What's the best B Western rifle?

[evil dogooder]

The op stated that speed wasn't the prioity. So how many won with a 94 doesn't matter.   92s were what was used in b western movies. The category is based on the movies. 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, evil dogooder said:

The op stated that speed wasn't the prioity. So how many won with a 94 doesn't matter.   92s were what was used in b western movies. The category is based on the movies. 

Wow...okay.

[July Smith]

Having owned both I like the 92 better.  One advantage or at least what I have found is if you have the OAL right a 92 will at least work if you run the lever hard both ways.  Those 94s especially the new ones just don’t work right.  Obviously to win you will need either to be worked on by a pro but seeing as speed is secondary to the OP I’d imagine he would like a rifle that works from the get go.

[Major J Hawk SASS#107720]

Well I seem to have started a cat fight.  The obvious answer is to buy both!

[Tyrel Cody]

5 minutes ago, Major J Hawk SASS#107720 said:

Well I seem to have started a cat fight.  The obvious answer is to buy both!

 

Yes!

 

And a Dillon 650 or Hornady LnL to make the correct length ammo for either  But that's another argument.

 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of Marlin.  I found the Win '92 and replicants, once cleaned up and re-sprung can run very fast indeed.  Down the road, I found the '92 to be more reliable.  My vote for the '92

[Yusta B.]

Should be starting to snow shortly ......

[Grey Beard]

7 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

Should be starting to snow shortly ......

Just starting to snow here this morning, looks like a long winter!  Good thing we had our last scheduled outdoor shoot on Saturday.   

GB

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

So there you have it.  The OP asked for an opinion of the best B-Western Rifle and it turns out there are two "Best" choices, the Winchester 1892 and the Marlin 1894.  

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

So there you have it.  The OP asked for an opinion of the best B-Western Rifle and it turns out there are two "Best" choices, the Winchester 1892 and the Marlin 1894.  

 

Right... One because it's seen more in the movies, an another because it performs better for SASS/CAS matches.

 

I'd go with that.

 

Phantom

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

4 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Right... One because it's seen more in the movies, an another because it performs better for SASS/CAS matches.

 

I'd go with that.

 

Phantom

If that's the way you want to look at it, fine.  Bottom line is this, both rifles will do the job nicely for most competitors.  Each person will have their preference and the reasons why they made their choice based on whether this is a to the death competition or fun pastime and whether the piece of equipment is reliable for them.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

If that's the way you want to look at it, fine.  Bottom line is this, both rifles will do the job nicely for most competitors.  Each person will have their preference and the reasons why they made their choice based on whether this is a to the death competition or fun pastime and whether the piece of equipment is reliable for them.  

If you are going to say ONE is the best, state your criteria... State your supporting arguments.

 

I base my opinion on personal experience PLUS the fact that the best B-Western shooters use the Marlin.

 

There's NO bias in my opinion...I don't recommend what's best based on what i might have in my safe nor how I feel about the aesthetics of the rifle.

 

You??

 

 

[LostVaquero]

While there are all sorts of legal rifles if your intent is to go fast I think a JM Marlin is the way to go.  Personally I went with a JM Marilin CBC in 38 special and it has had springs, one piece firing pin, RP gate and extractor,  stainless steel follower and spring, an marbles bigger bead front sight installed.  Never a jam, misfire, or anything else and on those rare stages with a reload can toss one in the ejection port and keep the rifle pointed at the target. 

 

Yes I sometimes use a Pedersoli lightning but you have to find just the right length of round.  Works fine and is fun to use but if I had to pick which one to go win with in would be the Marlin hands down. 

 

Personally my preference in order is:

JM Marlin - lots of go fast parts.

(Remington Marlin most parts work as well and I have one that seems to work but would go with JM if possible)

 

1892 - fair amount of some springs and such.  Great design for higher power cartridge but I think a Marlin can outrun it.

 

Lightnings - Very small support.  Pedersoli best out of the box and at least a delrin follower is available. 

 

Henry Big Boy - yes B western legal.  No support at all but a few Marlin parts such as ejector and springs will fit. 

 

1881 Burgess - Nothing available from box stock.  Firing pins and extractors from those that have/had them seem to break easily. 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

36 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

If you are going to say ONE is the best, state your criteria... State your supporting arguments.

 

 

I believe in the last post I stated both rifles are in the best category based on an individual's personal preference.  My personal preference is based on experience with both as each reside in my safe. 

 

The performance advantages to the Marlin's are the slightly shorter stroke, lots of smiths work on them, and parts are mostly available. 

 

The disadvantage is the dreaded Marlin Jam.  The new Remlins are problematic at best based on many reviews available from well known and respected smiths so folks must rely on the used market. 

 

The advantage to the '92 is that it's a bit smaller, lighter, and faster to swing.  The bolt lockup is much stronger for the larger calibers.  Repairs and smoothing are easily accomplished with most parts available. 

 

The disadvantage is some can be OAL sensitive and it has a longer stroke.

 

Why did I pick the '92?  The rounded receiver and smoother lines fit me best.  I just don't care for the squarish receiver or the side eject.  I have never had a malfunction of any kind after many years of using the '92 and can run it as fast as the Marlin.  I tend to run my rifles hard and I found the '92 less sensitive to rough use so I have the utmost confidence in the rifle.  The fact that John Wayne's favorite rifle was a '92 in 44WCF is only icing on the top. :-)

 

So why do the top B-Western folks shoot Marlin's?  Maybe one will post on here who has run both types.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

I believe in the last post I stated both rifles are in the best category based on an individual's personal preference.  My personal preference is based on experience with both as each reside in my safe. 

 

The performance advantages to the Marlin's are the slightly shorter stroke, lots of smiths work on them, and parts are mostly available. 

 

The disadvantage is the dreaded Marlin Jam.  The new Remlins are problematic at best based on many reviews available from well known and respected smiths so folks must rely on the used market. 

 

The advantage to the '92 is that it's a bit smaller, lighter, and faster to swing.  The bolt lockup is much stronger for the larger calibers.  Repairs and smoothing are easily accomplished with most parts available. 

 

The disadvantage is some can be OAL sensitive and it has a longer stroke.

 

Why did I pick the '92?  The rounded receiver and smoother lines fit me best.  I just don't care for the squarish receiver or the side eject.  I have never had a malfunction of any kind after many years of using the '92 and can run it as fast as the Marlin.  I tend to run my rifles hard and I found the '92 less sensitive to rough use so I have the utmost confidence in the rifle.  The fact that John Wayne's favorite rifle was a '92 in 44WCF is only icing on the top. :-)

 

So why do the top B-Western folks shoot Marlin's?  Maybe one will post on here who has run both types.  

You can't run a 92 nearly as fast as a Marlin 94.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

 

[Lead Monger]

 

Quote

  

6 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You can't run a 92 nearly as fast as a Marlin 94.

 

I can run a 92 faster than I can run a 94.

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Lead Monger said:

 

 

Oh fer gawds sake...

 

I love the Wire...

 

[McCandless]

17 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

So why do the top B-Western folks shoot Marlin's?  Maybe one will post on here who has run both types.  

 

I believe Phantom's been trying to tell you why.  He's been around firearms and top shooters for a long time.

I know a few top B-Western shooters as well... The reason they choose the Marlin is:

A properly set up Marlin will run rings around a '92.  By properly set up, I mean a gunsmith like Widder, Spur, Cowboy Carty, Slick McClade, Jimmy Spurs or others

had worked it up so that there is no "Marlin Jam", and a few other neat things that make it run flawlessly (you can read their websites).

Quite a few B-Western shooters have learned to work on their own and make them run flawlessly.

Deuce Stevens has run Marlins for years.  You may be able to shoot your '92 faster than your '94.  Is your '94 stock or has it been tuned, any parts replaced?

I can run my '94 far faster than my '92.

Before gunsmiths learned how to tune up the '73, the preferred rifle for CAS was the '92.  Not any longer.  Not for a long time.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I won't try to address which rifle is best between the 92 and the Marlin 94.

 

BUT, because a few have dismissed the Marlin 94 because of its 'Jam A Matic' problem, I will

make a helpful comment on that.

 

That 'jam' problem is caused by insufficient timing in relationship to the cartridge OAL.

 

With a proper timing modification, OAL becomes non-critical.   Actually, proper timing

can allow OAL to vary from approx 1.38 up to 1.50+.

 

CURE:  One of the best cures to fix a Jam A Matic problem is to send your carrier to Gunner Gatlin.

Gunner cuts a piece out of the timing ramp and inserts a hardened carbide  piece in place, usually

adding a little height to the ramp.   This carbide insert is permanent and won't wear like a factory 

ramp.

 

I hope this info might help some who might have that jamming problem.

 

..........Widder

 

[Buckshot Dobbs]

50 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You can't run a 92 nearly as fast as a Marlin 94.

IIIII dunnnooo....Ole Deuce here seems to make this one move purty good....

 

 

 

 

 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

56 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You can't run a 92 nearly as fast as a Marlin 94.

I'm running my '92 as fast as I can run my Marlin, so yes I can.  Maybe it's you that can't run a '92 at speed.   Look at what Duece and Smokestack are doing with '92's.  

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

48 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

I believe Phantom's been trying to tell you why.  He's been around firearms and top shooters for a long time.

If you look at my SASS #, I too have been around firearms and top shooters for a very long time.  When I started back in the day the '92 was the rifle to have.

I can run my '94 far faster than my '92.

I can't run the '94 faster than the '92 but those are my limitations.  For whatever reason, the '92 works better for me.  Both rifles have been tuned by notable smiths.  The '92 is flawless, the '94 is almost flawless but I don't have the confidence in it that I have with the '92.  

Before gunsmiths learned how to tune up the '73, the preferred rifle for CAS was the '92.  Not any longer.  Not for a long time.

But not in B-Western.  

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

The 92 can be run pretty fast...

 

 

Love the way he looks at the camera.   And if that ain't a B Western, I don't know what is.  LOL

[Widder, SASS #59054]

 

Howdy H.K.

 

Because of this Thread, I GOOGLED 'Chuck Connors and his rifle'.

 

It gave some interesting info.   Apparently, he used 2 different rifles.   One was set up for spinning and the

other was set up for his 'swing down and out' technique.

 

Also, it stated that his spinning rifle had to be modified because when spinning the 92, the cartridge on the 

carrier would fall out every time, even though it was a blank.

 

Although I'm a RIFLEMAN fan, I don't know any trivia stuff about him or his rifles..... just something I read on

GOOGLE.

 

..........Widder

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, Buckshot Dobbs said:

IIIII dunnnooo....Ole Deuce here seems to make this one move purty good....

 

 

 

 

 

Compare it to his Marlin...

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

 

The Marlin stacks up favorably with the 73... You're not going to find anyone that says the same for a 92.

 

So tell me, why aren't the top B-Western players using the 92?? Are they fools?!

 

Phantom

[Griff]

Maybe you meant to say?

21 hours ago, Major J Hawk SASS#107720 said:

The B Western category appeals to me because I like old movies and if you're going to dress up like a pretend drugstore cowboy you might as well go all out.  Pistols I've got, shotgun I've got but I'm struggling with the rifle choice.  I've heard negative things about all the choices.  I want one that works.   Speed is of secondary importance.  Like Clint said, "a man's got to know his limitations".  

So let the opinions fly boys!

Those of us that pretend to be real cowboys might take offense   if lumped in with the Hollywierd version.  

17 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The question posed is what is the BEST B-Western rifle.

 

Anyone that thinks that a 92 is better than a Marlin 94 is... How do I say this without pissing some folks off...is terribly mistake(n).

 

I generally agree with my friend Phantom, but just because one think's a Marlin 1894 isn't best for B-Western, doesn't make them a mistake... 

17 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

The question didn't ask what were the fine B-western rifles. It asked what the best was.

 

Who out there thinks that a 92 is a better B-Western rifle than a Marlin 94??

In their original chamberings in the arms made prior to WWI, you might be hard pressed to pick a clear winner.  But, even then, I'd give a slight nod to the Marlin due to it's slightly shorter lever throw.  But, to someone used to a '92 or toggle-link, which do their heavy lifting on the forward stroke of the lever, the Marlin, which lifts the carrier as the action closes, may find that disconcerting.   And negate the initial perception that shorter stroke means a faster stroke.

 

Neither gun are known for issues in those chamberings... but, with advent of straight-wall pistol cartridge chamberings, especially the multi-length 38Spl/357Mag & the 44Spl/44Mag, feed geometry becomes a factory compromise.  Ergo both guns in question WILL need work to feed optimally.

 

Let no one kid ya, ain't anyone gonna take a bone-stock example of either outta the box & win the Cadillac. 

 

I've got two '92s set up to run CAS, another '92 & a Marlin '94 as multi-purpose arms... and I can run those '92s way faster than the later two.   You can use the "wrong" ammo and goober up how well anything runs.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

The 92 can be run pretty fast...

 

 

Love the way he looks at the camera.   And if that ain't a B Western, I don't know what is.  LOL

Dress like him and you won't qualify as B-western... And his rifle and an additional screw over stock 92's

[McCandless]

Well, poster asked for opinions on the "best" rifle for B-Western.  He's got them.

[Sedalia Dave]

 

double tap

 

[Sedalia Dave]

 

 

 

[McCandless]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

 

I see, the opinions of the lowest SASS number is what counts most.  Why didn't folks tell me??  Obviously, I shan't speak again.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

 

1 hour ago, McCandless said:

 

I believe Phantom's been trying to tell you why.  He's been around firearms and top shooters for a long time.

If you look at my SASS #, I too have been around firearms and top shooters for a very long time.  When I started back in the day the '92 was the rifle to have.

I can run my '94 far faster than my '92.

I can't run the '94 faster than the '92 but those are my limitations.  For whatever reason, the '92 works better for me.  Both rifles have been tuned by notable smiths.  The '92 is flawless, the '94 is almost flawless but I don't have the confidence in it that I have with the '92.  

Before gunsmiths learned how to tune up the '73, the preferred rifle for CAS was the '92.  Not any longer.  Not for a long time.

But not in B-Western.  

 

Yer both newbies, knock it off!      BTW B-Western was 1st recognized @ EOT in 2005, well after the '92 fell from favor.

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

Everyone knows that the best choice for B Western is the Burgess............. Just kidding. I have personal experience with both the Winchester (Rossi) 92 and Marlin 1894. Neither one in my opinion are really very good as they come out of the box. Both are relatively inexpensive and require very little knowledge or skill to do a spring swap and minor action job on.  A one piece steel firing pin and spring kit will run you about $40 for the Marlin and can be installed in minutes. Palo Verde makes an excellent and very complete spring kit for the Rossi 92' that can be installed in about an hour by most people for $30, it also transforms the rifle. Both rifles can be finicky on cartridge OAL in the .357 version, that is easily solved by loading ammo that is appropriate which has ever been easier given our vast choice of bullets on the market by a number of casters. The most common Rossi you will find is the 20" round barrel variety and is a very light handling little rifle. For that reason I believe the Marlin has an edge for our game as it has a much steadier platform given it's balance and smoothness of working the action resulting in a whole lot less sight disturbance while running the gun. The Marlin has many more "race" options when compared to the 92'. I've been shooting the Marlin with great success for over a dozen years now and have been more than pleased with the durability of these guns. One of my rifles in particular has over 60,000 rounds through it and it doesn't owe me a dang thing.