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Rancho Roy

12g 960FPS shotshell load info

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I recently started reloading for shotguns. I'm looking for a load that duplicates the Winchester Cowboy Load , AA12FL8.

 

Everything I can find lists powders that are discontinued.

 

What say the board?

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I use 12.3 grains of Red Dot,  7/8 oz of shot, AA hulls and Claybusters grey wads. Can't tell the difference between that and Winchester Low recoil low noise.

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Red Dot works well. i'm not at the house to double check the load, but its around 13 as I recall (how is that for precise load data!!!!1?????)   I like the Green STS hulls. Gray Claybuster wads, 7/8 oz shot. I have hulls I've loaded over 10 times. I also load the AAs, but I prefer the STS hulls. 

 

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT USE MY ESTIMATED LOAD DATA WITHOUT VERIFYING . I mostly wanted to agree with the use of Red Dot and my preference for the STS hulls. 

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Go to the Clay Buster website and look at the load data for the CB0175-12 wad using STS hulls. 

 

Most people can’t tell the difference. 

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I think the wad number you want for Clay Buster  7/8 oz is CB0178  Bulldog Brown

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I use AA hull with 13 grains of Red Dot and 7/8 oz of #8 in a Claybuster gray wad.

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Begs the question, who risks destroying their chrony to find out? I have never seen 7/8 oz data rated below 1000 fps. An easier answer is what works and seems about the same.

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9 hours ago, Bulldog Brown said:

I think the wad number you want for Clay Buster  7/8 oz is CB0178  Bulldog Brown

175 has a data link but 178 does not.

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You may also like the AA hull with 14 grains of Red Dot and 3/4 oz of #8 in the Claybuster pink 3/4 oz wad. Very light recoil from a short barreled double.

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 I use AA cases clay buster wads with 1 1/8  load of # 9 shot over 13.5 gr.of Red Dot. I also use a  process that open the shot pattern VERY FAST this allows moving along a bit faster . More shot better odds.

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Use spreader wads or make your own many of the old Rabbit and bird hunters did this.:FlagAm:

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40Gr APP 2F, Nitro over powder, 10Ga Plastic cut down to a 1oz payload, Overshot Card.  

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I use 13gr 700x, WAA12L wad or claybuster replacement (gray), Federal 209A primers, STS hulls, 1oz, 7.5-8 recycled shot.  These crono at 1,000 fps, feels like the Win AA low recoils.  Burns clean, feels good, 700x is about the cheapest powder on the shelf around me.

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 I load to  with # 9 shot and use the spreader wads  to give the best odds to hit the targets . I want to compete and need all the help you can get.:rolleyes:

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12 minutes ago, Butch McGie, SASS#71758 said:

I don't think that SASS likes for us to post load data.  Just saying.

:blink: have you been on vacation? load data has now been allowed.;)

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15 grs Clays, 7/8 oz #7 1/2 or #8 shot, Win AA Hulls and Winchester gray WAA12L wads, or Claybuster CB0178-12 wads, or Claybuster CB1100-12 Wads. Feel just like Winchester Low noise/Low recoil.

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:50 AM, Rancho Roy said:

I recently started reloading for shotguns. I'm looking for a load that duplicates the Winchester Cowboy Load , AA12FL8.

 

Everything I can find lists powders that are discontinued.

 

What say the board?

Others may post what works for them, but to actually "duplicate" as you requested, the basics would have to match. The box says 26 grams, which at .92 ounces is a bit over 7/8. It also says #8 shot. Lastly, the shells are rated at 980 fps velocity. Given those basics, although not necessarily checking velocity, I think it is easiest to shoot one barrel of the reload and the other of a new Win AA and see if they feel the same or close enough. That is to say that there is nothing sacred about an exact duplication.

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Roy, you are not a small guy so do you want to play, or compete? these featherlite loads are not  for targets at 20 ft or so . There are many other options  as I have posted.:FlagAm:

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16 hours ago, Bootless Bob said:

I use 13gr 700x, WAA12L wad or claybuster replacement (gray), Federal 209A primers, STS hulls, 1oz, 7.5-8 recycled shot.  These crono at 1,000 fps, feels like the Win AA low recoils.  Burns clean, feels good, 700x is about the cheapest powder on the shelf around me.

Look into Promo - basically equivalent with Red Dot.

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On 10/20/2018 at 1:24 PM, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Roy, you are not a small guy so do you want to play, or compete? these featherlite loads are not  for targets at 20 ft or so . There are many other options  as I have posted.:FlagAm:

My wife, Reno Browne, is not a lover of recoil.....

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On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 10:40 AM, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

I use 12.3 grains of Red Dot,  7/8 oz of shot, AA hulls and Claybusters grey wads. Can't tell the difference between that and Winchester Low recoil low noise.

Do you by any chance have a MEC bushing # for that measure? I have the chart but already learned that its advice may not be what I end up using.

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Do you by any chance have a MEC bushing # for that measure?

I use one of the Universal adjustable charge bars, but a #22 should be close enough.

 

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according to my chart #35 should drop21.3 gr red dot?????   GW

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5 minutes ago, G W Wade said:

according to my chart #35 should drop21.3 gr red dot?????   GW

My chart also shows this value.

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Yep and according to mine #23 does 13.1

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8 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

My chart also shows this value.

My bad, should be #22, that's what happens when I read small print without my glasses.

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Just to join in. with some numbers for an eight pound shotgun.  The factory 26 gram load , which converts to  .917 ounce, at  980 fps load has a recoil of 6.12 pounds., A 7/8 ounce load at 980 fps would be 5.6 pounds and a one ounce at 980 fps  would be 7.3 pounds. 

 

Comparing to some standard 20 ga loads, 7/8 at 1000 fps is 5.8, 7/8 at 1100 fps is 7.0 and 7/8 at 1,200 fps is 8.4 

 

Interesting that the factory 28 ga 3/4 load at 1,200 fps is 6.1 pounds is about the same recoil as Featherlights .

 

The 12 ga 24 gram International load  converts to .847 ounce  which is between 3/4 and 7/8. At  1,300 fps iit has  9.2 pounds of recoil. 

 

What this all means is you can get about the same recoil as Featherlights by going down in shot and up with velocity to a point. At the same 1,200 fps the 3/4 ounce load has 2.3 pounds less recoil than the 7/8 load. From a money standpoint you can increase velocity cheaper than increasing shot load and hitting a target faster quite often is better than more shot going slower. 

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14 hours ago, Tulsey, SASS#11236 said:

Just to join in. with some numbers for an eight pound shotgun.  The factory 26 gram load , which converts to  .917 ounce, at  980 fps load has a recoil of 6.12 pounds., A 7/8 ounce load at 980 fps would be 5.6 pounds and a one ounce at 980 fps  would be 7.3 pounds. 

 

Comparing to some standard 20 ga loads, 7/8 at 1000 fps is 5.8, 7/8 at 1100 fps is 7.0 and 7/8 at 1,200 fps is 8.4 

 

Interesting that the factory 28 ga 3/4 load at 1,200 fps is 6.1 pounds is about the same recoil as Featherlights .

 

The 12 ga 24 gram International load  converts to .847 ounce  which is between 3/4 and 7/8. At  1,300 fps iit has  9.2 pounds of recoil. 

 

What this all means is you can get about the same recoil as Featherlights by going down in shot and up with velocity to a point. At the same 1,200 fps the 3/4 ounce load has 2.3 pounds less recoil than the 7/8 load. From a money standpoint you can increase velocity cheaper than increasing shot load and hitting a target faster quite often is better than more shot going slower. 

Now the question remains...where is the loading data for velocity as low as 960 fps, regardless of load?

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Now the question remains...where is the loading data for velocity as low as 960 fps, regardless of load?

 

There is no published reloading manual that has smokeless data to load a 12 ga shell at 960 fps.

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1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

There is no published reloading manual that has smokeless data to load a 12 ga shell at 960 fps.

Exactly.

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Winchester sold a powder WW win lite (I believe) which supposedly what they used in production. But stopped selling it for some reason.     GW

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2 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

There is no published reloading manual that has smokeless data to load a 12 ga shell at 960 fps.

Many load below published minimums.  These loads seem to work well in warm weather.  However, I saw poor ignition with one load when a fellow was shooting in 20-deg F weather.  I'd carry a box of AA12FL8 AAs with me if I were shooting in cold weather in case my loads performed poorly.  (I personally don't load my shotgun shells below minimums and give my wife factory AA12FL8 AAs.)

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Winchester printed the load data on their AA Lite powder to replicate the Low Recoil/Low Noise 980 fps "Featherlites", but stopped selling the powder a few years ago.

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