Reloading .38sp crushed cases

[Crusty Knees]

I'm getting into reloading .38sp.   I'm using a Lee Turret Press with 4 stations, and Lee dies. I'm belling the case just enough to hold the .38 TCFP,  I'm seating only deep enough to reach the crimp groove which gives me an OAL of 1.47.  But, I end up with a lot of creased or crumped brass cases.    OK, I know I'm doing something wrong but I can't figure it.  Suggestions?  Anybody run in to this before?  

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Are you using a Lee 3 die set? The seating and crimping are done with the same die. Be sure that the crimp die is not crimping before the seating portion is fully seated. Back the crimp off quite a ways, then adjust you seating of the bullet. Then back that portion of the die off and start bringing your crimp in. When you get that set, lock the outer ring. Then go to full stroke(down) with the press and screw the seating die down until it just contacts the nose of the bullet.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Good chance your Crimp Die is set too deep.

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

+1

Ditto your seat/crimp die is set too deep.

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

are your cases the same brand or random collection?    different overrall case lengths can cause problems

[John Boy]

Crusty, included with your die set is a piece of paper ... Instructions for each die.  Might want to determine if you set the seating die up correctly in the press ... https://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Pistol4.pdf

While your at it - check the adjustments for your other dies in the set

Edited August 13, 2018 by John Boy

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Seat and crimp, in 2 different operations.  

OLG

[John Boy]

Grits - believe Crusty has failed to read the instruction for his seating die ... the die that normally crimps cases if not adjusted properly. I ONCE failed to read the the seating die instructions for thin mouth 44WCF's - CRUMPED A FEW

Edited August 13, 2018 by John Boy

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

4 minutes ago, John Boy said:

Grits - believe Crusty has failed to read the instruction for his seating die ... the die that normally crimps cases if not adjusted properly. I ONCE failed to read the the seating die instructions for thin mouth 44WCF's - CRUMPED A FEW

 

Thin walled .44 WCF, and modern .38 Special are to different reloading 'worlds'.

OLG

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

If you set up a combined seat/crimp die properly, making sure that the seating depth of the slug still leaves a few thousandths of an inch between the mouth of the case and the bottom of the land (full diameter band that is just above the crimp groove), you can both seat and crimp in a single die.   (Although 2 separate dies does make setup about 5 minutes less work.)  

As others have said, you need to follow the instructions for the combined seat/crimp die PRECISELY. 

 

Where you are now, buckling your cases, means you have the seating depth too deep, and as the ram finishes upward movement, the cartridge mouth runs into the bottom of the land.  Even though you have a good crimp, you buckle the case.   So, you can back the seater stem out about one turn and try again.....you'll probably not get the seating depth quite right, but now sneak up to the correct length a quarter turn on the seating stem back in (down), until you get the good crimp, no buckling, and the thickness of a business card of a gap between case mouth and bottom edge of the land on the bullet.

 

When all set up right, make a proper length "dummy" round (no primer or powder) with the bullet seated and crimped perfectly in your supplies, so when you need to set your die again, you can get real close during setup.

 

To setup up again - Start by backing off the seater stem a couple three turns, then run that dummy round into the seat/crimp die that has been unscrewed from press 1 turn (that keeps crimp from working).  Lower the seater stem until it just touches the bullet of the dummy round.   Then back off on seater stem about 2 turns.  Now screw die fully back into press, so that you both seat and crimp at same time.  Should be real close - but adjust seater stem if depth is not perfect, or turn the die body in if you want more crimp.

 

You will probably want to lay in an inertia (hammer type) bullet puller because you will make a few ugly rounds while doing the setup.  Just pull bullet, dump out powder, and run through the load cycle again.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Tinpan McGurk]

For what it is worth...you can use  the Lee factory crimp die in the next station after you seat the bullet rather than crimping and seating in the same step ..it has the following advantages:

 

once it is set you can put anything from a mild to a very strong crimp on without crushing the case

cases do not have to be trimmed to the same exact length

it will crimp even if you do not use a bullet with a crimping groove or you need to crimp below the groove to get the OAL you need for your rifle

the die is inexpensive Midway has the Carbide die (no case lube needed) for $18.50

you can use the same die for .38 and .357 

it will actually gently resize the case to eliminate any case bulges

 

disadvantage is that because of the way it crimps you might not get as much life out of nickel plated cases as with a mild taper crimp but I have been using them on .38/.357, 45 colt, 30-06, .223, .270, 44-40, .300 Blackout and 45-70 for years without any problems and have been using the same cases for many reloads. I do check each case for neck cracks after I re-size them

 

For safety sake I run all my finished ammo through a case gauge and when I have used the Lee Factory Crimp die, I have never had one that didn't meet spec.

 

Tinpan McGurk 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by Tinpan McGurk

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

X2 on what TM sez-

I use the Lee FCD and a Dillon case checker gauge.

OLG

[Griff]

Proper Rollcrimp Adjustment