SASS/CAS discussion from another site

[Croc Holiday]

I’m located in OR.  I have been to two of the local shoots so far.  Really great folks and very, very welcoming.  I was worried about the possibility of an elitist metality you can find with some competitive endeavors.  Not a single one to be seen.  Just nice folks having fun.  Just what I hoped for.  One of the gentlemen there was kind enough to let me try his tuned Vaq’s, I think it was a 73 and a 97.  Loved all of them.  Going to the next one and hoping to try a few other things.  Not in any hury to drop cash till I know what I really want.  I’m actally pondering trying to get to winter range for the swap meet.  I should know what i’d Like by then.... or will I haha.  Gotta see if I can swing the time and the trip down.

 

 

[Hillbilly Drifter]

Good sounds like you are well into seeing it firsthand. Enjoy!

 

[J-BAR #18287]

I doubt it has occurred to those fellows, and it certainly would not be cause for gloating, but if anti-gunners are successful in implementing their agenda the ARs and semi- auto handguns are going to be targeted by legislation before our single actions and lever guns.  

 

Here’s hoping they will always be able to play with the guns they prefer, and look down upon us!! 

[Paulo Pistolero]

Their loss. Who cares what those guys think. Ya just don't meet any nicer people than cowboy action shooters. I hope attitudes like that never pollute our sport. In regards to decline in the sport I have to take issue with that. Our club, Powder Creek Cowboys have gained quite a few new shooters. We also have a shotgun park we rent our space from. People from the shotgun park are always stopping and watching us and have nothing but nice things to say. 

[Geronimo Jim SASS # 21775]

What would you expect from a bunch of snowflakes?

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

They know nothing....a lot of....nothing.

 

Comments were comical ignorance.

 

GG ~ 

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

 I read quite a bit of it. In my opinion it was a bunch of gas. As in nothing to see there. People who claim to be "shooters" and passionate gun owners pontificating on a subject they quite obviously no nothing about. Remember how when you were a kid there was always another kid that had to rip on you if you got a new shirt, new ball, new shoes.........jealously is a hell of thing even within full grown adults. We will keep dressing up like corny toy story characters and putting lead downrange. As for practical application, I won the first defensive pistol match I ever shot with a semi auto I had never shot.......there were several guys there that carry a gun for a living. If having to pick a person to run up to a table of unknown gun with and get to shooting I'll take an experienced SASS shooter with me any day. 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 6:31 PM, Shotgun Clay said:

The Spencer pump shotgun and the Winchester 1893 (ditto the Marlin 1898) are too weak for modern ammo and the rigors of cowboy shooting.  The one's  I see at the local gun store (which has a large number of older guns) are clearly marked "Not a Shooter".

 

This is one of the few things I take issue with.   You also can't use modern ammo in an original Winchester 87, but it is perfectly safe with 2-1/2 shells loaded with black powder.  

 

I believe that the same can be said for the Spencer, The Burgess, and yes, even the 93 Winchester.  I don't have a Spencer, but I do have a Burgess and a 93, and I see no reason why with appropriate ammo, they can not be allowed.   After all, the 87 is.

 

The question of the Marlin 98 family is a little more complicated.  There are some very real safety concerns with the design, but I have read, (I do not own one) that they can be overcome.    It was once stated here on the Wire, words to the effect of, that for liability reasons SASS can't just say it's on the shooter if they choose to use a 98, that SASS could be held liable if someone were to use one and it had a problem.   I don't know about that, so I won't comment.

 

That being said, there are more than a few guns of the era that don't have a place in our game.   While I'll agree that most of them would never have a legitimate place in a main match, I do think there could be a place for them in various side matches.   But that's another discussion altogether.

 

[Hairtrigger Hayes]

CAS is the only shooting sport I've ever competed in.  Although their sport doesn't appeal to me I don't think I'd knock it other than to say I'm more comfortable in high waisted britches with suspenders that I would be in tactical pants, boots and vest with 47 lbs of gear attached.

 

Like most, I got into this game for the shooting.  I too thought the dressing up part was kind of "weird". But the more I got involved the more I bought in to the whole deal.  Now the costuming is as much fun as any of it.

 

But by and far, the people of CAS are the very best part.  The most decent people I've ever know in my life I've met over the past 7.5 years since joining.  And as for "lack of interest in CAS"...When I joined in 2011 I was SASS#92280.  They are currently up into the 107s.  That is 15,000 plus new members in 7 years or about 2,200 new members annually.  I'd call that pretty decent growth.

 

I used to have a bunch a black guns and still do.  But now they're just taking up space in my gun safe...way back in the back!

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

 I read quite a bit of it. In my opinion it was a bunch of gas. As in nothing to see there. People who claim to be "shooters" and passionate gun owners pontificating on a subject they quite obviously no nothing about. Remember how when you were a kid there was always another kid that had to rip on you if you got a new shirt, new ball, new shoes.........jealously is a hell of thing even within full grown adults. We will keep dressing up like corny toy story characters and putting lead downrange. As for practical application, I won the first defensive pistol match I ever shot with a semi auto I had never shot.......there were several guys there that carry a gun for a living. If having to pick a person to run up to a table of unknown gun with and get to shooting I'll take an experienced SASS shooter with me any day. 

I've said it many times... but in my many years of shooting cowboy, I've seen many a self-proclaimed "expert" shooter come to this sport, saying, 'that stuff ain't hard, look how close & big those targets are...",  just to be handed their ego back when they fall flat.  

[Griff]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

The question of the Marlin 98 family is a little more complicated.  There are some very real safety concerns with the design, but I have read, (I do not own one) that they can be overcome.    It was once stated here on the Wire, words to the effect of, that for liability reasons SASS can't just say it's on the shooter if they choose to use a 98, that SASS could be held liable if someone were to use one and it had a problem.   I don't know about that, so I won't comment.

I forget exactly when, but... SASS received a letter from Marlin stating that the Marlin hammer pump was not safe with modern ammo... and THAT is why it was proclaimed unsafe.  I have one sitting in my safe, halfway thru a complete rebuild when that letter arrived.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

This is one of the few things I take issue with.   You also can't use modern ammo in an original Winchester 87, but it is perfectly safe with 2-1/2 shells loaded with black powder.  

 

I believe that the same can be said for the Spencer, The Burgess, and yes, even the 93 Winchester.  I don't have a Spencer, but I do have a Burgess and a 93, and I see no reason why with appropriate ammo, they can not be allowed.   After all, the 87 is.

 

The question of the Marlin 98 family is a little more complicated.  There are some very real safety concerns with the design, but I have read, (I do not own one) that they can be overcome.    It was once stated here on the Wire, words to the effect of, that for liability reasons SASS can't just say it's on the shooter if they choose to use a 98, that SASS could be held liable if someone were to use one and it had a problem.   I don't know about that, so I won't comment.

 

That being said, there are more than a few guns of the era that don't have a place in our game.   While I'll agree that most of them would never have a legitimate place in a main match, I do think there could be a place for them in various side matches.   But that's another discussion altogether.

 

Oh hell no!! A 93 Win???? Please say you're kidding.

[smokedawg SASS#60968]

On 12/6/2018 at 5:57 PM, Half Deaf Hoss Deveraux said:

Brand spankin new to CAS and read through some of the other posts on the AR site.  Most was petty BS imo but there was some truth sprinkled in.  Some hurdles for me as a newbie...

 

Age and exposure to westerns - I love westerns.  Watched shows like Bonanza, Gun Smoke and Big Valley with my grandpa as a kid and loved good ol 50's style Audie Murphy movies and spaghetti westerns in my 20's.  I'd get hooked on anything western.  My boy (23) thinks this looks fun too but I raised him on a steady diet of westerns.  His friends would be a harder sell.  They don't have the nostalgia for them that my boy or I have.  For similar money (see below) they can get a "cool" AR and maybe a nice Glock that reminds them of Call of Duty (shooter video game).  There is a new hit game called Red Dead Redemption 2 that takes place in the old west.  Maybe this will get Millennials interested.  It's a great game and a place where I have a beautiful horse and can afford 2 schofields, a springfield, a 73ish rifle and a bunch of other stuff haha. 

 

Costume - This took me a bit to get over.  I love westerns but I've never been a dress up guy and wasn't sure what to make of it.  Now that I've had time to digest the costume idea...  I wouldn't change it.  I think it would be less cool.  It fits the theme and the nostalgia which is kinda the point isn't it?

 

Hardware - Since my last name ain't Rockefeller, this is a bigger deal.  $1300 for pistols, $1100 for rifle, $300 ish for a side by side or $500 for a 97.  Just shy of $3000 for the guns alone.  Hoping I can shrink that some with used gear but it won't be by much from what I've seen so far.  Then there's leather and min costuming, a cart, member fees, range fees, and ammo...  It's a sizable investment for someone starting.  It's doable for me these days but not without some sting and hesitation.  In my 20's or even 30's, it's be just too much to lure me in.  I'd want to but would never have been able to afford it.

 

Last one is just me personally...  Selecting gear.  There is a lot to learn to make an informed purchase.  A task tough enough without OCD...  Ask me what I plan to get today and it'll be completely different tomorrow haha.

 

None of these are enough to deter me so far so you'll gain one more among your ranks at least. 

 

Looking forward to freeing my inner Josey Wales!

Shop around....this year i picked up a NIB 7.5" Uberti 7th Cavalry for $425, a Winchester 97 for $225 and a Winchester 73 for $525.  Deals are around.

[Croc Holiday]

25 minutes ago, smokedawg SASS#60968 said:

Shop around....this year i picked up a NIB 7.5" Uberti 7th Cavalry for $425, a Winchester 97 for $225 and a Winchester 73 for $525.  Deals are around.

 

Well Done!  That's my plan.   I figure if I'm patient, I'll be able to get that $3000 down to $2500 or less. 

 

And, I'm told that folks in SASS are so nice that someone will likely just give me what I need .  J/k.  Half deaf and full of crap haha. 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

I was looking for stories about Japanese cowboys in response to the comments from that person on the other site. I got sidetracked when I found this great history of Chinese Immigrants in the 1800s. http://www.historynet.com/chinese-immigrants-on-americas-western-frontier.htm

 

BTW I've known several Chinese SASS shooters and two Japanese. They were twins and rice importers to Japan. We shot with them at Chabot Park, maybe Richmond too. I don't remember the name of one; the other was Japan Holiday. They were great folks. Last I heard from JH, he'd moved to So. CA. Does anyone here know him or if he is still shooting with us. I adored his wife, IIRC her name was Michelle. Such a sweetie. She didn't shoot.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

 

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi Folks,

 

I was looking for stories about Japanese cowboys in response to the comments from that person on the other site. I got sidetracked when I found this great history of Chinese Immigrants in the 1800s. http://www.historynet.com/chinese-immigrants-on-americas-western-frontier.htm

 

BTW I've known several Chinese SASS shooters and two Japanese. They were twins and rice importers to Japan. We shot with them at Chabot Park, maybe Richmond too. I don't remember the name of one; the other was Japan Holiday. They were great folks. Last I heard from JH, he'd moved to So. CA. Does anyone here know him or if he is still shooting with us. I adored his wife, IIRC her name was Michelle. Such a sweetie. She didn't shoot.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

 

 

Well not the folks you’re talking about specifically but there was China Camp, his wife Prairie Weet and their daughter Sweet Water and nowadays a couple of pards of asian decent are Photoshooter and High Valley Ranger and I’m pretty sure there are more. 

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

I shot bowling pins, steel and NRA Silhouette back in the 80s and had a lot of fun. The week before my pa and I shot CAS for the first time, in 2002, I went to a blackgun match and EVERYONE was mad at somebody. No fun at all! We had a ball in CAS and have kept it up ever since. He cant shoot anymore because if age issues but he still loves it and the people. Y'all are why we keep coming back. I have heard that said before.

 

Imis

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

I only read about 5 pages before I got tired of the same negative comments about clothes, shooting aliases, and mouse fart loads.  To each his own I say.  CAS is where a 70 yo who can't run fast, or even shoot real fast can have FUN every weekend with friendly folks that are willing to share their guns if yours breaks during a match (even if you are competing in the same class), or offer to try to fix your gun if it breaks, where no matter your skill set or ability folks are always willing to help you and make you feel good about competing (or at least participating).  

 

Yes, many of us are getting older and slowing down, but I'm not competing with or against them anyway.  My personal goal is to shoot clean or as close to it as I'm capable.  I've always said that if this were a situation where if we were a hunting society whereI had to put meat on the table, my family wouldn't starve.  We wouldn't have many green vegetables because I have a "black thumb," but we wouldn't go hungry. I also like to joke that I have more fun than those really fast shooters because I get to shoot for 6 minutes instead of 3 minutes or less after 6 stages. 

 

Yes, it can cost money to get involved, but what sport doesn't?  Drag racing, off-roading, sailing, trap or skeet, hunting, golf, tennis all require an initial investment and cost each time you participate. I choose to participate in CAS because I ENJOY it no matter how slow I shoot or how many targets I miss.  As far as skill level, I've been at the local shooting range when some law enforcement officers are practicing for their yearly qualifying and I can hit more targets with greater accuracy than most of them.  I frequently hear on the news stuff like the officer fired 10 rounds and the perp wasn't hit once.  I know without a doubt that I send more lead downrange every month than most of the officers that carry everyday.  I've seen cowboys outshoot cops in cops versus cowboy matches even though they are using their new, expensive, sophisticated semis and we're using single action revolvers and old-timey guns.

 

I enjoy the people in CAS and at the local club matches the fact that allowances are made so as many people that want to can participate.  Of course in state, regional, or major matches like EOT, I'll never be competitive even in my class (which is blackpowder), but I still have FUN and enjoy the company of great people, and isn't that what you want from any sport?

[Matthew Duncan]

20 years ago the son and I watched our first SASS match.  It was winter and by the time the match was over another 2" of snow had fallen.  I don't recall a single cowpoke spoke to us or acknowledge our presence other then the Match Director (Midnight Desperado) and his wife Thorny Rose.  Midnight offered his pistols to try after the match which we did.  A year later we had a set of firearms and we went back and Midnight showed us the ropes.  Took a few matches for the other cowpokes to warm up.  When I see Stranger at a match I make it a point to welcome them, ask if they have any questions and offer my guns to shoot a stage after the match if they wish.

 

2 years ago I watched my first 3-gun match.  Not a soul talked to me.  I waited until the scorekeeper wasn't busy to ask a few questions.  Scorekeeper acted like I was bothering him.  Attended their newbie class.  Instructor was friendly and knowledgeable.  Shot my first match with them, took a while for me to get the squad leader loosen up a bit.  Squad didn't "how do you do" to me at all.  Traveling and you stop at a church for Sunday worship and when you walk in the congregation all turn and look at you like, "What are strangers doing here?"? That's the look I got from the squad.  I haven't returned.

[Lorelei Longshot, SASS #44256 Life]

I've been CAS since 2003, but I remember that at every club I've ever shot at even in the beginning there were friendly people explaining things to visitors and offering to let you shoot their guns after the match.  I and the majority of club members try to do the same when visitors come to our local club.  I also offer to let the ladies try my guns if they've come with their shooting husband and they aren't shooters themselves.  I've even loaned multiple guns and ammo to new shooters that let me know in advance what they need to borrow to participate and probably most CAS shooters are willing to do the same.

 

Since I've been shooting over the years at lots of Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas clubs, nowadays I usually know at least a few people no matter where I go.  The saying is "You come for the shooting, but stay for the people."  This has been true for me for sure.

[Kirk James]

I have raised two children with our SASS family.  There is no way the forum can take away from the incredible friends, the leadership, the many role models SASS has provided them.  Two years ago SASS Kicker and Robyn DeVault met in the top 16.   Jokers Wild video was shown without his permission by a shooting club from Brazil.  Within 15 hours the video had over a million and a half views.  Jokers wild has had another 600,000 plus views.  The comments were incredible and most people could not believe they cowboy firearms. 

[Trooper Ozzy]

Just finished my second year. Have been able to shoot at 9 clubs.  Not once have felt like a stranger, or not been approached and introduced to others.  Try to pay it forward the same way at the home club.  Lucky to shoot with many accomplished shooters that are always helpful and answering questions. 

 

Costume? Requirements?  Jeans, boots and  a hat.  Really think that naysayers have a complex on getting beaten by a 60 to 70 year old. On the Cops and Cowboy shoots the modern firearms rarely beat an experienced single action shooter. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 hours ago, Trooper Ozzy said:

Just finished my second year. Have been able to shoot at 9 clubs.  Not once have felt like a stranger, or not been approached and introduced to others.  Try to pay it forward the same way at the home club.  Lucky to shoot with many accomplished shooters that are always helpful and answering questions. 

 

Costume? Requirements?  Jeans, boots and  a hat.  Really think that naysayers have a complex on getting beaten by a 60 to 70 year old. On the Cops and Cowboy shoots the modern firearms rarely beat an experienced single action shooter. 

Hat is not required 

[John E.B. Rawton]

I have not visited the other site and do not want to invest my time or energy. To each their own, however, I don’t condone berating someone or a group you don’t know or aren’t a part of. The other group does not sound very welcoming.

If I wasn’t shooting cowboy I wouldn’t be shooting with a group. I don’t own modern guns and honestly don’t have an interest in them.

I am a cowboy at heart and enjoy the genre. I’d rather watch a western rerun or movie over a modern action shoot up any day. I recently found old radio serials on spotify and have been listening to Gunsmoke and the Lone Ranger driving back and forth to work. (yeah, I’m not in the retired crowd yet)

I was in my early 40’s when I first shot cowboy. 10 years later I am still on the younger side and have not seen many new shooters. I stumbled across SASS in Guns of the Old West and if not for the link to my local club I would have never known about it. Until you try something you will never know what you like or dislike.

My point is that there are a lot of people that seem to thrive on negativity and generally seem to fuel each other even with very little knowledge of what they speak. I don’t let them bother me. Life’s too short. 

[Wyatt Hurts SASS#72737]

I learned this a long time ago and I try to teach it to the teens I work with, "other people's opinions about me are NONE of my business. I would say that extends to other people's opinions about my choice of shooting game are also none or my business.

 

Heck look at how I dress and you can tell I do not worry about the opinions of others

[Knarley Bob]

Most of what I gathered is they don't like to wear a "Costume". They should try a rendezvous! Leggings and breach clout. If one doesn't have enough confidence in themselves, nothing one can do.

I feel more comfortable in western wear, heck I am in steel toe boots, denim and a hard hat 5 days a week. Do I like being "7" again? Heck yeah I do. I NEVER told anyone that I was going to grow up! Maybe get older, but I refuse to grow up, if I don't have to when I play.

Too bad for them, they don't know what they are missing, it's something one can't really explain. If ya don't "get it"...…………….. forget it.

KB

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

14 minutes ago, Knarley Bob said:

Most of what I gathered is they don't like to wear a "Costume". They should try a rendezvous! Leggings and breach clout. If one doesn't have enough confidence in themselves, nothing one can do.

I feel more comfortable in western wear, heck I am in steel toe boots, denim and a hard hat 5 days a week. Do I like being "7" again? Heck yeah I do. I NEVER told anyone that I was going to grow up! Maybe get older, but I refuse to grow up, if I don't have to when I play.

Too bad for them, they don't know what they are missing, it's something one can't really explain. If ya don't "get it"...…………….. forget it.

KB

The majority of the 'people' in that thread think 'Play Station' is shooting.......

Considering the source of their 'complaints'..........Their opinion is not worth the spit I put on the ground.

OLG

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Y'all are letting this whole issue take up too much of your life... Let it go.

 

Phantom

[Charlie Whiskers]

Just now, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Y'all are letting this whole issue take up too much of your life... Let it go.

 

Phantom

 

 

  To those in "that other" forum. I'll gladly mark the spot on my anatomy for them to kiss. What they care about means nothing to me. SASS and the CAS shooters are genuine people no matter what we shoot or choose to wear.

[Shotgun Clay]

17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Y'all are letting this whole issue take up too much of your life... Let it go.

 

Phantom

The whole purpose of the internet is to allow bald men to fight over combs without leaving the comfort of their house.

[The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432]

Allie Mo. I was surprised and impressed you jumped into the discussion at ar15.com.  I am a member there since 2001. I had a double take when I saw your name. Thought my phone had a senior moment. 

 

GD is more chaff then wheat but some good information can be had once you  ignore the idjuts.   The technical forums are much better. A wealth of good information on modern guns.  

 

Most of the anti CAS commenters seem to be looking for excuses not to try the best shooting sport there is. That is their loss.  The GDers complain about all shooting disciplines

[Shooting Bull]

Having been registered with that site for MANY years that thread confirmed to me I made a good decision to never buy a membership.  As Coconino Pistolero pointed out, you can get some good information from some of the technical forums but GD is horrible.  It's terribly sad how fellow shooters who claim to care about the 2nd Amendment will so readily tear down others simply because our fun is different than their fun.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Besides the rudeness and prejudice against our beloved sport on that site, two things made me incredibly sad, the ageism and prejudice against people who have infirmities.  I consider that heartless and cruel!

 

 

 

 

[Shotgun Clay]

51 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Besides the rudeness and prejudice against our beloved sport on that site, two things made me incredibly sad, the ageism and prejudice against people who have infirmities.  I consider that heartless and cruel!

 

 

 

 

 

It's tough being uber tacticool...   I mean, these guys even trick out their pets.

 

[Shooting Bull]

1 hour ago, Shotgun Clay said:

 

It's tough being uber tacticool...   I mean, these guys even trick out their pets.

 

 

Well now to be fair, we're not completely immune from that