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WHAT'S THE CALL??


Reverend Ledslinga

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y'all that are so hard nosed about this, please don't let me be on your posse,, I'm one of those "zone" guys,,,

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41 minutes ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

I agree. If I was PW, I would have thrown up my hands, said, " **** it. I'm outta here. You're on your own. Bartender, give me a double on the rocks." 

 

If I was a drinkin' man, that woulda happened looonnng ago!

(been sober since May 28th 1984)  ;)

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19 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

If I was a drinkin' man, that woulda happened looonnng ago!

(been sober since May 28th 1984)  ;)

 

You would have got less for murder, just sayin:D

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I was standing three feet from TO.  Spotters were in good position to see the target.   There was no doubt among anyone there that the shooter did not willfully ignore the TO.  Everyone was in agreement.   The shooter was incredibly fast and the command most likely was called as the shooter shot his second shot.   I have shot with this shooter for the last seven years and would not question his intent.  Both the shooter and TO are incredible shooters and TO's.  The question I have is do you have to see the miss in order to be a miss?  Again how could you make in call in grass or other vegetation?  I have always felt you must see the miss to call it  and have given the benefit of the doubt to the shooter.  I also wrote a thread on  this several years ago with many different opinions.   Look forward to the ROC ruling.   I am struggling with all squibs are hits unless the shooter is stopped and you have to see the bullet in the barrel.    

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49 minutes ago, Kirk James said:

I was standing three feet from TO.  Spotters were in good position to see the target.   There was no doubt among anyone there that the shooter did not willfully ignore the TO.  Everyone was in agreement.   The shooter was incredibly fast and the command most likely was called as the shooter shot his second shot.   I have shot with this shooter for the last seven years and would not question his intent.  Both the shooter and TO are incredible shooters and TO's.  The question I have is do you have to see the miss in order to be a miss?  Again how could you make in call in grass or other vegetation?  I have always felt you must see the miss to call it  and have given the benefit of the doubt to the shooter.  I also wrote a thread on  this several years ago with many different opinions.   Look forward to the ROC ruling.   I am struggling with all squibs are hits unless the shooter is stopped and you have to see the bullet in the barrel.    

Nobody said all squibs are hits. In fact, it is the opposite. All squibs are misses. However, are you sure that light load is a squib meaning it didnt come out of the barrel? If not, its not a squib, its a light load. Did that light load hit the target or did you see a miss? If you're in position to look at the next target, you're in position to SEE a miss. I see them in vegetation just fine. If I don't its a hit. How would you want to be spotted?

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I agree with PW that a squib is a miss.  I also agree with Lassiter and Blackjack that a squib is a miss.  What I do not agree with is that if a shooter shoots the squib out of the barrel on a consecutive shot and  not  verified as a squib it is a hit because nobody saw the bullet .  I do not call a miss if I do not see them but was pointing out that this was very controversial on an earlier thread.  If  I had a squib and it sounded like a squib and not one of the three spotters had any evidence a bullet exited the barrel or hit the target,  I would hope they would stop me.  If I didn't hear the command and kept shooting I would not expect the squib to be counted as a hit.

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4 hours ago, Kirk James said:

I was standing three feet from TO.  Spotters were in good position to see the target.   There was no doubt among anyone there that the shooter did not willfully ignore the TO.  Everyone was in agreement.   The shooter was incredibly fast and the command most likely was called as the shooter shot his second shot.   I have shot with this shooter for the last seven years and would not question his intent.  Both the shooter and TO are incredible shooters and TO's.  The question I have is do you have to see the miss in order to be a miss?  Again how could you make in call in grass or other vegetation?  I have always felt you must see the miss to call it  and have given the benefit of the doubt to the shooter.  I also wrote a thread on  this several years ago with many different opinions.   Look forward to the ROC ruling.   I am struggling with all squibs are hits unless the shooter is stopped and you have to see the bullet in the barrel.    

 

2 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

Was controversial here too. Day late and a dollar short to it. Gotta use a bit of common sense and benefit of the doubt goes to the shooter is all. Very very rare situation anyway. 

 

To me (and this is just my opinion),  THESE TWO post emphasize why it is so hard to make a clear and just

call on this incident:

 

1. Shooter is experienced and fast AND... gave no indication that he willfully ignored a command to STOP.  Another

post indicated that he didn't even hesitate in his fast firing sequence when the squib occurred.

 

2. These situations are very, very rare and when they do occur,  the TO and Spotters have to handle them

accordingly.   Ya just have to judge em not only in what you see, but ya gotta add your gut feeling

into the equation.   And the shooter, his ability and reputation will often determine that 'gut' feeling

when the TO and Spotters make their final call.

 

P.S. - I can't believe Tn Williams is up this late (0100 his time).  He needs to get his beauty sleep

cause he surely needs it.

 

 

..........Widder

 

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11 hours ago, Kirk James said:

The question I have is do you have to see the miss in order to be a miss?  

 

I don't see any guidance about that in any handbooks.  Most people I know use this (based on the benefit of the doubt rule) :

If you know it's a hit, it's a hit

If you think it's a hit, it's a hit

If you think it's a miss, it's a hit

If you know it's a miss, it's a miss

 

I use sound as my primary determination, but I'm always looking to see where it hits in case a target is dead or someone is using bullets without enough clang in em (not to mention watching for engagement order).  At my home club, you get a good clump of dirt kicked up with most misses, so that can help to verify at times when you weren't otherwise sure (for instance with fast shooters). 

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