work for Standard, Cholla? For what it’s worrh, I had the opportunity to examine and shoot a standard yesterday and side by side a colt from 1979. Fit and finish, no comparison. The standard is a real beauty. Lock up is perfect and the action is excellent. Hard to find a flaw there. The Colt was also nice, but 40 years will diminish the finish. Now I’ll say this, the colt was not as good as other colts I own, but still nice. The later 3rd gens would be a more fair comparison. But since these two were on hand and the same configuration that’s what I have to compare. You can feel a slight weight difference between the two. The standard is heavier. Might be two ounces, but it’s there. Balance is subjective, but the colt felt better balanced. And that was the point of the nothing feels like a colt comment. The subtleties are there. Even if one is a better tuned machine. I’ll try another comparison if I can get my hands on one of the bp frames that are supposed to be made to colt dimensions instead of usfa/Uberti

 

 As you can see, I live quite some distance from Connecticut. I'd love to work for Standard, but talk about a commute!

 

  Standard's original model (according to their site) and Uberti's both have slightly larger diameter cylinders and therefore should be slightly heavier. There are so many variables such as barrel length, caliber, et al, that affect the balance of these revolvers, that it would be impossible, in my opinion, to say that one make balances better than another. My 4 3/4" 1st Generation Colt certainly feels different than my Uberti's or USFA, but it's a 38-40 and slightly heavier than my larger caliber revolvers, making a direct comparison futile. Next time I think about it I'm going to weigh my 5 1/2" Colt SA .44 Special and my 5 1/2" Cimarron .44 Special and see how much difference there is in weight.

[Warden Callaway]

The 5-1/2" SAA feels just right.  Maybe because it was the first center fire revolver I shot.   I have 5 Cattleman - 2 in 44WCF and 3 in 45Colt and they all have 5-1/2" barrels.   Sawmill Mary has let me shoot her Cattleman in 38/357 with 4-5/8" barrels and they just feel odd. 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

 Good morning and Merry Christmas! 

 

Alrighty, I happened to be in the shop last night and grabbed my two .44 Special's for a weight comparison. First the measurements-

 

 The Colt-

 

 

 

 The Cimarron-

 

 

 

 So the Cimarron cylinder is slightly larger in diameter which means its frame would be slightly larger and it's cylinder walls slightly thicker. Now the surprise-

 

  The Colt on the scales-

 

 

 

 The Cimarron on the scales-

 

 

 

  So, unless there's a difference in grip or grip frame size, the Colt and the Cimarron (Uberti) should feel virtually the same.

 

 Cholla

 

 

 

 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Hey cholla. I believe there is a difference in grip size. Measure the backstrap width. Also, take the grips off. Colt plastic grips weigh more than the uberti wood ones do I think. Doesn’t sound right, but the wood uberti uses is really light. After that, we’re talking about things like metal compositions, which takes me completely out of the discussion. 

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

50 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Hey cholla. I believe there is a difference in grip size. Measure the backstrap width. Also, take the grips off. Colt plastic grips weigh more than the uberti wood ones do I think. Doesn’t sound right, but the wood uberti uses is really light. After that, we’re talking about things like metal compositions, which takes me completely out of the discussion. 

 

 I'll have to check on this. The very first Uberti I bought came to me wearing original Colt grips. I don't think they'd weigh more than the grips on the Cimarron because those are "one piece" (which is really three pieces of wood glued together) and they're walnut, which is quite dense.

 

 Stand by for more....

[Warden Callaway]

 

Sawmill Mary and I went on a drive today.  These drives often include stops at better gun shops.  We ran into rain and was about to cut our trip short but went on to the last shop on our tour plan. 

 

I have been looking for months for a Colt SAA. The top of my list was a second generation 45Colt 5.5 blue/color case.   But here was a second generation 1971 45Colt 5.5 in nickel in fired, no box or papers but excellant condition.   What a gorgeous gun!  The price was within what I was willing to pay. 

 

It sure is going to look nasty after shooting black powder!

[Warden Callaway]

 

I've really got a problem now that I have two Colt SAAs 5.5 in 45Colt.  How am I going to tell them apart? 

[Tyrel Cody]

4 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I've really got a problem now that I have two Colt SAAs 5.5 in 45Colt.  How am I going to tell them apart? 

 

If it's that big of a problem I have plenty of room in my safe

 

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

I've really got a problem now that I have two Colt SAAs 5.5 in 45Colt.  How am I going to tell them apart? 

 

You could put a bullseye ejector head on one of them.  Subtle, most folks wouldn't notice, but you would. 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

4 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I've really got a problem now that I have two Colt SAAs 5.5 in 45Colt.  How am I going to tell them apart? 

It seems hard at first, but you figure it out with time. Hint: the white horse is six inches taller than the black horse

[Warden Callaway]

5 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

It seems hard at first, but you figure it out with time. Hint: the white horse is six inches taller than the black horse

 

That was exactly the joke I was thinking of when I made the post. 

[Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439]

I started the game with a Colt New Frontier in .44 sp and a Ruger Vaquero 7.5” in .44 mag. And I have been lucky enough to purchase or trade for a few more Colts another NF for less than I paid for the first one because the guy had got it from an estate cheap the first one was 640 with an auction premium and the second was 600.   I am one of those people who like Winchester’s and Colts because that’s what the “cowboys” I know used. I do not fault others who play with their brand of toys and kind of resent those that tell me how I should value mine. I have never shot a gun with an action job and will only repair my guns with the oringinal style parts. But that’s just me so let me be!

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

4 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

That was exactly the joke I was thinking of when I made the post. 

Great minds think alike. And ours just happen to get lucky