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What is the best option for a accurate SAA clone without any lawyer junk safeties?


Joe Smith

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I have been interested in buying a Single Action Army clone for a while, I was settled on a Uberti Cattleman until I heard about Uberti adding firing pin safties from the Cattleman 2 models into all of their SAA guns.

I am not a competitor (at least not yet), I want a SAA that is as accurate to the original as reasonably possible. I have heard the Pietta guns still use the two position base pin that qualifies as a safety under the ATF's import nonsense. I've been looking at the Cimarron offerings, particularly a .357 5.5" Frontier Blued with Cased hardend frame  and walnut grips, fairly reasonably priced from midway. Last I recall the Frontier models are Pietta guns imported by Cimarron.

 

I don't plan on shooting black powder, so the downside of the Pietta is not very relevant to me (fixed bushing of some sort, I don't recall exactly).

Would the Cimarron guns be the best bet for a relatively accurate representation of a original 1873 at a reasonable cost? 

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The Cimarron Frontier and EMF GW-II are very similar.  The two-position basepin can be shortened or replaced with a short Uberti pin (from VTI) or a Colt part.  The Piettas are pretty close to 2nd Gen Colts.  The Cimarron Uberti Old Model P (BP frame) still comes with standard firing pin and is pretty close to 1st gen colts.  

 

edit: I thought the Piettas had removeable cylinder bushings.  Might not be easy first time, neither are Uberti sometimes.

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13 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

The Cimarron Frontier and EMF GW-II are very similar.  The two-position basepin can be shortened or replaced with a short Uberti pin (from VTI) or a Colt part.  The Piettas are pretty close to 2nd Gen Colts.  The Cimarron Uberti Old Model P (BP frame) still comes with standard firing pin and is pretty close to 1st gen colts.  

 

edit: I thought the Piettas had removeable cylinder bushings.  Might not be easy first time, neither are Uberti sometimes.

 

I am not too concerned about the cylinder bushings or base pin not being exact, I more just want to avoid any transfer bars or retracting firing pins.

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We recently bought a Pietta Cimarron Eleminator 8 at local gun shop.  While it's outfitted with 60 Army grip frame, octagon barrel and lowered hammer,  the main mechanical features are more like Colt than Uberti.

 

1036252639_PiettaEleminatorhandandhammerAug2018.jpg.86c73b77daa06b5c7947ac1ab70d870f.jpg

 

Replaceable hammer cam.

209232374_cylinderchamferAug2018.jpg.3a692836a64b6f8b46188a2f16248260.jpg

 

Front contour of cylinder is much like first generation Colt.

2025745250_PiettaEleminatorfiringpinbushingAug2018.jpg.841b2d2d352e2dfbcf28ce908f7fd6d8.jpg

 

Replaceable firing pin bushing.

 

565516820_PiettaEleminatorbasepinAug2018.jpg.9ccd9d6fde5ff3e54ea976c50ad56246.jpg

 

The base pin is easily shortened. 

 

530678106_PiettaEleminatorinsidepartsAug2018.jpg.ddc156e8c7477c41a1d479ceeab7902d.jpg

 

Here are the guts in the Pietta Eleminator.  It does come with reduced power hammer spring that I assume is an upgrade to this model.  Otherwise,  no safety junk.

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21 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

OP-What's your concern about t'bars and such of the Rugers? :unsure:

My reason for buying a SAA is to have a fairly accurate representation of what was used 100+ years ago, sure the ruger is stronger and safer but if I wanted something with modern safety and strength I wouldn't be looking at revolvers based on designs that are a century and a half old.

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What Abilene Said.  Plus, were it me, I'd opt for a Pietta GW II.  If you want to get completely away from safeties, transfer bars and other such encumbrances, your choices are USFA (No longer produced) or Standard Mfg (New kid on the block).  Bring your Broker.

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Well, consider this...

 

4440Right.thumb.JPG.ff2a57c31228e9c01694de90b75ccaa1.JPG

 

This is a First Generation Colt that I recently got for $500 thanks to it's horrible chrome refinish.   It's 1880's vintage, and it as tight as a drum.  An honest shooter.  Course, it's black powder only.

 

But I also have a 2nd Gen that has not been refinished, it just has no finish left, that I got for $700 about 2 years ago.  (Sorry, not pic at the moment.

 

The point is, that shootable Colts can be found for affordable prices, if you keep your eyes open and are patient.

 

And for that matter, so can decent pre-safety clones for even less money, if you are willing to go the used route.

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13 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 And for that matter, so can decent pre-safety clones for even less money, if you are willing to go the used route.

 

I still see a lot of new Uberti Cattleman revolvers in gunshops that are not the new Cattleman II.  Most will have the little rotating block safety but that generally hasn't been a problem. 

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15 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

What Abilene Said.  Plus, were it me, I'd opt for a Pietta GW II.  If you want to get completely away from safeties, transfer bars and other such encumbrances, your choices are USFA (No longer produced) or Standard Mfg (New kid on the block).  Bring your Broker.

I am not against having a safety, I just don't want any that drastically changes the internals, hammer or looks of the gun.  My understanding that the only safety on the Pietta guns is the two position base pin, which is completely acceptable to me. 

 

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1 minute ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I think Pietta has a line with transfer bar so look close before you buy. 

I heard that was mainly on the .44's, I read here that someone had a blank firing model that also had one.

This is part of reason I've had such a hard time looking for one, there isn't a whole ton of information and then they seem to change the features from retailer to retailer so it's hard to figure out what has them and what doesn't. 

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Howdy

 

First of all, " I want a SAA that is as accurate to the original as reasonably possible" is a moving target.

 

There were subtle changes that happened to the Colt Single Action Army all through its production, from 1873 right up until the present day. If you want something that is going to be "as original as possible", you are going to be looking for one with the pinched frame rear sight and conical firing pin. Nobody is making a replica of that.

 

There are probably plenty of the older Ubertis still in the supply chain with the firing pin fixed in the hammer, rather than the new retractable firing pin models. That is really all that should concern you.

 

The two position cylinder pin has been around for a long time. I bought this Cimarron Cattleman used at least fifteen years ago. Personally I found the two position pin to be very annoying. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a shooter come up to the line and start clicking away because he forgot to pull the pin forward. I  replaced the pin on this one with one from Belt Mountain.

 

cattleman%2004_zpsjgx0blgh.jpg

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3 hours ago, Joe Smith said:

My reason for buying a SAA is to have a fairly accurate representation of what was used 100+ years ago, sure the ruger is stronger and safer but if I wanted something with modern safety and strength I wouldn't be looking at revolvers based on designs that are a century and a half old.

But you want it in .357? 

 

Haha no seriously I get you. Pietta is the closest in dimensions, but my understanding is that the ubertis these days are much better shooters, and have less issues out of the box. From what I understand, you can still get the regular hammer from uberti on the bp frame guns. I think cimarron calls them old model. They also have the pinched sights and smaller blade. As for the pietta and the extra long base pin, you can either grind it down, or easily replace it with an uberti one. Not a colt one though. It won’t fit. 

 

Read this lengthy post from a very good friend of mine. Best review on single action guns you’ll ever find 

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/single-action-army/343097-state-art.html#/topics/343097?page=1

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EMF GWII Pietta built guns are what your looking for IMO. They are well made, reliable, accurate {mine are } fairly priced and they DO have removable cylinder bushings like Colts had. Having owned a few { to many } Colts in my life, the GWII guns are my preferred choice these days for a P model clone.

Just my opinion :)

 

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3 minutes ago, Captain Clark said:

EMF GWII Pietta built guns are what your looking for IMO. They are well made, reliable, accurate {mine are } fairly priced and they DO have removable cylinder bushings like Colts had. Having owned a few { to many } Colts in my life, the GWII guns are my preferred choice these days for a P model clone.

Just my opinion :)

 

I have been looking at the EMF's since they were mentioned , found them for a fair amount less than what Midway had for the Cimarron models. The 5.5" California model is most likely what I will go with. 

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My perspective on the various SAA's is from a gunsmiths view. Not what they cost or how well they retain their value. Purely from the mechanical perspective.

 

If you want tuff out of the box, Ruger is the way to go, but I don`t consider it to be a clone. The ruger lock works were designed in the 1950's. It is nothing like the colt style lock basically unchanged since 1836.

 

Comparing Rugers to a colt SAA or Colt SAA clone is like comparing 60`s muscle cars to model T`s.

 

I think the finest Colt style SAA made, hands down, bar none was the USFA guns. I think they are a much better gun than the 3rd gen Colts, too but they are no longer made.

    The best italian made SAA is the Great Western II`s from EMF. When EMF decided to import these, Will Hansen, EMF`s manager at the time sent one to me for a look-see. He told me take it apart, shoot it, whatever I wanted to do. These guns are 2nd gen configured, even the thread pitch is the same. They even have firing pin bushings like the originals, the bolt cam on the hammer is a hardened and pressed in part like the Colt, the cylinder bolt is the late model with the rounded tips to help prevent wear on the cam. The EMF does have a change that I see as an improvement. The weakest link in the colt action, the leaf type hand spring. Pietta  changed it to the Ruger style coil spring and plunger.

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Does or has EMF offer a black powder frame SAA? I did not find one on their website currently listed.

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29 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Does or has EMF offer a black powder frame SAA? I did not find one on their website currently listed.

I don't know if EMF has it, but the Cimarron Pietta is available with BP frame.

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Abilene,  does Cimarron offer a Pietta stainless in 44WCF?   

 

Looks like an obvious combination seeing how the 44WCF is a popular black powder round.  But all I see in stainless are 357 and 45 Colt. 

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39 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Abilene,  does Cimarron offer a Pietta stainless in 44WCF?   

 

Looks like an obvious combination seeing how the 44WCF is a popular black powder round.  But all I see in stainless are 357 and 45 Colt. 

That's right, .45 and .357 only.  Same with the stainless Ubertis.  I guess they figure 44-40 / BP shooters are more likely to be into traditional finishes.

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18 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

Well, consider this...

 

4440Right.thumb.JPG.ff2a57c31228e9c01694de90b75ccaa1.JPG

 

This is a First Generation Colt that I recently got for $500 thanks to it's horrible chrome refinish.   It's 1880's vintage, and it as tight as a drum.  An honest shooter.  Course, it's black powder only.

 

But I also have a 2nd Gen that has not been refinished, it just has no finish left, that I got for $700 about 2 years ago.  (Sorry, not pic at the moment.

 

The point is, that shootable Colts can be found for affordable prices, if you keep your eyes open and are patient.

 

And for that matter, so can decent pre-safety clones for even less money, if you are willing to go the used route.

 

Local gun shop has a Colt in 38WCF that is also horribly over polished and nickel plated with most of the plating off one side of the cylinder.  He is asking $1,800 for it.  

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2 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

Does or has EMF offer a black powder frame SAA? I did not find one on their website currently listed.

I called them and have one on special order. That was about two years ago. I’ll let you know if I ever get one. 

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4 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Local gun shop has a Colt in 38WCF that is also horribly over polished and nickel plated with most of the plating off one side of the cylinder.  He is asking $1,800 for it.  

 

Hmm...

 

He's asking too much!

 

:lol:

 

Oh, my above pictured one is a .44-40

 

The non pictured referenced one is a .45

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Howdy,

Not sure if you ever considered the three screw Rugers?

If you find an unconverted Blackhawk in 357 or even a flattop

you will have a heck for stout revolver and they have decent resale value.

Find one with no box and normal wear, have a gunsmith check it over

and you are good to go.

Just keep a couple screwdrivers handy and check the screws as with any shootin iron.

A lot of these have years of safe time and shoot very well.

Some don't consider these colt clones but targets don't care.

Best

CR

 

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1624793492_TaylorsStallions.jpg.ab2ac193e40d498f8199b748dba85d98.jpgHowdy Joe Smith: My guns are all Uberti Stallion's which shoot nothing but .38 special, light weight just like a Colt. looks like a colt, feels like a colt, clicks like a colt.

Attached are some photos: Changed to some Beretta grips just recently and did place SBH hammers onto them. Photos don't show the switched hammers on them but you can view them on the ones with stag grips.

 

The Uberti's are model Stallions. Taylor's carry these Uberti Stallion revolvers just under $500.00 last I priced them..  Use these in Cowboy action shooting and very accurate.  Happy shooting pilgrim

 

Questions ask at jgp3749@cox.net

 

JRJ

Stallions New Grips.JPG

DSCN5151.JPG

DSCN5148.JPG

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I would rather have a pair of revolvers with “lawyer” safeties that shoot to point of aim  than revolvers without safeties that need Kentucky windage.

 

I lucked into a pair of Uberti Ranch Hands with the two-position base pins that shoot to Point of Aim.  I’m satisfied, not going to tinker with those.

 

Good luck on your quest.

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11 hours ago, Chili Ron said:

Howdy,

Not sure if you ever considered the three screw Rugers?

If you find an unconverted Blackhawk in 357 or even a flattop

you will have a heck for stout revolver and they have decent resale value.

Find one with no box and normal wear, have a gunsmith check it over

and you are good to go.

Just keep a couple screwdrivers handy and check the screws as with any shootin iron.

A lot of these have years of safe time and shoot very well.

Some don't consider these colt clones but targets don't care.

Best

CR

 

The Ruger guns look off to me, I can't put my finger on it but they don't look as svelte as a proper clone. Case hardening and bluing looks nicer on the EMF ones too, more interesting to look at where as the Ruger looks more muted. 

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On 8/27/2018 at 7:38 AM, Jackrabbit Joe #414 said:

Howdy Joe Smith: My guns are all Uberti Stallion's which shoot nothing but .38 special, light weight just like a Colt. looks like a colt, feels like a colt, clicks like a colt.

Attached are some photos: Changed to some Beretta grips just recently and did place SBH hammers onto them. Photos don't show the switched hammers on them but you can view them on the ones with stag grips.

 

The Uberti's are model Stallions. Taylor's carry these Uberti Stallion revolvers just under $500.00 last I priced them..  Use these in Cowboy action shooting and very accurate.  Happy shooting pilgrim

 

Questions ask at jgp3749@cox.net

 

JRJ

 

 

Stallions are light weight, but not like a Colt, and certainly don't feel like a Colt. I believe they are 3/4 the size of a colt. Unless you are talking about a Colt scout?

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Redwood Kid I do understand what you stated and will not argue the point. That's your opinion and respected.

My statement  is what I feel about these Stallions. I'm not saying that they are Colts. 

 

Respectfully:

Jackrabbit Joe #414

 

 

 

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