Just how many "Categories" does SASS have ??????

[Slick McClade]

On 11/22/2018 at 11:00 AM, Assassin said:

The expense of all the awards for a large match is incredible. Then, shooters want to change categories. Try planning all of the awards, you ever wonder why people get cranky at the awards ceremony. How about not having enough awards because someone decided to jump categories at the last moment. And, those awards must be shipped to the shooter.

For those that have never run a match it's easy to say lets add more categories.

 

After a match there are always awards left over and that (in my mind) is wasted money that could have been used to buy additional prizes for the shooters.

All the additional categories are also a logistical nightmare. Yes, it's nice that we give out all the awards and make others feel good, just how many awards does one need.

 

If it were let up to me, I'd go back to 2008. Look at those categories and just go with those and I'd do away with the "boutique" categories for those that know how choose a category wisely in order to win an award. Or, break the categories into major and minor. 

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely 100% agree, it’s extremely hard for a annual shoot with 100-130 shooters. It takes most of the profits to buy awards for all these categories and feed everyone, then the club is left with very little. The reason for annual matches is to raise money for the club repairs, new targets and so on. But unfortunately the world has come to a “everyone’s a winner” attitude, doesn’t matter if you deserve it or not.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

On 11/21/2018 at 4:21 PM, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

We are working on our annual in 2 weeks

counting Ladies and well as everyone (There are no Male categories in SASS) come up with 62.  This counts our club ones too

 

And less than 50 shooters signed up.....

Yet they want to require 3 shooters to get an "award". Only 5 0r 6 categories have as many as 3 signed up. 2 in mine, 1 in my wifes.

My opinion: you only need 2 for a category. Top shooter is 1st. No need for 2nd out of 2.

If someone wants to be first out of 1, let them delude themselves that it means something.

As for awards, TRR had a real good  idea til last year. You know those inexpensive colored ribbons tht say 1st, 2nd, and 3d? They suit me just fine. Awards don't have to be expensive. It's what they represent, not what they are. Save a fancy award for the top man and woman.  We have plenty of buckles from previous shoots, and who can wear more than 1 at a time?

I recall there was a big fuss at EoT last year because they gave something else besides buckles to the top 10 in categories. Hey, we'd have been proud to get one of them. We didn't. 

There's nothing wrong with cost cutting for awards nowdays.

 

 

 

 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

There are way too many categories right? So let’s start eirminating them. I say we start with all duelist categories first. Why? Well duelist style is the only one that you can shoot in any category so there’s no need for special categories just for them. You want to shoot duelist and you want to compete? Well then go ahead and do so in any category you want. Next let’s get rid of most of the age based categories. Any of the older categories can shoot in younger categories if they want, so there’s no need to have so many. So let’s say buckaroo, young guns, under 50, and over 50. Now since gunfighter can’t be shot in all the categories, we still have to have that one, but we don’t need ages based. We can roll all the gf categories into one, including FCGF (mine). Many of us shot that category in gf before FCGF existed anyway so no big deal. Since we’re doing away with that one why not just get rid of all bp categories since you are allowed to shoot bp in any category? And costume categories don’t seem necessary since you can dress that way anyway. So a quick count: 4 aged based, one gunfighter, frontiersman (obviously can’t eliminate the toughest of all categories) times 2 for the ladies version and you now have only 12 total categories. Everyone happy now? 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

[Snakebite]

4 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

93 was my first year at EOT. Things were much simpler back then. It seems that we are caught in the middle at this point in time. Some say that we have too many categories, some say that we don't have enough. I don't want to shoot in any category that doesn't provide Fair competition. 

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Well,

I guess it's really up to each venue to decide which categories they will honor and how many shooters are required per category to garner an award. If you don't want 50 or 60 categories or single entrant category winners, then merely state what your honoring and let the chips fall where they may. 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Lets make Gunfighter style shooting OK in All adult categories. It and Duelist are simply ways to shoot!!!!! Lets get rid of  the last "Gun Control" silliness in SASS.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

Lets make Gunfighter style shooting OK in All adult categories. It and Duelist are simply ways to shoot!!!!! Lets get rid of  the last "Gun Control" silliness in SASS.

This from a guy that will call out "Squib" from the Peanut Gallery if he "thinks" there might be a Squib... For safety sake ... Kind of ironic isn't it?

[Snakebite]

1 hour ago, Keystone, SASS # 47578 said:

Well,

I guess it's really up to each venue to decide which categories they will honor and how many shooters are required per category to garner an award. If you don't want 50 or 60 categories or single entrant category winners, then merely state what your honoring and let the chips fall where they may. 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

That is the way it is right now. I've been doing annual matches for over 25 yrs and I know how much work it is. I acknowledge that adding categories can indeed complicate things, but with the computers and software of today it is not as big of a deal as it once was. The biggest complication for us is the added time to the Saturday night dinner/awards ceremony. I don't agree with using/allowing the cost of awards to dictate the number of categories that can be filled.  However,  I will admit that as a MD I do NOT offer every possible category at our small annual match, and I do require at least 2 shooters in a category before you can claim one of our coveted fantastic medallions on a red, white and blue ribbon.    It would be nice however if the big important national matches offered all categories that could actually be filled. No venom intended...

 

Snakebite 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

As usual, Phantom's "Logic" escapes me. Having witnessed more than my share of blown firearms and the subsequent damage to the shooters, I will always do my best to take the safety first road.   :-)

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

4 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

As usual, Phantom's "Logic" escapes me. Having witnessed more than my share of blown firearms and the subsequent damage to the shooters, I will always do my best to take the safety first road.   :-)

It's really simple logic... Nothing difficult to comprehend.

 

Unless you don't understand that folks physical capabilities diminish over time... Therefore safe manipulation of two loaded revolvers becomes questionable. See, simple logic. And gee Allie Mo, you should understand this.

 

Please argue your side... Looking forward to reading it.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

It's really simple logic... Nothing difficult to comprehend.

 

Unless you don't understand that folks physical capabilities diminish over time... Therefore safe manipulation of two loaded revolvers becomes questionable. See, simple logic. And gee Allie Mo, you should understand this.

 

Please argue your side... Looking forward to reading it.

I do understand that; but, it is not equally true for all people at any age. I admit my hands are a mess and I've seen superannuated a GF who scared me with his pistol manipulation. The recoil took his hands and guns over his head. Luckily, I only shot with him once.

 

I think he would have benefitted by lighter loads. I think the MD should have put a stop to it. He was well known locally. It was an annual in Nevada.

 

I've never shot with Muddy. I only know him from the SASS Conventions. I would never make a blanket statement about age and shooting ability or revolver manipulation.

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

I do understand that; but, it is not equally true for all people at any age. I admit my hands are a mess and I've seen superannuated a GF who scared me with his pistol manipulation. The recoil took his hands and guns over his head. Luckily, I only shot with him once.

 

I think he would have benefitted by lighter loads. I think the MD should have put a stop to it. He was well known locally. It was an annual in Nevada.

 

I've never shot with Muddy. I only know him from the SASS Conventions. I would never make a blanket statement about age and shooting ability or revolver manipulation.

 

 

Let's keep this simple: By allowing GF at any age, you are making a blanket statement 

 

Remember - safety, safety, safety 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Let's keep this simple: By allowing GF at any age, you are making a blanket statement 

 

Remember - safety, safety, safety 

If you say so. The "old guy" I mentioned was shooting the blanket age category of GF.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

If you say so. The "old guy" I mentioned was shooting the blanket age category of GF.  

You " liked" Mud Marine's post... So I'm trying to understand why.

 

So tell me where my logic is lacking in my post he reference.

 

Phantom

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

8 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

This from a guy that will call out "Squib" from the Peanut Gallery if he "thinks" there might be a Squib... For safety sake ... Kind of ironic isn't it?

Mud Marine was responding to this post.

6 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

As usual, Phantom's "Logic" escapes me. Having witnessed more than my share of blown firearms and the subsequent damage to the shooters, I will always do my best to take the safety first road.   :-)

You already know my thoughts on squibs.  Now wasn't that simple.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Mud Marine was responding to this post.

You already know my thoughts on squibs.  Now wasn't that simple.

Simple, but didn't address the question.

 

Think in terms of safety... And the inconsistency in his positions.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

12 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Simple, but didn't address the question.

 

Think in terms of safety... And the inconsistency in his positions.

You are assuming everyone his age is incapable of shooting GF style safely. I do not believe that to be the case despite seeing one older gentleman who scared me with his gun handling.

Mud Marine's positions are not inconsistent if he can safely shoot GF style.  I'd rather let someone who has seen him shoot make that determination. I've already told him, on the TG Forum, to ask his local MD if he can shoot an age-based GF category. Even EOT has awarded Senior GF, which is not an official category..

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

You are assuming everyone his age is incapable of shooting GF style safely. I do not believe that to be the case despite seeing one older gentleman who scared me with his gun handling.

Mud Marine's positions are not inconsistent if he can safely shoot GF style.  I'd rather let someone who has seen him shoot make that determination. I've already told him, on the TG Forum, to ask his local MD if he can shoot an age-based GF category. Even EOT has awarded Senior GF, which is not an official category..

 

 

My assumption is that our governing body (SASS), has picked a cutoff age for allowing the GF style to used in a blanket age group category.

 

But MM seems to think that SASS is incorrect in their evaluation... So he sees no safety aspects to this issue...or simply tosses it aside  Yet when safety is an issue that has nothing to do with him...or his age group, he becomes the Safety Czar.

 

Hence my irony comment... For which you seem to disagree with.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

[Red Eye Jim]

If I were going to write the rules I'd try and simplify the form so that anyone can enter anyway they want, but they may end up scored in a "simpler" category based on minimum mandates.  Then I'd form it up this way:

 

Overall - (Everyone gets this one right?)

 

Aged based\Safety breakout:

Buckaroo(ette) - Mandatory (all competitors under 14 must shoot this category)

Junior - Mandatory (14-16)

Elder Statesman/Grande Dame (recomended)

Cattle Baron/Baroness ( strongly recommended)

El Patron/La Patrona (possibly required)

Tenderfoot (First timers only and should be asked to wear a yellow kerchief, and be partnered with an experienced RO that they shadow for duties, etc.)

 

Gender break for those ladies that feel they want their own.

 

Then propellant

Modern (Unless someone has a better name for smokeless)

Soot Lords/Ladies (Frontier Cartridge if you must)..

 

Then grip

Modern (Calling them squaw grippers is funny but not appropriate)

Duelist (Double as well but only if both categories have enough entries)

Gunfighter

 

Then Costume

B-Western

Classic Cowboy

None

 

Then your age categories

Wrangler

49'er

Senior

Silver Senior

 

If a match director feels the need for other categories to broaden the draw for the match, then so be it, but they could be listed separately.  (It could be that Frontiersmen really still want to be separate from Duelist Soot Lords despite really shooting the same way...)

 

[Tennessee williams]

On 11/21/2018 at 5:18 PM, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

At a monthly match and at many smaller annuals, I agree, it really makes no difference.
Thats one reason at my home Clubs monthly's, where pretty much everyone Wins their category,
we hand out copies of overall finish so people can see how well they ended up against all the other shooters.

 

One place it does matter is when SASS cons a Club into Holding a Big Match like a Territorial Blackpowder Shootout,

like one recently held at a Club I try to go shoot at as often as possible.

They invested a Ton of time and money into putting it on and ended up with More "Official" SASS categories than Shooters to shoot in.

I thought you needed 5 shooters in a non core category to be all official. Atleast I've heard of not enough shooters to have a certain category. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

On 11/23/2018 at 1:42 PM, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

I enjoy shooting with other superannuated pards. Every posse that puts up with me allows me to shoot over 80 (Grand n Patron wart hog blackpowder gunfighter. That

is so much fun that at this stage of life the last thing I need is another dust catcher!!!!

 

Who needs trophies!!!

I like trophies.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

11 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I like trophies.

Sure, you WIN them! Most people don't.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Thanks to Palewolf for posting the old listing of categories.

 

When I was getting more involved, they added the senior category.

 

So many of us did not get awards and it was the norm back then.  But we still thoroughly enjoyed the game.

 

But things have changed and I know folks do enjoy getting awards, I do too.  Like a lot of things, it's pretty hard to go back.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Sure, you WIN them! Most people don't.

You get yer fair share

 

Most folks that I see receiving an award sure seem happy about it... Hate it when some folks poo-poo the awards... Like they are somehow above it all.

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

Sure, you WIN them! Most people don't.

How about these?

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

33 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

How about these?

Oh, those....

Well, only one was mine. And it's probably the only one I'll ever get. That's why I had you put it on the cart. It is special to me.

[Cowboy Junky]

On ‎11‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 11:04 PM, Slick McClade said:

Absolutely 100% agree, it’s extremely hard for a annual shoot with 100-130 shooters. It takes most of the profits to buy awards for all these categories and feed everyone, then the club is left with very little. The reason for annual matches is to raise money for the club repairs, new targets and so on. But unfortunately the world has come to a “everyone’s a winner” attitude, doesn’t matter if you deserve it or not.

And what REALLY breaks yer' heart is throwing all the extra ones away (and that money that could have been spent better) when it's over. If you don't buy them you need em'...…….if you buy them you don't...……..lol. If you hold a match ever year that can help because there are ways to reuse some things but if you only do them once in a while then it's hard to avoid the loss. 

[Keystone, SASS # 47578]

Why do we treat shooting styles differently. Since many think there should only be Duelist / Senior Duelist and Gunfighter / Senior Gunfighter, why not just Traditional / Senior Traditional ? Then, just add Ladies & Black Powder categories for each. Of course there would still be youth & costume categories. Oh yeah, frontiersman too. That makes about 27 categories without any local favorites like Outlaw, Josey Wales, etc. 

 

PS Never did understand how shooting a pistol using two hands was "Traditonal", always seemed it should be "Modern".

PPS An award below 1st in a category is unnecessary.

[J-BAR #18287]

If the club is going to invest a lot of money in awards, why not simply present a paper certificate at the end of the match, then make up the exact number and type of awards needed and mail them out later?  No waste, no extras that would need to be thrown away.

[Buckaroo Bubba]

At our annual match, High Noon at Tusco, we have a fellow who makes and donates our wood plaques for us. We put plastic 5x7 photo holders on them and put prints in them. The prints reflect the theme of the match. These awards pretty much only cost some photo paper and printer cartridges. No wasted materials. If we don't use all the plaques, we use them for the following year. Just take out the print and replace it the following year.

We allow pretty much whatever category you want.

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

6 minutes ago, Buckaroo Bubba said:

At our annual match, High Noon at Tusco, we have a fellow who makes and donates our wood plaques for us. We put plastic 5x7 photo holders on them and put prints in them. The prints reflect the theme of the match. These awards pretty much only cost some photo paper and printer cartridges. No wasted materials. If we don't use all the plaques, we use them for the following year. Just take out the print and replace it the following year.

We allow pretty much whatever category you want.

I might have to "borrow" this idea!

[Buckaroo Bubba]

Just now, Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804 said:

I might have to "borrow" this idea!

By all means.. send me an email address and I will send you my Word Doc files for the prints. Already setup for 5x7. Just swap out photos, text, etc.

[The Old Rat Killer]

Hello I am just starting to get set up to play cowboy and I would like to see some of the categories that clubs use and what rigs you can use. I am in mobile county Alabama. I don't know I jumped the gun or not but I got a pair of Uberti El Patrón's in 357mag.

[Tyrel Cody]

7 minutes ago, The Old Rat Killer said:

Hello I am just starting to get set up to play cowboy and I would like to see some of the categories that clubs use and what rigs you can use.

Welcome.

 

 

Don't buy anything until you've gone to a match.

 

Let us know where you live.