Holster angle and position

[Dantankerous]

I shoot double duelist and wear my holsters in a straight hang dual strong side configuration. I pretty much wear them on each hip, nowhere near the forward position I see a lot of shooters wearing theirs. I never gave it much consideration either. However, at a recent match I attended I tried on a gorgeous rig a vendor was selling and got to experimenting with the holsters being different than what I usually use. The holsters are canted slightly and it was suggested I move them slightly forward,  the explanation being it's a more naturally ergonomic and fluid motion to the gun than where I have been wearing them. After several draws and re-holsters I had to concur. Seems like my arms didn't have to move as far nor did my elbows point out as far. Reholstering was far more easily done. Even looking the guns back into the holster seemed more natural and took less time then having to avert my eyes down to the right and down to the left for my normal re-holster.

 

While I have always noticed a lot of shooters wearing there double strong side guns in a more forward position I never thought to ask why. Now I'm starting to learn why. I was impressed with the difference. Anything else I should be aware of as far as advantages or disadvantages to wearing double strong-side in this forward position with a slightly canted holster?

 

Thanks!

Edited October 5, 2018 by Dantankerous

[Trailrider #896]

When you say, "slightly canted", which way do you mean...muzzle forward of the topstrap, or muzzle slightly to the rear?

[Dantankerous]

6 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

When you say, "slightly canted", which way do you mean...muzzle forward of the topstrap, or muzzle slightly to the rear?

Seems like the holsters were canted outward slightly as well as rearward slightly. In other words muzzle forward of the top strap.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Not only is a good and proper cant beneficial, but the height in which you wear your holster rig can be

beneficial (or a hinderance) in the manner in which you draw/reholster.

 

..........Widder

 

[evil dogooder]

16 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Not only is a good and proper cant beneficial, but the height in which you wear your holster rig can be

beneficial (or a hinderance) in the manner in which you draw/reholster.

 

..........Widder

 

Widder is dead on here. I had a rig custom built to my specs so I could get the drop right but it's worth every penny! 

[Dantankerous]

5 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

...but the height in which you wear your holster rig can be

beneficial (or a hinderance) in the manner in which you draw/reholster.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Classic Cowboy rules state "part of the grip must be above the belt on which the holster hangs." This means I am more prohibited as to the height the holster rides than other categories of shooting in CAS. My grips are fairly high over the belt but I have some leeway in dropping those a little. I would argue after having now experimented with different holsters that the (height) position of my double strong-side revolvers are indeed a hindrance not only to developing any speed out of the leather but it also slows reholstering. Moving the holster slightly forward on my hips does seem to help as well. It's amazing how many little nuances there are to fine tuning what can be done.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Dantankerous

[Major Art Tillery]

I think you would have better luck if you shifted them holsters farther back.  Yep that is what ya should do.. Trust me I am a professional.

Edited October 5, 2018 by Major Art Tillery

[Ramblin Gambler]

You said a slight cant so this may not apply, but I'll add to make sure they're legal the way you wear them.  Some makers don't seem to know our rules or take into account what the contours of the body can do to the angle of the dangle. 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

It might be more beneficial to wear them toward the front, but be careful not to go too far into the “crotch holster” look. No self respecting classic cowboy should be caught dead wearing holsters like that. 

[Flinthills Dawg]

Dantankerous I started wearing mine to the front a while back and it is much nicer than straight on your hips.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

And breaking the 180 is far less likely... Straight draw holster wearers break the 180 regularly... Though X-Draw folks her the bad rap.

[Bulldog Brown]

Dan: I think you should wear them above the belle button, with the butts forward, and tied to the holsters. Bulldog

[Tennessee williams]

    Wherever you put them, do something to make sure they stay there so they are always at the same spot. I wear mine in line with my pockets. They put those pockets there for a reason on yer britches. Its natural for your hands to find them! 

   Oh yeah, I've seen some get around that whole pistol butt has to be above the belt thing by wearing their belt around the middle of theirowndang butt. That just aint right. If I want to see that, I'll go to walmart.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 3:59 PM, Redwood Kid said:

It might be more beneficial to wear them toward the front, but be careful not to go too far into the “crotch holster” look. No self respecting classic cowboy should be caught dead wearing holsters like that. 

Unfortunately Kid, I see way too many top shooters wearing their holsters too close together. Cowboys and cowgirls alike. Two fists means two fists. I you're a speed burner going for the sub-10 second stage, but rules are rules. Follow them! Besides, you look like a dork! Crotch holsters... hahaha, EXACTLY!

[Juan Solo]

I position mine by where my hands want to naturally holster. I've found is forward of the hips, more towards the point of the hip, about where my pockets are.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Unfortunately Kid, I see way too many top shooters wearing their holsters too close together. Cowboys and cowgirls alike. Two fists means two fists. I you're a speed burner going for the sub-10 second stage, but rules are rules. Follow them! Besides, you look like a dork! Crotch holsters... hahaha, EXACTLY!

Bull. I don't know anyone that's a top shooter violating the rule. The idea that someone would put in a ton of work and then put all that work into jeopardy by wearing their holsters too close is preposterous!!!

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Pretty ballsy callin me a liar! There are those that will win no matter what and don't feel the need to push the rules. And then there are some that are top shooters and HAVE to push it. It's like they can't help it and even if called on it, they will continue to stretch boundaries. I'm not saying there are a lot of them, but there are some. If you've been to a big match and haven't seen any, then you aren't looking. I've even seen this on the cover of our beloved Chronicle. Sorry

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

 I had my rig built with specific cant and drop in accordance to the position I prefer to wear them in. I also had a spacer built that also serves as a bullet slide that is between my holsters that is slightly wider than my two fists. It keeps in compliance with our rules (very important to me) and also gives me instant recourse in the event that someone wants to "call" me on it which has not happened after all these years shooting all over the country. Rules are rules, Opinions on what things look like are just that and if you are gonna call someone into question you better be sure. Between Winter Range and EOT I eyeball literally hundreds of rigs. While finding a offending cross draw angle is common but not rampant, finding a shooter with their holsters too close together is very uncommon. And I can tell you that whenever I have had to talk to a shooter about a rig at our 2 largest matches in our game it was not a "top shooter". So many misconceptions out there, very many of them unfounded.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Pretty ballsy callin me a liar! There are those that will win no matter what and don't feel the need to push the rules. And then there are some that are top shooters and HAVE to push it. It's like they can't help it and even if called on it, they will continue to stretch boundaries. I'm not saying there are a lot of them, but there are some. If you've been to a big match and haven't seen any, then you aren't looking. I've even seen this on the cover of our beloved Chronicle. Sorry

Where did I call you a liar??!!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

2 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Pretty ballsy callin me a liar! There are those that will win no matter what and don't feel the need to push the rules. And then there are some that are top shooters and HAVE to push it. It's like they can't help it and even if called on it, they will continue to stretch boundaries. I'm not saying there are a lot of them, but there are some. If you've been to a big match and haven't seen any, then you aren't looking. I've even seen this on the cover of our beloved Chronicle. Sorry

I'll try it this way: I believe your opinion is wrong.

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

On ‎10‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 7:36 PM, Tennessee williams said:

   ...

   Oh yeah, I've seen some get around that whole pistol butt has to be above the belt thing by wearing their belt around the middle of theirowndang butt. That just aint right. If I want to see that, I'll go to walmart.

Sorry, that would not get around the Classic Cowboy rule that "No Buscadero or drop holster rigs allowed (i.e., part of the grip must be above the

belt on which the holster hangs)."

 

It doesn't matter where their belt is worn, it is the pistol grip in relation to the belt that contains the holsters..

Edited October 19, 2018 by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217
Changed butt to grip.

[Null N. Void]

I had the holsters more to the front and canted for awhile.  I have long arms, and from hands at your sides the move to get to the revolver is up and towards your body center at the beep, grab the grip and semi reverse direction to get the gun out of the holster.  Since I've gone to the buscadero style it's a short straight rise to get my hand on the grip and the gun is pulled straight up with no direction change.

 

Try different stuff.  YMMV.

 

NNV

[Tennessee williams]

16 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Sorry, that would not get around the Classic Cowboy rule that "No Buscadero or drop holster rigs allowed (i.e., part of the grip must be above the

belt on which the holster hangs)."

 

It doesn't matter where their belt is worn, it is the pistol grip in relation to the belt that contains the holsters..

Lol, I know. That was an apparent fail at a dig on droopy belts and sagging britches at walmart.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

19 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Where did I call you a liar??!!

Pretty much with the "Bull" comment. I take that as bull$h@# and pretty much means you think I'm lying. I know the top shooters are top shooters because they practice/train more than others and have a natural aptitude for it; I get that. I'm just saying that I've seen some that press the envelope to the point of edging over the rules limit and since we're talking about holsters and spacing and angles, I said I've seen some with holsters too close. If you're a top shooter, you don't need to step over that line so... And Deuce, I have the utmost respect for you. I've worked on a posse with you back in the Mule Camp days and wish I could shoot with you more often. It doesn't matter if it's holster spacing or taking another advantage, we know where the lines are drawn, respect them.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Pretty much with the "Bull" comment. I take that as bull$h@# and pretty much means you think I'm lying. I know the top shooters are top shooters because they practice/train more than others and have a natural aptitude for it; I get that. I'm just saying that I've seen some that press the envelope to the point of edging over the rules limit and since we're talking about holsters and spacing and angles, I said I've seen some with holsters too close. If you're a top shooter, you don't need to step over that line so... And Deuce, I have the utmost respect for you. I've worked on a posse with you back in the Mule Camp days and wish I could shoot with you more often. It doesn't matter if it's holster spacing or taking another advantage, we know where the lines are drawn, respect them.

Yer too sensitive...bull means I don't believe your observations are true. To be a liar you have to know that what you say is false... Wish more folks understood this.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hey Phantom,

 

He may not be too sensitive. He just doesn't understand you (not saying I do either ).  However, I do like your post about what makes one a liar. Bravo!

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

PS Folks, Phantom is the only person one of a few people, I banned who was man enough to still be my friend and not try to access the Wire under false pretenses.

PPS If I am wrong, please send me a PM and I will edit this post.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217
PM Received.

[Checotah]

I know we are a fantasy game, not NCOWS, and most are in it for the competition.  I also know not all try to portray cowboys (or cowgirls).  For those folks, I accept they will wear their holsters canted and located towards the front of the body.  For me, I try to follow the guidance in the SHB, "All clothing and equipment must be worn appropriately and how it was intended, or how it would have been in the Old West or as seen on B-Western movies and television."   Towards that end, I cannot see a real cowboy wearing holsters in that manner.  You just cannot sit astride a horse with yer holsters like that, so I keep mine to the side as I do when I ride.  Again, no problem with those who wish to do so.  I just like to try to pretend to be a cowboy as best I can.  Nope, am not into the competition, just like being 10 years old again, playing cowboy with my pards.

[Juan Solo]

I have actually seen a few vintage photos of cowboys wearing the texas jock strap rigs with the holsters pushed forward. I don't think it was super common, but I'm sure they picked where the most comfortable spot would be for what they're doing at the time.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 12:59 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yer too sensitive...bull means I don't believe your observations are true. To be a liar you have to know that what you say is false... Wish more folks understood this.

Thanks for the language lesson. I'll keep that in mind next time I make an observation. Any more sage bits of wisdom?

[Hillbilly Drifter]

2 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Thanks for the language lesson. I'll keep that in mind next time I make an observation. Any more sage bits of wisdom?

you really need to let it go.

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Why should I be made to look like I don't know what I'm talking about by a wire "veteran" and just let it go. People who get on here and cut others need to "let it go".

[Hillbilly Drifter]

digging your heels in the sand is not gaining you any respect. move on, nothing to see here

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Thanks for the language lesson. I'll keep that in mind next time I make an observation. Any more sage bits of wisdom?

I was simply responding to your belief that I called you a liar... Which I didn't.

 

Cheers!

 

Phantom

[Captain Clark]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:53 AM, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

 I'm just saying that I've seen some that press the envelope to the point of edging over the rules limit and since we're talking about holsters and spacing and angles, I said I've seen some with holsters too close. If you're a top shooter, you don't need to step over that line so... And Deuce, I have the utmost respect for you. I've worked on a posse with you back in the Mule Camp days and wish I could shoot with you more often. It doesn't matter if it's holster spacing or taking another advantage, we know where the lines are drawn, respect them.

My observations at larger matches such as  EOT, state, etc. have been that the "TOP" shooters are abiding by the rules to the letter of the law, elsewise the other "TOP" shooters are more than capable of observing these transgressions and pointing them out to the ROs and Match Directors IMO. What seems to be much more common is the average / newbie competitor unknowingly stepping WAY over the line without a clue.

I know that Lassiter and Deuce Stevens were checking holster cant angles and B Western requirements personally themselves this year at EOT, and I'm doubting the two of them were snookered by anybody to any degree. I've seen top shooter that are smoking fast, but its not due to holster positions or crossing over the line IMO

[Wild Ben VanDorn]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 10:57 PM, El Cubano said:

I have actually seen a few vintage photos of cowboys wearing the texas jock strap rigs with the holsters pushed forward. I don't think it was super common, but I'm sure they picked where the most comfortable spot would be for what they're doing at the time.

 

It's probable that the holster placement was for the benefit of the photo if in a studio or a posed shot; the cowboys wanted to show off their hardware.  If a candid photo, then who knows?  After many miles on horseback, however, I can say with certainty I would not like a revolver in between my hips.  Typically, I carry a 7.5" barrel .45 in a cross-draw holster with no cant.  It's just functional on a horse and when mounting and dismounting regularly.  A shorter barrel works alright on the strong side if carried high and tight.  Others may have different preferences.

 

To the original idea of carrying at a match: my personal favorite for two guns is strong side, butt forward, no cant.  Contrary to popular belief, if the draw is executed correctly, it does not break the 180 degree rule, does not point back at the masses, and does not sweep any portion of the shooter's body.  Mind you, this is IF the draw is executed correctly.  It takes practice to do this with celerity, but I find it the best (and most historically accurate) way to get my long-barreled 1860s into action.  Of course, my times are a far cry longer than most other folks. . .

 

Whatever one chooses to do, as long as they like it and they are safe, it works for me!

 

 

Keep your powder dry,

 

Wild Ben