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PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

Moving from LT w/shotgun closed & NOT cocked

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Moving/changing location with a shotgun action CLOSED and the hammer(s) DOWN on EMPTY chamber(s).

 

Considering that a loaded RIFLE (no round chambered) is carried from the LT to the staging location in that condition, doing so with a SHOTGUN (which is almost always NOT loaded at the LT) is a NO CALL.

Simply have the shooter open the action upon arrival at the staging point.

If it somehow happens to be loaded, apply the appropriate SDQ.

 

Quote

 

A shotgun is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage) in the following condition only: 

- Action open, round in chamber or on carrier. 

- Hammer(s) fully down on an empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed.

 

SHB p.15

 

This also applies when moving from the LT or to the ULT (i.e. at anytime while on the FIRING LINE).

Quote

Firing line – from first firearm placed on the loading table until all firearms are confirmed as cleared at the unloading table.

SHB p.43

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Golly, consistency in a committee decision, imagine that!  Does this mean, uncommon good sense is about to break out all over?  Snarky comments aside, thanks PWB.  Welcome news.

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3 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

This is going to cause some serious confusion. 

 

Why? & How?

 

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Just now, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Why? & How?

 

Because this post will be misread and the NOT COCKED. Part will be missed. They will think that a double that closes on its way to the line need not be opened before continuing to walk. 

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Palewolf, you and the ROC are doing a great job. I hope my comment wasn’t misunderstood as meaning otherwise. I just hope people read this carefully. With all the recent discussion about the closed and cocked shotgun, it will be easy for people to glaze over this and get the wrong idea. Nobody’s fault but theirs. 

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2 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

Because this post will be misread and the NOT COCKED. Part will be missed. They will think that a double that closes on its way to the line need not be opened before continuing to walk. 

 

This does NOT change the previous clarification regarding "Changing location with a COCKED long gun".

It is a clarification made as requested regarding a very unlikely situation...which would most likely occur with an external-hammered shotgun.

 

 

 

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But Hammerless Shotguns are cocked , on opening .... and if it closed on a round ... It would be cocked over the firing end of a Live round .... And Should be A MDQ....

You would be moving with a live round under the Hammer ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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1 hour ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

But Hammerless Shotguns are cocked , on opening .... and if it closed on a round ... It would be cocked over the firing end of a Live round .... And Should be A MDQ....

You would be moving with a live round under the Hammer ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

That would be a SDQ (as noted in the OP)

Quote

- Changing location/moving with a live round under a cocked hammer or firearm with the hammer down on a live round. 

SHB p.22

Movement during stage engagement with the action opened and a live round chambered is allowed (ref the rule quoted in the OP).

(See also the OTHER POST re "Moving from the LT w/the action OPEN & COCKED")

 

If a shooter is coming from the LOADING TABLE with a shotgun in that condition (OPEN & LOADED), I would suggest that the shooter review the rules.

 

 

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Thanks Palewolf.

 

This implies that the TO be very carefull for hammerless closed shotgun as they are hammers cocked as soon as the gun is opened and stay cocked if closed....

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Thanks PWB for bringing the finer points of the game to our attention. The more consistent the clairifications are, the easier they are to fallow. This one fits right in with existing rules and common sense.

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.standby

 

Snakebite

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OK... so I get ready to move from the LT to the Stage. I close my SXS and pull the trigger/s to put the hammers down on empty chambers, then I move toward the stage. How is anyone going to know if the hammers are cocked. If they are NOT cocked, then no SDQ. 

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3 hours ago, Snakebite said:

OK... so I get ready to move from the LT to the Stage. I close my SXS and pull the trigger/s to put the hammers down on empty chambers, then I move toward the stage. How is anyone going to know if the hammers are cocked. If they are NOT cocked, then no SDQ. 

When you get to the stage, prior to opening the shotgun and staging it, call the TO over, point the SG down range, and pull the trigger.

 

Silence = no call

Click = SDQ

Boom = SDQ

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

OK... so I get ready to move from the LT to the Stage. I close my SXS and pull the trigger/s to put the hammers down on empty chambers, then I move toward the stage. How is anyone going to know if the hammers are cocked. If they are NOT cocked, then no SDQ. 

If I saw you close your shotgun and pull the triggers at the loading table I would give you a DQ for dry fireing  at the loading table.

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Really, how do you lower the hammer on your rifle at the loading table. What is the definition of dry firing. Do you have to be sighting the gun or not?

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You said you closed the shotgun and pull the trigger. That is dry fireing. Lowering the hammer (not free falling) with your thumb or fingers is decocking and is what you do at the loading table.

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It is most unfortunate that the new rule books left out a number of things, as well as made some changes. Here is just one of many things left out or summarily changed when the new RO I was thrust upon us.   

 

30. Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and will result in a Stage Disqualification.  Dry firing is allowed only at designated safe areas.  Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the gun into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the gun to fire normally. 

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2 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

When you get to the stage, prior to opening the shotgun and staging it, call the TO over, point the SG down range, and pull the trigger.

 

Silence = no call

Click = SDQ

Boom = MDQ  SDQ

 

REF: SHB p.22 - STAGE DISQUALIFICATION PENALTY (SDQ)

 

 

1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

...

30. Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and will result in a Stage Disqualification.  Dry firing is allowed only at designated safe areas.  Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the gun into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the gun to fire normally. 

 

1 hour ago, Lead Monger said:

You said you closed the shotgun and pull the trigger. That is dry fireing. Lowering the hammer (not free falling) with your thumb or fingers is decocking and is what you do at the loading table.

 

Quote

- Dry firing at the loading table is not allowed and results in a stage disqualification.  Dry firing is allowed only at designated safe areas.  Dry firing is defined as the act of bringing the firearm into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the firearm to fire normally.   

SHB p.28

 

Quote

Dry firing – the act of bringing an unloaded firearm into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the gun to fire normally. 

SHB p.43 - Glossary of Terms

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25 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

REF: SHB p.22 - STAGE DISQUALIFICATION PENALTY (SDQ)

 

Thanks for catching that. My fingers went to typing. A little disconnected from the brain. And, I missed lunch today.

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4 hours ago, Lead Monger said:

If I saw you close your shotgun and pull the triggers at the loading table I would give you a DQ for dry fireing  at the loading table.

 

2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Dry firing – the act of bringing an unloaded firearm into a shooting position, cocking the hammer, and pulling the trigger as if to cause the gun to fire normally. 

 

SHB p.43 - Glossary of Terms

Please don't make up rules or definitions.

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1 hour ago, Chief Rick said:

 

Please don't make up rules or definitions.

I contend that when you close the action, cock the hammer and pull the trigger the act of dry fireing has been committed. If this act is performed at the loading table a stage DQ will result.

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Just now, Lead Monger said:

I contend that when you close the action, cock the hammer and pull the trigger the act of dry fireing has been committed. If this act is performed at the loading table a stage DQ will result.

 

Please READ the referenced SASS definitions of "dry firing" regarding "bringing a firearm into A SHOOTING POSITION".

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

I contend that when you close the action, cock the hammer and pull the trigger the act of dry fireing has been committed. If this act is performed at the loading table a stage DQ will result.

I contend that you're wrong as per the rule book.

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10 minutes ago, Lead Monger said:

What exactly is a shooting position?

 

An EXAMPLE would be shouldering a rifle and sighting down the barrel = SDQ

Some shooters close the lever, then simply pull the trigger while it is lying flat on the table to drop the hammer = NO CALL

 

 

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Oh man that just makes me cringe thinking about it

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If you just lower the hammer on the stage, you will receive a SDQ unless you first get approval from the T.O.. That process is exempted at the Loading Table. Example: A shooter kicks out a round in the rifle. Does the exact same thing that he did at the LT.... I.e., puts the rifle down on the table, closes the action and then lets the hammer down. STAGE DQ! Unless he first gets approval. Same situation.... this time the shooter closes the action and pulls the trigger before loading the extra round. NO-CALL.

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54 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

If you just lower the hammer on the stage, you will receive a SDQ unless you first get approval from the T.O.. That process is exempted at the Loading Table. Example: A shooter kicks out a round in the rifle. Does the exact same thing that he did at the LT.... I.e., puts the rifle down on the table, closes the action and then lets the hammer down. STAGE DQ! Unless he first gets approval. Same situation.... this time the shooter closes the action and pulls the trigger before loading the extra round. NO-CALL.

 

There is no penalty for decocking a rifle (or revolver) when reloading during the stage engagement without the T/O's approval.
It is not being done
"... to avoid a penalty if cocked at the wrong time, position or location once a round has gone downrange."

 

 

 

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