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Butt forward gunfighter


Cimarron Jones

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I can't find anything in the SASS guidelines that prohibits carrying revolvers "butt forward," except to say that you must make sure you don't break the 170 or sweep anyone. I shoot Schofields gunfighter style, not very quickly but I don't care, and I just think it would be fun if I can do it correctly and safely. Anyone out there doing it already?

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Gunfighter style competitors are prohibited from utilizing a simultaneous 
“double cross draw” method of drawing or holstering revolvers.

 

Pg. 6

 

Even thought a cavalry draw like above is not technically a crossdraw, I would still lean towards both revolvers worn grip forward would be considered illegal.

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24 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Gunfighter style competitors are prohibited from utilizing a simultaneous 
“double cross draw” method of drawing or holstering revolvers.

 

Pg. 6

 

Even thought a cavalry draw like above is not technically a crossdraw, I would still lean towards both revolvers worn grip forward would be considered illegal.

Nope. That's incorrect. Butt forward is perfectly legal. It was made so a couple of years ago. I shoot my 1851's that way a couple of times a year. It's surprisingly easy and very safe. And it wears well. Quite comfortable.

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24 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Gunfighter style competitors are prohibited from utilizing a simultaneous 
“double cross draw” method of drawing or holstering revolvers.

 

Pg. 6

 

Even though a cavalry draw like above is not technically a crossdraw, I would still lean towards both revolvers worn grip forward would be considered illegal.

 

You would be leaning the wrong direction...that method of carry & draw is LEGAL in all categories.

 

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8 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

You would be leaning the wrong direction...that method of carry & draw is LEGAL in all categories.

 

 

So, butt forward fine for gunfighter as long as it isn't 2 crossdraw holsters?

 

Or are 2 crossdraw holsters ok as well if you draw both with the cavalry draw method? 

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8 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

So, butt forward fine for gunfighter as long as it isn't 2 crossdraw holsters?

 

Or are 2 crossdraw holsters ok as well if you draw both with the cavalry draw method? 

 

REF: SHB pp. 6-7

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5 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

REF: SHB pp. 6-7

I have read it.  Again it's not the design of the holster, but the method of drawing/holstering?

 

So 2 crossdraw holsters with with less than 30 degrees of cant can be worn as long as one uses a cavalry/twist method? 

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I have read it.  Again it's not the design of the holster, but the method of drawing/holstering?

 

So 2 crossdraw holsters with with less than 30 degrees of cant can be worn as long as one uses a cavalry/twist method? 

Where does it say no x-draw holsters?

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I'm not sure you would *WANT* to use a Calvary draw with a forward cant.  I think that would put your wrist at a really awkward position on the draw, unless you've got a really short barrel.

 

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38 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I have read it.  Again it's not the design of the holster, but the method of drawing/holstering?

 

So 2 crossdraw holsters with with less than 30 degrees of cant can be worn as long as one uses a cavalry/twist method? 

 

The restriction for GF-style shooters is "no simultaneous double crossdraw", regardless of holster angle.


(BTW - the "left-side revolver with the left hand and the right-side revolver with the right hand – regardless of how they are drawn from leather." verbiage is under review for deletion.)

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2 hours ago, Red Eye Jim said:

I'm not sure you would *WANT* to use a Calvary draw with a forward cant.  I think that would put your wrist at a really awkward position on the draw, unless you've got a really short barrel.

 

My 51's are 7.5" barrels. Not a problem at all for wrist position. It's really not all that difficult. Just takes some getting used to it with practice.

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3 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

My 51's are 7.5" barrels. Not a problem at all for wrist position. It's really not all that difficult. Just takes some getting used to it with practice.

Pictures?

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Not to be annoying, but what exactly is the point of butt forward?  I know people think it looks cool, but both methods above look like they could not possibly save you time and for most of us would actually add time...?

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7 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said:

Not to be annoying, but what exactly is the point of butt forward?  I know people think it looks cool, but both methods above look like they could not possibly save you time and for most of us would actually add time...?

 

STYLE points!

;)
The methods shown in the videos were done slowly in order to illustrate that neither method was inherently unsafe.

Use of either method by a proficient practitioner is not a handicap.

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10 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said:

Not to be annoying, but what exactly is the point of butt forward?  I know people think it looks cool, but both methods above look like they could not possibly save you time and for most of us would actually add time...?

Well if you were riding on a horse, they sit much more comfortably than a standard hang. It's also practical from a gunfight, as you could draw either gun with either hand, so if wounded you still have use of both guns. They also sit very comfortably. I'm sure it adds time to my shoot, but I figure I spend at most 240 seconds shooting over a 6 stage match and the other 3-4 hours not shooting, well that's a lot more time not shooting by my math.

 

8 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Very cool!

Thanks. I like to pair them up with my original 73, made in 1887

Hqx3h43.jpg

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1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

STYLE points!

;)
The methods shown in the videos were done slowly in order to illustrate that neither method was inherently unsafe.

Use of either method by a proficient practitioner is not a handicap.

 

Thanks!  I guess style points is in the eye of the beholder.  To me, style points go to anything Frontiersman and the loud boom of real black powder.  :)

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1 minute ago, John Henry Quick said:

 

Thanks!  I guess style points is in the eye of the beholder.  To me, style points go to anything Frontiersman and the loud boom of real black powder.  :)

Shooting a pair of 51's in a cavalry draw holster, like mine, an original 73, and an original greener 10 gauge, well not quite sure how to get more style points than that.

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3 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Shooting a pair of 51's in a cavalry draw holster, like mine, an original 73, and an original greener 10 gauge, well not quite sure how to get more style points than that.

Maybe use an original winchester 87' lever shotgun?

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4 minutes ago, John Henry Quick said:

 

Thanks!  I guess style points is in the eye of the beholder.  To me, style points go to anything Frontiersman and the loud boom of real black powder.  :)

 

Good enough for JBH!

^_^
 

WildBill.jpg

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Sorry, I saw things not work out so well for a fellow with butts forward in one of the Trinity movies...

 

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1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

STYLE points!

;)
The methods shown in the videos were done slowly in order to illustrate that neither method was inherently unsafe.

Use of either method by a proficient practitioner is not a handicap.

 

The handicap would be your typical TO and spotters and their understanding of the rules :(

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Aside from letting someone get close enough to do that Hollyweird stuff, watch out for someone wearing their pistols butt forward...he can kill you with either gun from either hand!  With a long-barreled gun, it is easier to draw from holsters worn high on the belt!  My only reason for having gone away from that style years ago was trying to explain to the RO that I did not endanger anyone...so long as I kept my finger off the triggers until the gun was pointed downrange!

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Oh, I think I'm gonna be changing my holsters to the other side this weekend!  I ain't got much speed---style is so much easier to come by!  LOL

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9 minutes ago, Smoky Pistols said:

Oh, I think I'm gonna be changing my holsters to the other side this weekend!  I ain't got much speed---style is so much easier to come by!  LOL

 

I'm not going to try butt forward.   It took me a good bit of shooting just to be comfortable shooting gunfighter.   But I'd think someone wanting to go butt forward should do a lot of practice drawing and re-holstering before trying it in a match. 

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That is definitely the plan.  I will practice this week and give it a try at the range this weekend.  As stated, it definitely isn't about the speed for me at this point.

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17 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Good enough for JBH!

^_^
 

WildBill.jpg

Looking at the way those are tucked away, there's a great deal of gun hanging out of the belt. I'm thinking if those were army models he'd have a sight snagging problem on the draw. The cant of the guns seems all wrong as well. I'd have a heap of questions for this guy. Anybody ever tried this? How secure is it?

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14 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Looking at the way those are tucked away, there's a great deal of gun hanging out of the belt. I'm thinking if those were army models he'd have a sight snagging problem on the draw. The cant of the guns seems all wrong as well. I'd have a heap of questions for this guy. Anybody ever tried this? How secure is it?

 

I'm guessing the guns were posed for best display for the picture.

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1 minute ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I'm guessing the guns were posed for best display for the picture.

I'm thinking so too. I seem to recall that he carried his guns tucked through a sash. Still causes a great wonder. I'm wondering if he learned anything from his encounter with John Wesley Hardin and rolled his pistols upon the draw in similar fashion. Anyway I've had enough discussion it's time for me to go and set some targets up and practice...except not like this. I like holsters. A lot. 

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