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yo1dog

Winchester 1886 Replica

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I am looking to buy one of the Winchester 1886 replicas in 45-70 for a couple of reasons:

  • I really want a lever action.
  • I really like the look of the gun - 1886 with that octagonal barrel is so beautiful!
  • The historic action.
  • 45-70 seems like a versatile and fun round.
  • I want something more effective on hogs from ~50 yards - my .308 gets the job done, but could be better.
  • But mostly to blow up watermelons, cans, etc. for fun.


So, I don't need 1" groups at 100 yards or anything like that. I do want a good looking, reliable gun with a smooth functioning action.

After doing a bunch of reading I am not sure which manufacturer to go with. As far as I can tell, people seem to agree that Browning is the best, followed by the Miroku Winchester, and then Italian brands like Chiappa and Uberti. I am avoiding Henry because of the tube feed instead of a loading gate.

After watching GunBroker for a few weeks, the prices seem to be around $2000+ for Brownings,  $1500-1700 for Winchesters, and $1200-1300 for Chiappas. Other than price, considerations include annoying safety features. The Winchesters have a tang safety and a rebounding hammer but the Brownings and Chiappas do not (I think). I have read some people really do not like these - especially the rebounding hammer as it makes for a heavy trigger pull and a light strike resulting in misfires. I have also read that the Winchesters don't have throats which affects accuracy but I don't know either of those is true.

Having never handled a lever action, I am not sure how significant the differences are. Are Brownings really $500 better? Are the safety features on the Winchesters that bad? How much would it cost a gun smith to remove/revert them? Are there considerable accuracy differences?

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks,
 - Mike

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I think but could be wrong but the Browning made replicas were still made by Miroku.  I know I had a Browning 1892 at one time and it was marked Miroku Japan on it.

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1 minute ago, LostVaquero said:

I think but could be wrong but the Browning made replicas were still made by Miroku.  I know I had a Browning 1892 at one time and it was marked Miroku Japan on it.

 

Ah, you are right. I am looking at a Browning listing and the barrel reads "Made in Japan".

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Don't rule out used Winchesters or Brownings you may find in your local toy stores. They can be very good shooters. Also , the Maroku rifles are very well made from first class materials.

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I would go with a Miroku Winchester, but the complaints about the rebounding hammer make me hesitate. I found that Turnbull will remove the tang safety and rebounding hammer and spiff it up but it costs ~$700 which puts the final cost in Browning range.
I would go with a Chiappa or Uberti, but the complaints about the quality make me hesitate.
I would go with a Browning, but the cost makes me hesitate.

Arg!

I am also somewhat considering the Marlin 1895 Cowboy. It's much cheaper at ~$700. I have read that a little elbow grease can have them functioning pretty well. Turnbull sells their spiffed up version for $1500. I like the look of 1886 better though. Hmm.

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Ask any cowboy, the Chiappa is a piece of junk. Poor quality and machining.

Uberti is the best bet for all around quality out of the Box.  Japanese Brownings are good guns but for what you're wanting to do are they worth the extra cash?

The Marlins are very light and hard on the shoulder as they don't absorb recoil well. I have one and on't shoot it very often.

 

Ike

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The japchester rebound hammer issues are easy to correct.

Have you handled/fired any '86 in .45-70 with full loads?

They are heavy, and the metal butt-plate ain't friendly.

That said-I love my Winchester 1 of 500 limited edition with 26" bbl.

Just don't want to carry it much.......

BTW-Stay away from the Remmy made Marlins!

OLG

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Interesting. I thought Chiappa and Uberti were basically the same since they were both made in Brescia, Italy (not sure why I thought that). I will take another look at Uberti.

Good point about the Marlin. 7lbs sounds pretty light for 45-70.

I have not handled any 1886 yet, but I defiantly hear you about the downsides. That said, the gun will be more for fun than practical use besides the odd hog.

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6 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

The japchester rebound hammer issues are easy to correct.

 

"japchester" :lol:

I have found and read a couple articles and tutorials (like this one) on how to replace Winchester's hammer and trigger/sear with the ones from Browning to get rid of the rebounding hammer. But, I have never done any gunsmithing so it went over my head. That said, as a woodworker/tinkerer I am quite handy so maybe once it is in front of me I will be able to figure it out. Regardless, I went ahead and sent an email to my local gunsmith and asked for an estimate.

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Ck the link in my first post-

OP-Do you reload?

A fun plink'n load in .45-70 is 14.5gn of Unique with a 400-420rn cast bullet.

I will also add this-JMB loved puzzles. You'll see this the first time you take any of his lever guns apart.

OLG

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The Browning and the Winchester are both made by Miroku. Since the Miroku has a tang safety that eliminates a tang sight without modification. Miroku makes beautiful rifles. I have a Browning Saddle Ring Carbine with the 22” barrel. I haven’t been able to hit much with it beyond 200 yards but I suspect it might have something to do with the coated bullets I’ve been using. Or my eyes. Or maybe I’m not a very good shot. Sure is a joy to keep trying though.

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Thanks for link. Good information on the specifics of the problems with the Miroku Winchesters. I'll attempt to summarize and please correct me if I am wrong:

  • The rebounding hammer requires a heavy hammer spring.
  • The inertia firing pin is too short and a heavy hammer spring attempts to compensate by providing extra force. However, even with the heavy hammer spring, the too-short inertia firing pin can still cause light primer hits and a failure to fire.
  • The heavy hammer spring creates a heavy trigger.
  • The tang safety can be engaged by accident and is unnecessary. It also prevents a tang sight.


To fix:

  • The rebound spur on the hammer spring strut should be removed to disable the rebounding.
  • The inertia firing pin should be replaced. (With a longer inertia firing pin? A non-inertia firing pin?)
  • The hammer spring should be replaced with a lighter one.
  • The tang safety can be welded in the off position. The receiver can be drilled to accept a tang sight.

 

Do I have that correct? I want to know the basics so I can talk somewhat effectively with the gunsmith.

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I'm still run' the OEM, FP with no issues.

That rebound spur is 99% of the FTF issues.

You can shim the hammer spring up some with a #10 an washer.

You really need a good set of gunsmith screwdrivers for this. I like the Maga-tip from Brownells.

These are USA made tools-:FlagAm:

OLG

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Don't overlook the 1876.

I have one in 45-60 shoot a 300 gr bullet . Very accurate out to 300 yds.

A friend took a Buffalo with one shoot.

It would make a good Hog gun.

RCBS makes a 300 gr Bullet Mold that takes gas checks. Very good Bullet.

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As has been mentioned, the .45-70 can be a shoulder thumper.   My original loading, which was listed in the manual as "Trapdoor Safe," using 4198 and a 405 grain bullet worked just fine in my 1884 Trapdoor Rifle, but was very PAINFUL to shoot in my 1873 Trapdoor Carbine and equally unpleasant in an original Winchester 1886 with a 20" octagon barrel.

 

Switched to Trailboss and it was suddenly much more pleasant to shoot.   It will still reach out and touch far away targets, but I have no idea how fast the bullet is going, I don't have a chrono.   It may or may not be too "light" for use as a hunting load.

 

Of course, real Winchesters with a 4 digit price where the first number is not crooked are quite rare.  I was VERY lucky to find mine.   Personally, I would not be interested in one with a rebounding hammer or a tang safety.  I just find such things to be annoying.   :)

 

On the other hand, Chiappa, which has none of that stuff, makes one with a 16" barrel, and curiously a large loop lever.   I'm thinking of getting one of those and trimming the shoulderstock as short as legally possible to create a kind of a "Super Mare's Leg."

 

I am weird though.

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I love my Browning 86s.  The rifle version will shoot 1.5” at 100yards from the bench.  The carbine is also pretty accurate, but my eyes have a harder time with the flip up style sights.  The original Winchesters are out of my price range and the current production ones have the tang safety and rebounding hammer which I hate.  Never handled a Chiappa 86 in the flesh, but their 92 is a respectable rifle so I’d imagine their 86 is a decent rifle.  The Pedersoli 1886s are also very nice and have a good reputation for accuracy.

609869EC-B050-4244-8A9E-B905A9D04507.jpeg

8F0B7663-F503-449F-A82C-D20E2C73B292.jpeg

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Sounds like there is some disagreement regarding Chiappa quality.

But, there is one thing we can all agree on: we hate the tang safety and rebounding hammer on the Miroku Winchester 1886. lol

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4 minutes ago, yo1dog said:


But, there is one thing we can all agree on: we hate the tang safety and rebounding hammer on the Miroku Winchester 1886. lol

Amen!

 

Don’t overlook the Pedersoli line of 86/71s. They do a 26” full octagon full mag tube version that is absolutely gorgeous.

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I own the Pedersoli 1886 and love it.

 

They are sold in the USA by Uberti as the 1886 Sporting Rifle (two versions, mine is the full length)  https://www.uberti-usa.com/1886-sporting-rifle

 

It looks pretty and it shoots well. I have fitted a Lyman receiver sight on mine so it isnt SASS legal but Im sure you could fit a tang sight if that is important to you.

 

I reload for mine and am pushing 300gr cast proj at 1620ish fps and get pretty good accuracy. I know some who are using 405 and bigger projectiles in theirs so MMV.

 

This review is pretty good

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Major Crimes said:

They are sold in the USA by Uberti

 

So that means here in the US, the Uberti 1886 Sporting Rifle is the same as the Pedersoli 1886 Sporting Rifle, right?

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32 minutes ago, yo1dog said:

Sounds like there is some disagreement regarding Chiappa quality.

But, there is one thing we can all agree on: we hate the tang safety and rebounding hammer on the Miroku Winchester 1886. lol

I am the odd man out. I have no issues with the rebounding hammer or tang safety on my Miroku 1886. I would prefer it did not have them but not causing any problems. Not a stressor to me. 

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:lol: There's always that one guy!

Just kidding. I've never handled one so I don't really know. You might be the only person I have heard say that didn't really care, but people arn't particularity vocal about things they don't care about. So that makes sense.

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45 minutes ago, yo1dog said:

 

So that means here in the US, the Uberti 1886 Sporting Rifle is the same as the Pedersoli 1886 Sporting Rifle, right?

Yes.

Compare the photo's and specs.

https://www.uberti-usa.com/1886-sporting-rifle

https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/scheda-prodotto.asp/l_en/idpr_383/rifles-model-1886-lever-action-1886-sporting-rifle.html

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I am in Austin, Texas.

I do not reload, but I have been looking into it for a while. It's hard to find the time these days.

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you are going to want to reload for 45-70. cost aside, factory loads will thump you pretty hard.

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win, win

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3 minutes ago, yo1dog said:

Hmm. Maybe this will be my excuse to finally start reloading.

Find someone you shoot with that reloads, let them mentor you.

Take notes........

OLG

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I am looking at this Uberti for $1,025 + shipping:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786395944

 

Seems like a good deal. He lists it as a "Uberti 1886 deluxe" but I am not sure what the "deluxe" refers to. Listed as new, unfired, and in original box. A peep sight is mounted to the top. Wood doesn't look like anything to write home about. The seller has sold only a few things on GunBroker but has all positive feedback.

Hmmm.

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Yea. The only 86s in stock around here are the Chiappa and the short model versions of the Winchester 1886.

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7 minutes ago, yo1dog said:

I am looking at this Uberti for $1,025 + shipping:

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/786395944

 

Seems like a good deal. He lists it as a "Uberti 1886 deluxe" but I am not sure what the "deluxe" refers to. Listed as new, unfired, and in original box. A peep sight is mounted to the top. Wood doesn't look like anything to write home about. The seller has sold only a few things on GunBroker but has all positive feedback.

Hmmm.

Saw one like this recently in a LGS.  Looks like a cheaper version of the ones that are listed on the Uberti and Pedersoli web sites, in that the wood does not have the same finish.  It's also a cheaper price by around $800 or so.

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