.45 Colt 180 grain bullets Trail Boss

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

I have a  buddy who is going to start reloading.  He likes a 180 grain bullets and has decided on using Trail Boss.

I have no experience with Trail Boss.  None.

The plan is to start with a 6 0 grains.

 

I know this is within the range.

 

Anyone have a pet load they would be willing to share? 

[Bulldog Brown]

what I use with TB and 180gr. is 5gr TB in my pistols and 6gr with 200gr. Bulldog Brown

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

Thanks for your responce.

[Juan Solo]

Double post

[Juan Solo]

I havent tried 180gr, but with 200gr I was able to get down to about 4.1gr before it started getting inconsistent. I bumped it back up to 4.5 as a safety measure and it went back to being perfectly consistent in pistol and rifle.

 

6gr is going to be a pretty heavy load as even 5.5 was throwing it with authority (at least for sass loads). You may want to start around 5 gr and work a little up and down from that.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

31 minutes ago, El Cubano said:

I havent tried 180gr, but with 200gr I was able to get down to about 4.1gr before it started getting inconsistent. I bumped it back up to 4.5 as a safety measure and it went back to being perfectly consistent in pistol and rifle. Are you using these loads for .45 Colt? If so, please see below.

These loads are well below the loading range according to Hodgdon's tables. The range for the 180 gr bullet is 6.0 - 7.3 gr of Trail Boss. The range for 200 gr bullets 5.5 - 6.5 gr of TB. When I shoot this cartridge (200 gr bullet) in smokeless, it's 6.0 gr for me which provides reliable ignition and mild recoil. My years of experience with TB is that it's a poor performing, dirty powder at the bottom end of the range for .45 Colt. YMMV.

 

6gr is going to be a pretty heavy load as even 5.5 was throwing it with authority (at least for sass loads). You may want to start around 5 gr and work a little up and down from that.

6 gr is the minimum published load for a 200 gr.45 Colt. If that's considered a heavy load, you ought to be looking at a smaller case such as Schofield or Cowboy Special. 

Chuck, please tell your friend to get a good loading manual and stick to published data. I can't emphasize that enough. If he can find a mentor who can show him the reloading process, so much the better.

 

I hate to sound like a stern schoolmarm, but suggesting loads that are outside published data to a newbie reloader is a really bad idea.

[Will Kane]

I've had pretty good success loading 180 grain bullets over 3.5 grains of Trail Boss in Cowboy Special cases for my pistols, and 200 grain bullets over 6.0 grains of Trail Boss in 45 Colt cases for my rifle.

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

You'II get  blowback &  dirty cases  using 4.5 --5.0 grains but power factor & velocity are fine, some like to load  6--7 grains which is  also  fine but like using more BP than you need, it's just a waste of powder IMHO

Powder makers up the anti when it comes to minimums because of  the possibility of liability..load  a heap with different quantities & then go try .Settle on the one for you that has the most  ticks !!..YMMV

[Juan Solo]

1 minute ago, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

You'II get  blowback &  dirty cases  using 4.5 --5.0 grains but power factor & velocity are fine, some like to load  6--7 grains which is  also  fine but like using more BP than you need, it's just a waste of powder IMHO

Powder makers up the anti when it comes to minimums because of  the possibility of liability..load  a heap with different quantities & then go try .Settle on the one for you that has the most  ticks !!..YMMV

 

Yes, the cases are definitely dirty at 4.5 due to the blow by. As you said though I worked these loads up using a Chrono and while it is 1gr under the hodgdon minimum it was still chrono'ing consistently. Once I went below 4.5 is when I started getting really poor consistency.

[Lucky R. K.]

10 hours ago, Will Kane said:

I've had pretty good success loading 180 grain bullets over 3.5 grains of Trail Boss in Cowboy Special cases for my pistols, and 200 grain bullets over 6.0 grains of Trail Boss in 45 Colt cases for my rifle.

When I shoot smokeless, which isn't often, this is the exact loading I use for both the rifle and pistol.

Lucky

[Sarge]

5.5 gr. trailboss in .45 Colt case.  3.6 in C.45S.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Why does he want to use TB, when there are so many other powders that meter much better?

Have him look at Unique and WW-231.

OLG

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

13 hours ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Chuck, please tell your friend to get a good loading manual and stick to published data. I can't emphasize that enough. If he can find a mentor who can show him the reloading process, so much the better.

 

I hate to sound like a stern schoolmarm, but suggesting loads that are outside published data to a newbie reloader is a really bad idea.

Slim, He's a newbie.  I'm helping him get started.  I did check the Hodgeon data.  6.0 is the lowest listed.  I have been coaching him over the phone and I will be going to his house on Monday to work with him directly.  He bought the press used and I will be checking all the settings before the handle gets pulled.  No, I don't want to be responsible for any damage to either his pistols nor his hands. 

I was looking for some enlightenment from any and all who have used Trail Boss.  I know some who load only from the published data and some who play fast and loose, so to speak, with what has been published.  I'm not too afraid of stepping out of the recommended but you have to do it in small increments and carefully check your results.

Your words of caution have not fallen on deaf ears.  He was going to plow forward and I stopped him.  I want to be there to make sure he does it correctly.  He's a smart guy with the intelligence and ability.

Thanks Pard. 

[Eyesa Horg]

Chuck, I started out with 6gr. of TB under a 200gr. bullet and finally switched to Clays. The TB was so dirty, especially in the rifle mights well of been shooting BP. YMMV

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

33 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why does he want to use TB, when there are so many other powders that meter much better?

Have him look at Unique and WW-231.

OLG

The Trail Boss affection comes from some of our other shooters.  The unlikely event of a double charge.

I use 231 and HP-38 exclusively for my reloads.  it's been my GO TO powder for everything.  But you can double or even triple charge a case.

 

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

3 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

Chuck, I started out with 6gr. of TB under a 200gr. bullet and finally switched to Clays. The TB was so dirty, especially in the rifle mights well of been shooting BP. YMMV

Eyesa,

I prefer 231 or HP-38 but he wants to start with Trail Boss.  He's banking on the fluffiness of the powder and that it fills the case.  He's concerned, and he should be, about a double charge.

 

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

To all who responded, Thanks!  I do appreciate that you took the time and trouble to help.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

7 minutes ago, Chuck Would, SASS # 53289 said:

The Trail Boss affection comes from some of our other shooters.  The unlikely event of a double charge.

I use 231 and HP-38 exclusively for my reloads.  it's been my GO TO powder for everything.  But you can double or even triple charge a case.

 

Very easy to over charge any handgun case when not paying attention. 

I say that as someone who has been reloading for 50+ yrs.

WW231 and HP38 are the same powder. My #2 choice for SASS.

I use Unique, for ALL of my SASS loading.

OLG

 

 

 

[Major Bill]

For a rifle in Wild Bunch I use 5.7 trail boss, meet lower end of power factors.

[Tex Jones, SASS 2263]

If your friend gets reliable ignition at the lower end of the ranges mentioned he'll still have to contend with unburned powder, which can happen with TB.  Magnum primers can be useful for that in a large capacity case and won't bump up the pressure to any large degree as long as the charge is at the lower end of the scale.  Also, he has to be aware that those doughnut shaped grains of TB are so light that they can pop out of cases as the press is being used.  All in all, better powders are available, but it is a good way to prevent double charging, at least until he gets more comfortable with the process. I have used the 6.0 grain charge with a 180 gr bullet and it works fine.

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Very easy to over charge any handgun case when not paying attention. 

I say that as someone who has been reloading for 50+ yrs.

WW231 and HP38 are the same powder. My #2 choice for SASS.

I use Unique, for ALL of my SASS loading.

OLG

 

 

 

Exactly.  And as he's new to reloading, Trail Boss might be his friend.  At least for now.  My industrial experience tells me that someone who is new to something or someone who's been doing it for many years are more likely to have an accident than someone who's in the middle level of experience.  Trail Boss would not be my 1st choice but in this case, I don't think it's a bad idea.

 

I am well aware that 231 and HP38 are the same powder.  Found that out during the dry powder spell back during the Obama administration.  I use them interchangeably but never in the same powder measure.  Yeah, I probably could but, no.  Crazy, yes.  Stupid , NO!  LOL

I started out with 231 and it's served me well.  I went to HP38 when I couldn't find 231.  Right now I'm running down the supply of HP-38 and have some 231 as back up. I have a 1# bottle of Unique in stock as well but I've never used it.  Some day when I get bored, I'll try it.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Give the Unique a try.

99.9999999999999999% of reloading screw-ups are caused from distraction.

When I'm reloading-There's no one around, and the phone is off. I do have a radio on.

I'm pretty OCD about it-Maybe it from my years of dealing with explosives etc.

Hope your friend has a mentor to watch over him. Hope he takes notes etc.

Wish him all the best. 

OLG

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

OLG,

I have the duty as Mentor.  I will be watching him like a hawk.

For the time being he will be loading only .45 Colt, so once it's set up it will be for only one caliber.

He's not afraid to ask questions and I have no issues  answering. 

I have instilled some good fear into him so he will take it all very seriously.  I'll go over NO distractions with him tomorrow.  He will get it.  Like I said he's a bright guy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[J.D. Daily]

9 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why does he want to use TB, when there are so many other powders that meter much better?

Have him look at Unique and WW-231.

OLG

Velcro a battery operated aquarium air pump to the powder measure cover to get consistent powder drops.  It cut the powder drop variation in half on my XL650 that I has an aftermarket powder baffle to reduce the measured variation from full to low powder levels.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

11 hours ago, Chuck Would, SASS # 53289 said:

OLG,

I have the duty as Mentor.  I will be watching him like a hawk.

For the time being he will be loading only .45 Colt, so once it's set up it will be for only one caliber.

He's not afraid to ask questions and I have no issues  answering. 

I have instilled some good fear into him so he will take it all very seriously.  I'll go over NO distractions with him tomorrow.  He will get it.  Like I said he's a bright guy.

Thanks for your thoughts.

PLZ encourage him to sign onto this forum.

OLG

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

8 hours ago, J.D. Daily said:

Velcro a battery operated aquarium air pump to the powder measure cover to get consistent powder drops.  It cut the powder drop variation in half on my XL650 that I has an aftermarket powder baffle to reduce the measured variation from full to low powder levels.

OLG

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

PLZ encourage him to sign onto this forum.

OLG

That I will.

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

OLG

I use rubber bands to affix a pump to mine.  I'll be there this morning.  It's going to be a long discussion.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Would, SASS # 53289 said:

I use rubber bands to affix a pump to mine.  I'll be there this morning.  It's going to be a long discussion.

Have him take notes.

I have taught many to reload over the decades. IMO, best to start on a single stage and then go to a progressive.

PLZ give WW231 and Unique a go.

OLG

[Juan Solo]

I'm not sure which press he's on, but if it's a Hornady powder drop, try not using the baffle with TB. I actually have worse luck with the baffle versus with out it. Every other powder is better with the baffle but the TB just doesn't fill in under it fast enough.

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

14 minutes ago, El Cubano said:

I'm not sure which press he's on, but if it's a Hornady powder drop, try not using the baffle with TB. I actually have worse luck with the baffle versus with out it. Every other powder is better with the baffle but the TB just doesn't fill in under it fast enough.

It's a Dillon 650.  I have heard that TB does not meter well.  We'll find out today.

 

[J.D. Daily]

5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

OLG

I found the air pump fix on Brian Enos's internet forum.  The vibration settles the loose low density donuts.

The worst thing about TB is because of it's low density as well as grain shape.  Some of the grains in the case are shaken out between station 2 & 3 and 3 & 4.  I have added the aftermarket shell plate indexing ball/spring kit and bearing kit.  These help reduce the powder mess with TB. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

5 hours ago, Chuck Would, SASS # 53289 said:

It's a Dillon 650.  I have heard that TB does not meter well.  We'll find out today.

 

Keeping the powder measure relatively full helps things. Every now and then, tap the powder measure to help settle the powder.

[Sleepy Floyd]

Chuck.

The powder die on that press was set for 5.8gn of Trailboss. Never had an issue with the powder being inconsistent. Try that as your starting point.  I used 200 RNFP with it.

 

Sleepy Floyd.

 

Teach him well.

[Chuck Would, SASS # 53289]

Floyd,

And it was still set at 5.8 when he filled it.  He's using 180 grain.  We upped it to 6.0 and it was holding right there.

He had an accident the night before and broke a bone in his foot.  He fought through the pain for the 1st lesson.  We got about 30 loaded but now he has to hit the range and put them on paper before loading any more and that might be a while.  5-6 weeks.  He's not happy.

He also has to move the press to a spot he has more room.  Both around the press and head room.  He has an duct overhead that is interfering with the Primer rod. 

I will be heading back to his house for lesson number two when he's on the mend and can stand for a while.  I like it when the "teacher" becomes the student.  And I haven't told him about the pop quiz I have in store for him.  LOL

Floyd, you gave him a good deal on the press.