45Colt reloading powder/bullets/brass?

[BLACKFOOT SASS #11947]

21 hours ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

I buy my Clays at around 136.00 for 8lbs . that is 56000 grains of powder. At 5 grains per round loaded, I get a little over 11000 rounds per 8 lb container. If my math is correct that is about .002 cents per round

 

I think you need to do the math again.  Just saying

Blackfoot

[Bull Skinner]

Quote

 

My my bad, double checked my math and you are correct.

[Hillbilly Drifter]

okie dokie then....

[Hillbilly Drifter]

.0123 cents per round. Thanks Blackfoot

[Griff]

But... the price listed for Trail Boss in the 2 lb jug is only per pound... significantly impacts price per round.  And... I'd suggest taking the price per pound out to at least 3 decimal places... 

 

Also, the calculation should be 437.5 grains per oz.  and for RedDot, while my chart was using 6.5 grains... a better load for cowboy action is around 5.9-6 grains... with either a 200 or 250 grain bullet.

[AleveredAction]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

But... the price listed for Trail Boss in the 2 lb jug is only per pound... significantly impacts price per round.  And... I'd suggest taking the price per pound out to at least 3 decimal places... 

 

Also, the calculation should be 437.5 grains per oz.  and for RedDot, while my chart was using 6.5 grains... a better load for cowboy action is around 5.9-6 grains... with either a 200 or 250 grain bullet.

 

Made some tweaks to the sheet from what you said. 

 

Not sure I know what you mean about Trail boss...I have listed the the prices and what size bottles those prices are for.

[AleveredAction]

2 hours ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

.0123 cents per round. Thanks Blackfoot

 

Is that $136 from online or do you have a local shop that has it for that price? Shipping is what kills you on all these supplies.

[Hillbilly Drifter]

10 minutes ago, AleveredAction said:

 

Is that $136 from online or do you have a local shop that has it for that price? Shipping is what kills you on all these supplies.

I found it locally. I sometime get together with some shooting buddies and do a group buy from Powder valley. They will allow up to 42 lbs for one hazmat fee. Their shipping is way cheaper than other places (like Natchez for example)

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

14 hours ago, AleveredAction said:

 

 

 

Makes sense since I've bought the American Quality Ammo(SWC) I listed before and had probably about 20 jams or so 2 of which where pretty bad. RNFP seems the way to go like you've pointed out.

 

I've never even seen the mention of bullet hardness. Granted I've never been looking for it or even knew it was a thing. Isn't the diameter suppose to be .452?

AS gave you the information you need regarding bullet hardness so I will not comment further.  Regarding bullet diameter, some of the casters I deal with size their bullets for 45 Colt to both .452 and .454 inches.  Some sell them unsized to those who wish to size and lube their own bullets.  I use bullets sized to .452 for my Wild Bunch 45 ACP loads.  I'm not sure .452 will give you the accuracy you seek in your Marlin.  I recommend buying a sample pack of 100 bullets and testing them before you purchase thousands.

 

There are inexpensive alternatives to plain cast bullets for your rifle.  Plastic coated bullets are gaining popularity for CAS.  Their advantages over uncoated bullets are that the reloader is not exposed to lead (a heavy metal poison) and reloading dies don't accumulate lubricant and lead shavings.  Copper plated bullets are another possibility.  These are less expensive than jacketed bullets and offer the same advantages as plastic coated bullets.  They are not legal for CAS but are good for plinking.  I use them in 45 ACP loads for modern action pistol shooting.

 

Keep us posted on your progress.  It would be fun to see a picture or you, your rifle and a target shot at 100 yards with a tight group.

 

[Griff]

9 hours ago, AleveredAction said:

Not sure I know what you mean about Trail boss...I have listed the the prices and what size bottles those prices are for.

The price.  the best price I found for the 2 lb jug of Trail Boss is thru Mid-South @ $51.99

[Juan Solo]

58 minutes ago, Griff said:

The price.  the best price I found for the 2 lb jug of Trail Boss is thru Mid-South @ $51.99

Check Brownells

[AleveredAction]

Just now, El Cubano said:

Check Brownells

 

58 minutes ago, Griff said:

The price.  the best price I found for the 2 lb jug of Trail Boss is thru Mid-South @ $51.99

 

 

My spreadsheet includes links to all the prices I reference. Click the title of the item.

[Griff]

10 minutes ago, AleveredAction said:

My spreadsheet includes links to all the prices I reference. Click the title of the item.

That's a heck of a bargain!

[AleveredAction]

Hopefully some other people here will find it useful. If anyone wants I can add more powders and bullets. Or if anyone wants one for another caliper I'd be happy to do it. Now I just need to start finding out what kind of bullets my rifle prefers. 

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

On 11/15/2018 at 9:08 AM, Hillbilly Drifter said:

I buy my Clays at around 136.00 for 8lbs . that is 56000 grains of powder. At 5 grains per round loaded, I get a little over 11000 rounds per 8 lb container. If my math is correct that is about .002 cents per round

136.00 dollars is 13600 cents

11000 divided into 13600 gives you about 1.2  cents per round

 

Corrected from 2.2 to 1.2 cents.  I was so intent on getting the decimal place right that I fumbled the easy part

[Hillbilly Drifter]

1 hour ago, Mack Hacker, #60477 said:

136.00 dollars is 13600 cents

11000 divided into 13600 gives you about 2.2  cents per round

Thanks. Sometimes good cowboys aint good at arithmetic lol

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Figuring this circumstance down to the 4th decimal point has been interesting to watch.  Pointless, but interesting.  Now we are going to the process of finding a bullet the rifle likes.  I'd suggest starting at 200Gr with a RNFP or perhaps a Truncated Cone.  Just insure both have a very well defined crimp groove.  Bullets shorter than 200Gr don't have sufficient contact surface to engage the rifling well and are too short in relation to cross section for a decent ballistic coefficient.  Past 75 yards they just sort of wander around.  

 

Next item up for bids is Blow-By.  Our Hero is loading 45 Colt for a Marlin.  The design of the Fish directs the blow-by directly back at the shooter.  With 45 Colt, there will be blow-by ...... unless ....... intrepid Hero anneals his cases .... or ... starts with 44-40 cases and processes the 44 WCF cases as 45s.

[AleveredAction]

4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Figuring this circumstance down to the 4th decimal point has been interesting to watch.  Pointless, but interesting.  Now we are going to the process of finding a bullet the rifle likes.  I'd suggest starting at 200Gr with a RNFP or perhaps a Truncated Cone.  Just insure both have a very well defined crimp groove.  Bullets shorter than 200Gr don't have sufficient contact surface to engage the rifling well and are too short in relation to cross section for a decent ballistic coefficient.  Past 75 yards they just sort of wander around.  

 

Next item up for bids is Blow-By.  Our Hero is loading 45 Colt for a Marlin.  The design of the Fish directs the blow-by directly back at the shooter.  With 45 Colt, there will be blow-by ...... unless ....... intrepid Hero anneals his cases .... or ... starts with 44-40 cases and processes the 44 WCF cases as 45s.

 

 

Is blow by a serious problem or more of an annoyance/loss of fps? I wasn't aware people annealed their cases. Like a legit annealing in a forge or do people just throw them in an oven or use a torch?

[Captain Clark]

21 hours ago, AleveredAction said:

. Now I just need to start finding out what kind of bullets my rifle prefers. 

Round ones would be my guess 

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

53 minutes ago, AleveredAction said:

 

 

Is blow by a serious problem or more of an annoyance/loss of fps? I wasn't aware people annealed their cases. Like a legit annealing in a forge or do people just throw them in an oven or use a torch?

Blow by can happen.  (I saw lightly loaded cases come out a shooter's rifle today totally covered with soot.)  However, if you load your rounds near the maximum published loads for the powder/bullet combination you chose, the case will seal better against the chamber wall reducing the amount of blow by.  I shoot unanealed 44 mags in a Marlin rifle in Wild Bunch and never notice blow by.  I trust you are wearing shooting glasses when shooting you Marlin.   They protect your eyes from blow by and lead backscatter.

 

The bullet weight and profile CC recommended is a good starting point.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

6 hours ago, AleveredAction said:

 

 

Is blow by a serious problem or more of an annoyance/loss of fps? I wasn't aware people annealed their cases. Like a legit annealing in a forge or do people just throw them in an oven or use a torch?

It can be a problem. The lighter the load, the more blow by occurs in a .45 Colt. I've seen many shooters load a 180 or 200 gr slug with minimum charges of powder. With those loads, I notice a lot of smoke blasting from between the bolt face and chamber. Some have complained of debris hitting them in the face. 

Years ago I tried downloading .45 Colt cases (about 25% above minimum) with a 200 grain bullet. What I got was a filthy receiver at the end of the match. Some on this forum recommended increasing the powder charge, which helped a bit. By the time I was well past mid-point though and using a lot of powder, another pard suggested a heavier bullet like a 250. That worked very well because the larger bullet builds more pressure in the case which aids sealing the chamber. The bonus is a heavier bullet requires less powder.

 

Some will say the 'extra' recoil from the larger slug is too much for them. I don't notice much of a difference in a rifle, certainly not enough to make me care. To each his own, no criticism toward them. I stuck with that bullet until I sold that '92 Rossi/Winchester.

 

Since then, my large cal rifle, an 1860 Uberti Henry, is a 44-40. After that, I doubt I'll ever own another .45 Colt rifle. Never wanted to spend the time annealing cases.

 

YMMV.  Have fun!

 

[Griff]

11 hours ago, AleveredAction said:

Is blow by a serious problem or more of an annoyance/loss of fps? I wasn't aware people annealed their cases. Like a legit annealing in a forge or do people just throw them in an oven or use a torch?

All manner of annealing processes have been described here in the past.  I don't bother.  I shoot both smokeless and BP in my 45 Colt rifles, (BP mainly in the 1873s & Henry), and keep my loads on the low to mid points on the range of powder charges... Blowby with BP is a problem... I usually have to clean the rifle after each days' shooting.  Mainly as the fouling on the carrier would get crusty overnite.  I did have trouble with the Henry as the tolerances on the carrier were very tight when new... The first match I shot BP thru it, I didn't get finished with the first stage before it gummed up.  Since then, a little judicious "clearancing" of the carrier has virtually eliminated that issue.  

 

I keep my smokeless loads legal for WB, at least 800fps with 200 grain bullets, and have negligible to no issue with blowby.  (Literally, I don't notice it).  With BP, I shoot a 225gr pill with a tight crimp...  And with these, blowby is a factor, in that the accompanying fouling will stick to the carrier and eventually gum it up.  It varies among the 6 rifles I have, so I can't say unequivocally that I've eliminated the problem... but I've ceased stressin' over what's essentially a "non-issue".   With smokeless, I can shoot a couple or three monthly 6 stage one day matches, a 12 stage match over 3 days, then for no reason at all, get a wild hair and decide to clean the gun... Or... as in the case of my 1892... it still shoots to POA, why mess with success?  Now... the 1885 had some jacketed ammo shot out of it... so I HAD to clean it, in order to shoot cast with any confidence...  There are all sorts of reasons to clean a gun... but a 45 Colt rifle with sensible loads, blow-by ain't one of them... 

 

But, then I don't flinch from shooting a flintlock either.

[Ron "Ironhead" Smith]

On 11/16/2018 at 8:56 AM, Hillbilly Drifter said:

I found it locally. I sometime get together with some shooting buddies and do a group buy from Powder valley. They will allow up to 42 lbs for one hazmat fee. Their shipping is way cheaper than other places (like Natchez for example)

Get on the email lists for Reloading Unlimited, Midway, Brownell's. Midsouth, Graf & Son and Widener's. They all run free hazmat sales on various powders, usually you have to order $150-$200 of qualifying powders. In fact do it TODAY as I'm betting at least three of them will run such a special next weekend.
 

On 11/16/2018 at 10:33 AM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Their advantages over uncoated bullets are that the reloader is not exposed to lead (a heavy metal poison)

 

STOP right there! Elemental lead is not the insidious hazard folks think it is, you literally have to eat it to be affected by it. It is not skin absorbable. Kindergarten level basic hygiene (hot water and soap) eliminates the problem. Wash your hands after handling lead bullets, either casting or reloading and you're good. 48 years in electronics manufacturing handling lead alloys every day and studies done at NASA bear this out. The smoke from fluxing your lead pot does not contain lead "fumes" either, that's flux smoke. Lead doesn't go from liquid to gas until 3129F, your lead pot isn't even close but you should have good ventilation to avoid breathing the nasty flux smoke. Again that's from studies NASA techs forced on idiot earth science, greenie interns that saw smoke and assumed metal fumes. As an extension of that at one point I wangled some test kits, including air quality monitors to figure out where shooters and reloaders need to be careful.

Wash your hands before eating, drinking or smoking, don't touch your mouth and you'll be fine.

The primary source of lead dangerous to shooters is primer smoke and residue. Most primers contain lead styphnate and lead azide, both are present in primer smoke and both are skin absorbable and of course inhalable. Poorly ventilated indoor ranges are more concern to you than handling or casting lead bullets. There's a reason even in well ventilated indoor ranges that RSOs have a rotation schedule.

If you just shoot your greatest danger is cleaning the breech or cylinder of your gun. 3 mil, disposable nitrile gloves work just fine, change them at least once an hour or if they get a tear. afterward wash your hands!

If you reload your greatest danger is case cleaning and it's the worst danger of all of them (partly because nobody ever thinks about it). Dry tumblers are the worst culprit. That dust? Yeah that has primer residue in it and can contaminate out to five feet away from the tumbler, that's a 10' diameter area. Don't breathe the dust and wear nitrile gloves! Keep the dust down as best you can. Wet tumblers are nasty too but it's all in the black water you pour out, wear nitrile gloves and rinse the residue off the freshly tumbled cases well and for God's sake not in your kitchen sink. Wash your hands!

Do you see two common themes there? When handling nasty chemicals wear protective, disposable gloves and WASH YOUR HANDS!

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Here is the EPA's advice to the public regarding lead exposure: https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-02/documents/lead_in_your_home_brochure_land_b_w_508_easy_print_0.pdf.  The  document primarily concerns lead-based paint.  This summer I sold some D-Lead hand soap at EOT to a Dutchman who is a commercial bullet caster in Europe.  He showed me the damage lead exposure did to him.  I will continue loading a shooting cast lead bullets and will thoroughly wash my hands with D-Lead after lead exposure.

 

BTW, this thread is drifting.  Time to move back to the OP's question about loading 45 Colt for a Marlin rifle.

[Cholla Hill Tirador]

   I understand the allure of shooting as much as possible while paying as little as possible (I'm a bullet caster), but there's something else you need to consider. If you ever intend to shoot 45 Colt fixed sighted revolvers, the lighter 200 gr. bullets, at distances beyond typical CAS ranges, will impact very low as 45 Colt revolvers are designed and for the most part regulated to hit to the sights with 250-ish gr. bullets at 850-ish fps at the muzzle, which is the ballistics of the original load.   I got some 200 gr. cast bullets in on a deal for some 45 Colt brass and loaded them. From my revolvers I found them next to worthless at 25 yds. because they impacted so low vs. the 250-255 gr. bullets I normally shoot. Now if all you ever shoot is your Marlin with its adjustable sights, pick your favorite bullet and go forth.

 

  As for powder, I balance the least expensive, but most readily available that will give me the velocity I mentioned with the bullet weight I'd mentioned. Red Dot and 700-X are very popular powders for loading 12 ga. target loads, which makes them easy to find, and either loaded at 6.5 grs., duplicates the original load and these loads are very accurate as far out as 75 yds. in my revolvers. And at 6.5 grs. you'll get almost 1100 rounds from a pound of powder.

 

  CHT

[Three Foot Johnson]

There must be at least 30 smokeless powders that will work in 45 Colt... see what's available locally, and the price, then put all the names on a dartboard and throw a dart.

 

E3

Titewad

Red Dot

Promo

Clays

Clay Dot

International Clays

Universal Clays

700X

Bullseye

Power Pistol

American Select

Titegroup

Solo 1000

Green Dot

WST

Trail Boss

Unique

HP38

W231

Herco

AA #2

AA #5

Ramshot Competition

Ramshot Zip

 

[Flint N. Steele]

On 11/14/2018 at 10:40 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

Nah.  None of the above.  Starline brass.  Federal Primers.  APP about 20Gr, topped with Cream-0-Wheat and a 200Gr RNFP.  

 

Won't necessarily be cheap to shoot but twill be some FUN!!!

I use 2.3 CC of APP, no filler required.  And, it goes "BOOM!"

[Blackface Charlie]

On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:44 AM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

6.5-7.0gn of Unique with 220-260 gn lead bullet.

Use a firm roll crimp.

OLG

 Lumpy---why do you use such a heavy bullet?   

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

12 hours ago, Blackface Charlie said:

 Lumpy---why do you use such a heavy bullet?   

I load .45 Colt with 250-255 gn

And my SASS .44 mag with 240.

Every one hears it when I hit steel-

OLG