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Rifle tuning/drop-in parts.


Chert Rock Chuck

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   I have recently gotten started with CAS and am enjoying it immensely. While I have no delusions of being competitive anytime soon, I am interested in getting some things done to my guns to better facilitate the type of action they are seeing in the game.

 I know that short stroke kits and springs are typical modifications that make for a faster, smoother rifle. I am curious as to how much of this is available as drop-in parts, and what is best done by a qualified smith?

 I currently have a Uberti '73 .45, a pair of New Vaquero's .45, and a CZ hammered coach.

I am thinking about the free-spin modification to the pistols, not certain if it would offer any advantage....?

As for the shotty, I will have to practice ALOT more to determine if I start to look for a '97.

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Unless you are skilled, I would highly recommend have a smith do the work. Having a pro do the work will usually give you a gun you are happier with, and it will probably be cheaper in the long run

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1 minute ago, StirrupTrouble said:

Unless you are skilled, I would highly recommend have a smith do the work. Having a pro do the work will usually give you a gun you are happier with, and it will probably be cheaper in the long run

 

+10000000000000000000000000

 

 

 

As to the shotgun, borrow someone's 97 and shoot it for a match or two. I think they require a lot more practice than a double or even a hammered double.

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, StirrupTrouble said:

Unless you are skilled, I would highly recommend have a smith do the work. Having a pro do the work will usually give you a gun you are happier with, and it will probably be cheaper in the long run

+1 and use a recommended cowboy Smith, I had a short stroke along with a barrel swap done on my 66 last year by a guy who said he was trained by one of our sass world champs, never felt quite right now it's at one of our  dependable smiths. Should have done it right the first time would have saved money and frustration.

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As others have already stated, get the rifle done by a top cowboy gunsmith.  However, If you have a little bit of aptitude, it's easy to put  spring kits in your Rugers.  They'll feel like new guns.  There are some very good youtube videos to help you with the process.  You may also like a set of Super Blackhawk hammers for your Rugers.  They are lower than the Vaquero hammers and, in most cases, drop right in.  The hammer swap is not much harder than the spring install.

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I am pretty competent at most things mechanical. Do most of my own maintenance and repairs on all things from trucks to scuba gear, but a gunsmith I am not. I would have no problem doing something that is typically a parts-swap, but wouldn't go as far as to modify a part.

  I will look into the pistol hammers and springs, I can handle that.

 What is the popular opinion of the free-spin modification, and, is it legal for SASS?

 

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Some people like the free-spin modification.  I'm not a big fan.  I don't think it offers much of an advantage for the cost.  It was more popular years back when it was common to have to load an extra pistol round on the clock.

 

I am a big fan of "short-stroked" pistols, but that is a another modification that needs to be done by a top cowboy gunsmith.

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A good set of gunsmith screwdrivers,  brass and steel punches, and do some studying and you can accomplish a lot.  How else are you going to learn?  

 

All of the listed guns have light spring kits available from many sources.   If you can take the gun apart and put it back together,  you can install these parts as well as the next guy.  I get many of these items from MidwayUSA.  I've gotten a few special items for Marlins 1894 from Slick McClade and some from Gunsmith Frank at H&D Gunsmithing.   Ron Powers of Powers Customs is the place to look for Ruger parts.  

 

Now,  I have a CZ-USA Hammer Coach Gun and mine needed nothing done to it. The hammer springs are plant light to cock both at one stroke with a sweep of the top edge of my left hand. It falls open with no problems and shucks shells.  I'm not messing with mine.

 

Installing short stroke kits.. I'd say that's a bigger gamble.  Also, swapping out other action parts such as hammers get into a lot of understanding and skill.  

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14 minutes ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Some people like the free-spin modification.  I'm not a big fan.  I don't think it offers much of an advantage for the cost.  It was more popular years back when it was common to have to load an extra pistol round on the clock.

 

I am a big fan of "short-stroked" pistols, but that is a another modification that needs to be done by a top cowboy gunsmith.

Shot my second match ever, two weeks ago. Had to reload on the clock.

 

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My opinion on the '97 - it's easier to start with and run faster than a SxS because more people have experience with a pump action shotgun. With that said, there's more that can go wrong with a '97.  A well tuned SxS can be run as fast or faster than a '97 but it will take more practice. 

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1 hour ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

I am pretty competent at most things mechanical. Do most of my own maintenance and repairs on all things from trucks to scuba gear, but a gunsmith I am not. I would have no problem doing something that is typically a parts-swap, but wouldn't go as far as to modify a part.

  I will look into the pistol hammers and springs, I can handle that.

 What is the popular opinion of the free-spin modification, and, is it legal for SASS?

 

This was helpful when I started however I use the cut and weld short strokes. You definitely need a competent Smith for those. 

 

http://marauder.homestead.com/irons.html

 

Randy

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1 hour ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

As for the shotty, I will have to practice ALOT more to determine if I start to look for a '97

 

Part of the fun of this game is trying different gun styles and trying to become proficient at using them.   

 

When I started 5 years ago, the 97 was THE gun and I was told that many times.  The majority of folks shot the 97.  I had dad's Stevens 5100 that I'd used since I was a a freshman in high school so that's what I used.  I evolved into using many other doubles since then.  Now the pendulum has swung back to doubles being the top gun.  

 

I had a PW87 for a winter and a spring.  I worked at making it even mechanically functional.  I never got it to be reliable.  I shot it in one match and it was a train wreck!  I sold it for the amount I paid for it and moved on.   Now I have an original Winchester 1887 that I'm working on.  I'll probably shot it in at least one match just because.  

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I got brave and installed a short stroke kit in my Uberti 45 colt rifle. IT took extreme concentration and numerous sessions to get the timing just right. dissemble, file, re assemble, test with dummy rounds, repeat. I took my time and spread the sessions over several days while reviewing the instructions over and over. It was very satisfying once it was done and ran smoothly. It was fun and a great learning experience to me but admittedly it would not be for everyone. I am considering having a good cowboy smith do a SS kit and smoothing/tuning on my Winchester Miroku 45 rifle. That is my main match rifle and now that I am getting better I want it to be the very best it can be. The Uberti is and will remain my back up rifle. It runs smooth and reliable but it is a 24" bbl and my Winchester is a 20" bbl and it suits me better as a main match gun.

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While I agree with what's been said above some things are super easy, like the free spin on a NMV. There is a little Allen screw in front of the hammer down at the bottom. Take that screw out, the little spring and the pin. Done! If you change your mind put it back in. But first check how smooth it spins. A lot of times the pawl/hand rubs and needs to be modified. 

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Other than a short stroke kit, there isn't much to working on vaqueros or '73s that I would say requires a gunsmith. Sure you probably won't be 100% as smooth as a top Smith but you'll be pretty darn close.

 

The freespin mod on nvaqs as was mentioned is free, just remove the little Allen screw and pop out the plunger. If you don't like it, put it back in.

 

Springs in both guns are drop in so feel free to replace those as they will give you the biggest improvement by far to feel and handling. You can also take some mag polish and possibly a file to parts that make contact to smooth them out and deburr them with out any real fear of injury unless you actually remove metal (only use the files on actual burrs that won't go away with mag polish).

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Having just gotten started in CAS, ir may well be a mite early to be looking at ALL those go-fast modifications.  I spent a tad of 20 years as a CAS Gunsmith and found the biggest "Bang for your Buck" is cleaning up the action on your rifle and swapping out those gawd awful OEM springs.  These days you can get good high quality reduced power springs that will install easily.  The same applies to your Rugers.  I personally don't like Rugers but a set of quality springs can go a long way toward user friendly.  Biggest deal on your Rugers is to check the cylinder throats against the bore groove diameter.  It's wrong and needs honing.  Leave your shotgun alone.  You have a nice high quality shotgun in that CZ and the best you can do to it is shoot it.  Shoot it alot.  

 

Good aftermarket springs and practice will do more than all the other speed parts combined.  Have FUN!!

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Have had great luck calling Terry at Online Outpost.  She knows about parts and handles parts from more than 1 source.   Check here web site, nice getting things from one place instead of calling allover.     GW

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40 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Shoot this game for at least one year before you go the race-gun route.

You may decide to go with different guns etc.;)

OLG

 

 

^ This X 1,000.  Make darn sure you've got the guns you want before sinking any extra $$$ into them. 

 

(Dangit!  Did I just agree with Lumpy??? :angry:)

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20 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

Have had great luck calling Terry at Online Outpost.  She knows about parts and handles parts from more than 1 source.   Check here web site, nice getting things from one place instead of calling allover.     GW

 

I've gotten more or less all my tuning parts from her as well. Great prices and really great service.

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6 hours ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

Shot my second match ever, two weeks ago. Had to reload on the clock.

 

 

Yikes!  Pistol reloads are not that common anymore in our neck of the woods.  Our local stage writers would be in fear of their lives.

 

We did have a rifle reload last match, however.

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6 hours ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

Shot my second match ever, two weeks ago. Had to reload on the clock.

 

 

We only shot at local matches but in 5 years I've only shot 3 stages that took loading on the clock and they were rifle.  Two were just throw in 10th round. In one stage at our October match, we had to load 5 on the clock with rifle.

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As Colorado Coffinmaker says change the springs in the Rugers & Uberti 73.  Before you change the springs in the Uberti get the Brownells magnatip bits that fit the screws; because, if the gun has never been disassemble the screws were tightened by Guido the 800lb. gorilla in Brescia Italy.  By the way you might want to get a set of hardened replacement screws; because, even with proper hallow ground screw bits you may bugger the screws up trying to remove them. 

Note: Contrary to the instructions that come with the Ruger springs you don't have to remove the grip frame.  If you remove the grip frame it is a PITA to reassemble deaIing with those tiny coil springs.  I discovered this with the 1st Vaquero I replaced the hammer & trigger springs.  The 2nd one I examined the process & determined that all you have to do to replace the trigger spring is remove the hammer.  It also helps to have a drill press & vice to change the hammer spring.  Chuck up the strut, open the vice just wider than the strut thickness, lower the chuck to depress the spring, remove the pin holding the shoe, remove shoe & OEM spring, install lighter spring & shoe, clamp shoe in vice, compress spring and insert pin. 

P.S.  Besides the Ruger short stoke mod. speeding up one hand hold cocking I believe it also eliminates the necessity to go around if your thumb slips off the hammer spur before it is cocked.  Not a rare fail with Rugers. 

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5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Shoot this game for at least one year before you go the race-gun route.

You may decide to go with different guns etc.;)

OLG

 

I can appreciate that logic. I know how progression can lead to change. I am one of those guys however, that keeps his guns even when he gets new ones.lol.

 

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1 minute ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

I can appreciate that logic. I know how progression can lead to change. I am one of those guys however, that keeps his guns even when he gets new ones.lol.

 

that is all well and good if you have unlimited funds to work over all the guns you get. Don't fault you for keeping them, just don't suggest having them all worked up until you have a feel for what you want

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3 hours ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

 

Yikes!  Pistol reloads are not that common anymore in our neck of the woods.  Our local stage writers would be in fear of their lives.

 

We did have a rifle reload last match, however.

Yeah, it was a hoot. Lots of shoot and move,  pistol reload, 6-8 shotgun targets, the works.

I guess I'm getting a good first taste.

I am shooting with a couple different local clubs here in N.Central FL. I am fortunate to have several within an hour or two. 

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4 minutes ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

that is all well and good if you have unlimited funds to work over all the guns you get. Don't fault you for keeping them, just don't suggest having them all worked up until you have a feel for what you want

Yeah, really just asking the basic questions and getting a general opinion from those in the know before I decide what, and when to do anything at all.

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6 minutes ago, Chertrock Chuck said:

Yeah, it was a hoot. Lots of shoot and move,  pistol reload, 6-8 shotgun targets, the works.

I guess I'm getting a good first taste.

I am shooting with a couple different local clubs here in N.Central FL. I am fortunate to have several within an hour or two. 

 

Chertrock,

If you're riding the trails down in N.Central Florida, you are among some of the finest folks around..... PLUS, 

some world class shooters that you can get the best instructions anywhere.

 

Good luck on your guns and shooting future in CAS.   Its a blast.

 

..........Widder

 

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Forgot!!  Oops!!  This is really REALLY important.  :ph34r: There are almost NO DROP IN parts. :o Plan for everything you buy after-market to require some fitting. :wacko: Plan for almost everything you buy from the manufacturer of your guns to require some fitting. :angry: Plan for everything you do, to take four times as long as you think it will   :rolleyes: 

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7 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Forgot!!  Oops!!  This is really REALLY important.  :ph34r: There are almost NO DROP IN parts. :o Plan for everything you buy after-market to require some fitting. :wacko: Plan for almost everything you buy from the manufacturer of your guns to require some fitting. :angry: Plan for everything you do, to take four times as long as you think it will   :rolleyes: 

 

Nobody ever said ole Colorado Coffinmaker didn't know what he's talking about.

 

Well..... atleast I never heard anybody say it...... :D

 

..........Widder

 

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Thanks for all the replies.

I'm just poking around a little to see what general opinions are.I have several other guns I will eventually bring into my rotation as I settle in.

I'm really not in it to win any title or trophy, it's just too much darn good fun for all that (IMO) but I would like to tinker with my toys and get them set up as well as is typical.

The Rugers seem very solid and I like them very much, they just don't spin very freely yet, and I'm not much of a fan of the tall/vertical hammer.

I handled another shooters tuned NMV and they were a difference of night and day from my own, new, stock pair.

My shotgun seems to be pretty nice as for dropping open and shucking empty hulls (even cheap, ribbed hulls) but could use chambers rounded, as they have very sharp edges. 

The rifle came from the factory with the spring tension so light, that it would fail to light 1 or 2 rounds out of 10. Delta Glenn was kind enough to take care of that and show me how and why it was happening. His father RC Bernal, AKA Dead Lakes Walker is a cowboy smith and has offered his services.

I will be speaking with DLW soon about all of this.

 Chertrock.

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