Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Too Tall Bob

Staging a long gun vertically.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

We use this type at a couple of clubs. Rear leg folds in to move and store.

 

Vertical stand 1.jpg

 

Extend the legs 2 ft. longer than the butt stock holder to elevate it off the ground and it becomes more user friendly. Being on the ground and having to bend over is the #1 reason vertical staging is shied away from 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

Let's look at this from a stage writer's point of view.  To the best of my limited knowledge the only other option for long gun staging that allows for downrange movement is to safe them horizontally pointed into a side berm.  That's perfectly safe but it eliminates the possibility of using that side of the bay for the rest of that stage.  It also means your spotters and brass pickers can't use that side of the stage since they're not supposed to walk in front of staged long guns.  Vertical staging allows you to use the entire bay which doubles the "variety" you can write into the stage.  And I think it's universally accepted that variety in stages is a huge plus.   

 

So that brings us to the mechanics of vertical staging.  What are the dos and don'ts?  My #1 don't is do NOT make the shooters bend over too far.  We all know the average age of our shooters and even some of the young guns are dealing with bad backs.  For that reason whichever rack you choose should be set up at a decent height.

 

#2, Security.  In the heat of the moment shooters tend to set guns down with a bit more force than they normally would.  (That's a polite way of saying quite a few throw them down. Yes, I'm one of the most guilty in that respect. ;))  Because of this the rack you choose needs to be very secure.  Out here in the desert we use big landscaping nails that are pounded through the rack and into the ground.  Either that or we take a 2-3' piece of bar stock pounded into the ground and either screw the rack to that or use bailing wire to attach the rack to it.

 

#3 Easy of use.  Building on the last step, the shooter shouldn't have to work to get his gun securely into the rack.  That's why I love the above pictured rack with the big "bucket" at the bottom and rails on the sides.  As long as the butt of the gun goes into that bucket and the barrel is flat against the back board the gun should be perfectly stable with no fear of it falling out of the rack.  It would take about the same amount of time to drop a long gun into that rack as it would to lay it flat on a table.  I love it.

I don't understand why the side of the bay would be unusable if the long guns were pointed into the side berm.  After the gun is pointed into the berm, any down range movement would be safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

 

Thats a Fact :lol:

 

But since he asked for ideas, I have one .................  Vertical Staging Sucks :P

Is that an idea or an opinion?  Just curious. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said:

I don't understand why the side of the bay would be unusable if the long guns were pointed into the side berm.  After the gun is pointed into the berm, any down range movement would be safe.

The two biggest problems are  “safely in to the berm” can be subjective and spotters and brass pickers walking in front of the muzzle. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

The two biggest problems are  “safely in to the berm” can be subjective and spotters and brass pickers walking in front of the muzzle. 

At our range, the way the long guns are staged into the berm would not allow spotters to get in front of the muzzles.  We don't allow brass pickers past the original firing line until the stage is complete.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Don Jorge said:

Vertical staging may not be ideal, but one does see it occasionally, and is good to practice, in my view.

If you have never dealt with vertical staging and plan to  shoot Winter Range and EOT then I advise a little practice, or at least be aware that you most likely will see it there on at least one stage .  While the method may not be popular to some, and not the norm at most clubs, it does exist.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also think vertical staging sux.  Unless the design of the rack doesn't allow the gun to fall and doesn't hang up on the front sight.  If more constitutionally challenged shooters are unable to reach down quickly, they can reach down more sedately.  The popularity of the "table" was brought into being because the "speed burners" don't like having to "place" their long guns as opposed to just tossing them on a table.  Personally, I'm a fan of horizontal staging on imitation cows, mules, horses, etc. with "V" groves for the guns to sit in.  Again, while very secure, one must exercise some care to prevent closing a lever. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

I also think vertical staging sux.  Unless the design of the rack doesn't allow the gun to fall and doesn't hang up on the front sight.  If more constitutionally challenged shooters are unable to reach down quickly, they can reach down more sedately.  The popularity of the "table" was brought into being because the "speed burners" don't like having to "place" their long guns as opposed to just tossing them on a table.  Personally, I'm a fan of horizontal staging on imitation cows, mules, horses, etc. with "V" groves for the guns to sit in.  Again, while very secure, one must exercise some care to prevent closing a lever. 

There is no need to prevent closing a lever. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've broken quite a few rear sights on vertical racks. The vertical racks need to be close to waist level and not sitting in the dirt. I'm a taller guy and they are not shooter friendly. As for safety, I see guys standing over top of them. They are no safer than tables when they are angled towards someone's head that is down range.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I had the sight issue in mind when I developed the rack I pictured.  And the rack leans back, to cradle the rifle or shotgun a bit.  I'll post a picture of the rack with the rifle.

Mounting it on the table, either inside or out, allows one to reach straight to it without bending over.

 

Sooner's rack looks good too.

Edited by Don Jorge
added a comment.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Assassin said:

I've broken quite a few rear sights on vertical racks. The vertical racks need to be close to waist level and not sitting in the dirt. I'm a taller guy and they are not shooter friendly. As for safety, I see guys standing over top of them. They are no safer than tables when they are angled towards someone's head that is down range.

I was trying to imagine how that's possible, and then I realized that I can't remember a single time using the rack where we didn't start at port arms, so perhaps that was a fix folks put into play before I came to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jeb Stuart #65654 said:

I don't understand why the side of the bay would be unusable if the long guns were pointed into the side berm.  After the gun is pointed into the berm, any down range movement would be safe.

 

It's all a matter of angles.  For ease of visualization I'll round the 170 rule up to 180 degrees.  Let's say you safe your rifle at a 45 degree angle to the left.  Draw a perpendicular line from the bore axis to the front of the bay.  Anything to the left of that line is a no go zone. 

 

And before anybody starts demanding I show them where in the rule book it says any of this, don't bother.  I'm citing what I consider to be a safe practice.  We have a 170 rule for a reason.  When I'm writing stages I adhere to it even with staged guns.  That applies to the shooters AND the spotters. I won't put either inside that no go zone. If someone else is comfortable allowing it great, your choice.  But please let me know before hand so I'll know to shoot elsewhere.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here are a few more pics of my long gun rack

IMG_1935.JPG

IMG_1936.JPG

IMG_1938.JPG

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

We use this type at a couple of clubs. Rear leg folds in to move and store.

 

Vertical stand 1.jpg

 

Getting awfully close to the bra point with those shotgun shells.

 

 

 

  • Haha 2
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, J.S. Sooner, SASS #73526 said:

We use this type at a couple of clubs. Rear leg folds in to move and store.

 

Vertical stand 1.jpg

If someone moves downrange in front of that stand the guns are pointed at them. If it were higher it might be safer. 

Counters and brass pickers should be warned not to step in front of the guns until they are removed by the shooter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Duce Stevens had a nice plan for a Cactus that allowed a long gun to be staged vertically. You might want to reach out to him. 

 

Don Coyote from the Arizona Yavapai Ranges built one, shoot him an email. Here is his email address: Don and Jamie Allen <dejlallen@npgcable.com>

 

TB

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks pard! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Before folks transitioned to horizontal staging, the southern AZ folks used to stick their rifles in corners or cracks/seams in the stage fronts. Some of the shooters jammed their guns in so hard the front sights were left when they retrieved their guns. Boardwalks often moved when moving on it and guns could move along with, so vertical staging on a fence with a boardwalk caused anxiety at times.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Vertical staging is ok with me as long as there's a decent rack to put my long gun in that i don't need  to wrestle with to keep it from falling the minute i let go, or the lack of any rack.  Sometime's staging in a doorway in gravel get's a little sketchy.  Can't ever seem to get that darn rifle to stay staged the way i want it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't really care to stage double barrel shotguns vertically... 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This vertical rack pictured here is one of the best I have used. We use it at Tusco and was designed and built by Moosetracks

20170701_140010[3641].jpg

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If you absolutely positively have to have a vertical rack, the one above by Moosetrax, is absolutely the Beez Kneez.  It allows you to stage from either side and it allows the shotgun to remain open and snatchible.  Also VERY easy to restate after your shooting string.  TUSCO ROCKS!!!!

 

Pam's Chuckwagon is pretty OUTSTANDING TOO (Yum)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMG_0256.thumb.JPG.f5be612bb3a1bc4dab150a1b17bc92b9.JPG

 

This is a picture of one of the vertical racks used at Winter Range.  The base is waist high and padded.  You can almost throw a long gun from across the room and it will be OK.  I copied the design, added a taller wall around the base and a wider back panel.  We screwed it to a table and can move it around where needed. 

 

_93R9362_original.thumb.jpg.c75b00539a7f3964f8bd4c2854c179d1.jpg

 

This is a trough screwed to a table that can be angled towards the berm.  We use this more often for down range movement.

 

Chancy

Edited by Chancy Shot, SASS #67163
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for all of your responses. I took Moosetrack’s idea - changed a couple things and it came out nicely.  We have used it in 2 matches so far and folks like it. I may have to make s 2nd one!

5B8317AA-7B77-4A21-92A7-48C98C7DEBC7.jpeg

77C2A6D2-8A91-47CD-93A4-AD7B51BEE553.jpeg

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wonderful!!!

 

Please keep us posted as your thoughts about the various dimensions you used evolve.  Those decisions about dimensions must have occupied your thoughts for a good while.  From here, it looks like you made some great choices.  Thanks for sharing this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If anyone wants a drawing let me know in a pm with your mailing address. I will be happy to share them with you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.