Gunfighter -Confessions of a Double Cocker

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

I’m looking for advice on how to transition from double-cocking to alternating cocking for gun fighting.  I’m fortunate to have some top Jedi Gunfighter friends and mentors.  They have given me great advice, but I’d like to know if there are other drills or thoughts that I haven’t heard of yet.

 

Double cocking just felt “right” from the very beginning.  When things go smoothly, I’m capable of very impressive pistol strings.  However, I’m also now more prone to colossal “train-wrecks”.

 

Sure everyone in our game has occasional “cranial flatulence”, but I don’t remember having many problems when I was shooting traditional and later double duelist. Now instead of just remembering the target order, I’m thinking about which targets I need to single cock on before I double cock. Then, is that a single cock with the right or left hand?  For more added confusion, do I want to change leads? If so, how many lead changes does this stage call for?  

 

All of this has led to “paralysis by analysis”.  Yesterday, after two horrific stages, I have committed to stop double cocking.  I want to be able to just think about the target order and not have to have a bunch of other thoughts in my head.  When I coached high school football, this was referred to as the “KISS” principle – keep it simple stupid.

 

At our after match socializing session, I did ask my mentors if, when drawing your revolvers, do you cock both them before shooting, or do you start alternating right away.  I got two different answers.  I’m also curious as to how many of the top gunfighters immediately cock a fired gun before they fire a round from the second gun.  One top gunfighter said that he was taught to practice dry firing by not firing the second pistol until he re-cocked the first pistol. The idea was to learn the technique slowly at first and then increase speed.

 

I’m committed to this change.  I know it’s going to take a lot of dry firing to be comfortable again.  I’m all ears to anything that has helped you to be a successful alternate cocking gunfighter.     

[Widder, SASS #59054]

MONGO,

 

Personally, alternate cocking works for me.   BUT, one of the best GFer's I have ever seen is Bad River Marty in Michigan.....and he double cocks.

 

But I think you have realized that its a 'brain thing'.

 

Anyhow, I cock both pistols out of the holsters..... bang,  cock/bang,   which means that once I fire the 1st round, I immediately cock that pistol at the same time I am firing the 2nd shot from the other pistol, and continue this method thru the 10 shot string.

Basically, except for the 1st shot, I will be cocking one pistol as I fire the second pistol.     My left thumb works in conjunction with my right trigger finger.   And my right thumb works in conjunction with my left trigger finger.

 

This works good for me and I never worry about cocking a pistol after the 10th round has fired because I've dry fired enough that I don't cock anymore once the 10th round has fired.

 

I rarely change leads.   Basically is because I cross over just as efficient and it keeps the alternate cocking style consistent.

 

Mileage varies on this subject but one thing that I believe is universal..... its a brain thing.

 

..........Widder

 

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

I'll take a shot, tho I am far from a top gunfighter.  

 

And I use a very different methodology than most.

I firmly believe the SAA was designed to roll in your hand and that recoil impulse was intended to bring the hammer rearward so your thumb could catch the hammer and retain it as your pinky under the grip rolled the gun back to level.  

Since I am using the recoil and roll of the pistol; it only made sense (to me) to be cocking the pistols individually as they were fired.

Fire one, and then fire the other as the first is recoiling, cock the first as the second is recoiling.  Repeat.

 

Also to establish that alternating pattern; I draw the first pistol slightly ahead of the second as to give the guns an order instead of pulling both perfectly simultaneously.

 

Like I said, I'm not a top Gunfighter, but this is the method that works for me.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

Mongo, have you read Buck D Law's Gunfighter 101?

 

Randy

[Smokestack SASS#87384]

I know this is not exactly an answer to your question, but it’s another option to consider. When I shoot gunfighter, I slip hammer. Holding the triggers down and releasing the hammers when it’s time to shoot. It’s not for everyone, but it’s what feels best to me. This causes you to kind of naturally alternate. 

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

if you want to break the habit,,, just single cock as you draw your revolvers,,,,  then later as you get used to it,,, dbl cock to start as widder does, and then alternate

 

I alternate,  and on occasion change leads when called for,,, it works for me

 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I'll take a shot, tho I am far from a top gunfighter.  

 

And I use a very different methodology than most.

I firmly believe the SAA was designed to roll in your hand and that recoil impulse was intended to bring the hammer rearward so your thumb could catch the hammer and retain it as your pinky under the grip rolled the gun back to level.  

Since I am using the recoil and roll of the pistol; it only made sense (to me) to be cocking the pistols individually as they were fired.

Fire one, and then fire the other as the first is recoiling, cock the first as the second is recoiling.  Repeat.

 

Also to establish that alternating pattern; I draw the first pistol slightly ahead of the second as to give the guns an order instead of pulling both perfectly simultaneously.

 

Like I said, I'm not a top Gunfighter, but this is the method that works for me.

That’s exactly how I do it. 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I haven't been shooting Gunfighter all that long.  About 25 years maybe.  Maybe a little more.  I've seen double cockers get into lots of trouble with a cocked pistol when it shouldn't be.  I've been shooting the same method as Widder as long as I have been a Gunfighter.

[evil dogooder]

My perspective is free so take it for what you spent on it. 

   Start slow.  Your hands do not work at the same speed. So as you draw one hand will be faster. Get in the practice of cocking the hammer as soon as you get to 50 degree that way one will be cocked first.  After that just follow with the motion. When your right finger pulls pack your left thumb should be in motion.  And vice versa .

 

 I would highly recommend not teaching yourself to slip hammer. If you go to a match that isn't up close and personal like ten feet away you will miss more. 

  

[evil dogooder]

This run we had to knock down two activators then hit the tip up paper target 

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Thanks!  Several good observations were listed.  Some of Buck D. Law's ideas were already mentioned to me.  I will have to try and located his Gunfighter 101 stuff.

 

Mongo 

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

As Widder stated, I taught myself to shoot gunfighter by drawing and cocking both, then shoot one and cock that one while I shoot the other and so on. Call it alternating duelist but both my pistols are cocked as each guns hammer falls.

[Warden Callaway]

I'm getting more comfortable shooting gunfighter.  A couple of years back I started a topic "gunfighter eyes" that generated a lot of good information. 

 

I noticed a couple of matches back that I was aiming my right pistol with my right eye, and left with my left.  I can't say I'm better or worse using just my right eye or both. Seems like lately I'll do good on 4 stages, slip up on one and crash on one. 

 

Probably the way to improve is to set in front of the TV and dry fire practice until your wife steps in front of you with a cast iron skillet and says, "Snap those XXXX things one more time and I'll brain you!". 

 

 

[Waimea]

If you can do what Widder is talking about live firing, you'll have to show me.

I do great at it dry firing but put live rounds in and I can't even do a decent Nevada sweep.

I cock while the alternate gun is recoiling, I think.

 

Waimea

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Waimea, my friend, and witness to one of my most spectacular train-wrecks, you know why I'm making the change!

[Chicken Scratch]

On 8/12/2018 at 2:40 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

But I think you have realized that its a 'brain thing'.

So that's my problem I ain't got no Brain

my guns just do the thinking for me

 

Chicken Scratch

[Waimea]

14 hours ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Waimea, my friend, and witness to one of my most spectacular train-wrecks, you know why I'm making the change!

I have wiped THAT stage from my memory.

My Trainwreck was sad.

Yours was indeed SPECTACULAR.

[Guest Hollywood Dave]

Hi Mongo, was I there that day?  I'm glad I was unloading at the time. It was nice you got the SOG award. 

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Dave, 

 

Good to hear from you.  Yes, it was one of those "laugh or cry" moments.  Soldiering on was a better choice than hiding.

 

That type of train-wreck is something I want to avoid at all costs in the future; thus the reason for the change.  I think ingraining alternate cocking will enable me to concentrate more on the target order.  My feeble mind can't handle multiple thoughts during the middle of shooting a stage.     

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

1 hour ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

 I think ingraining alternate cocking will enable me to concentrate more on the target order.  My feeble mind can't handle multiple thoughts during the middle of shooting a stage.     

All good info here, and I think you have answered your own question KISS. I'm right handed so I'm more inclined to shoot stages left to right, so I start most stages with my weak hand left.  At the start that's the strongest my left hand will be, which leaves me ending most stages with my strong right. I don't switch leads cause I don't really think of it as crossing over, all you are doing is sorta pushing each gun side to side. All this from a shooter that hopes to break the 40 second barrier some day Good Luck

[Waimea]

Did you see how Preachman shoots?

He alternates but keeps his wrists almost locked together.

Never pumps the guns. Says it wastes time.

Shoots in the low 20's most stages.

Must be something to what he says.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

There's a couple of us Loons ...... Whom firmly believe, it's Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter with Cap Gun Snubbies.  Nothing quite as much fun as having TWO Cap Guns up and belching Fire and Smoke you betcha!!!!  I don't personally care which side the sequence starts from. I don't have a "strong side" any more.  At my age .... I'm equally weak and I change leads whenever it seems a good idea.

 

Several (Many) Lustrum ago, in a galaxy far .. far .. away (Colorado) I helped start Preacherman down the slippery slope of Gunfighter.  Gunfighters ROCK  ('specially wid Cap Guns you betcha).  Pumping ain't a good idea.  Use to be Illegal and if ya read the rule as written, still is, but is mostly ignored.

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

10 hours ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

All good info here, and I think you have answered your own question KISS. I'm right handed so I'm more inclined to shoot stages left to right, so I start most stages with my weak hand left.  At the start that's the strongest my left hand will be, which leaves me ending most stages with my strong right. I don't switch leads cause I don't really think of it as crossing over, all you are doing is sorta pushing each gun side to side. All this from a shooter that hopes to break the 40 second barrier some day Good Luck

 

Howdy Jefro.

 

You pretty much stated the same style that I use.    You're right about the 'cross over' wording because in reality, we are just pushing each gun side to side.

 

And, like you, I also start with my left pistol.   Its just how I'm wired.

 

As for stage times, I can manage a few sub 20 runs, even with a 10-10-6 target setup.

 

 

 

..........Widder

 

[LostVaquero]

Oh now I learn I am doing it all wrong.  I will confess to double cocking, right now I find it easier to do. 

Last few shoots been doing gunfighter style (I shoot B Western category).  Managed to get 5 clean stages one shoot and some mid 30s after four shoots gunfighter style.  Thought I had it going on, but now it appears that double cocking is not the way to go. 

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

I've been dry firing so much at the TV the last week that my forearms ache from holding the guns up.

 

I had the pleasure of shooting with Preacher Man at Black Gold this year.  He has flawless technique. 

 

While double cocking, I could keep it in the mid-twenties and sometimes lower.  The killer is when you throw a "P" in there on multiple stages because I was thinking of a million different things other than target order.  Now that I'm converting, I'm afraid my times will be slower at first, but hopefully my number of mistakes will decrease.  There is nothing wrong with double cocking, I prefer it.  I just can't seem to execute it consistently for five or six stages without screwing something up.   

 

Widder shoots steady pistols, but where he really shines is with his 97.  When his shotgun is on, he can tear-up a stage.

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

On 8/12/2018 at 7:24 PM, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Thanks!  Several good observations were listed.  Some of Buck D. Law's ideas were already mentioned to me.  I will have to try and located his Gunfighter 101 stuff.

 

Mongo 

Mongo I have tried to attach a copy of Gunfighter 101. Also some info on gun fighting,. not sure who wrote it or where I got. maybe off one of the forums.  If you can't open it let me know. I double cock also. Just easier to me. As you know I don't burn up any stages.

 

Gunfighter 101.pdf

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Thanks Ethan!

 

Buck D. Law and Reno Mustang both sent me a copy within minutes of each other.

 

If any of you other gunfighters haven't seen this yet, click on Uncle Ethan's post above.  It's well worth reading. 

[Flash]

7 minutes ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Thanks Ethan!

 

Buck D. Law and Reno Mustang both sent me a copy within minutes of each other.

 

If any of you other gunfighters haven't seen this yet, click on Uncle Ethan's post above.  It's well worth reading. 

The link does not  work

[Fast Harley,SASS#34953]

My name is Harley and I am a double cocker.....years ago when I started Gunfighter many were. I could always run the

guns, but I had trouble with the target orders. I began to think of the two pistols as a ten shot gun and that works for me.

That said, I would NEVER advise  or teach someone to be a double cocker. Alternating is much wiser. Lassiter has said to

me more than once: "Double cocking is the way to madness."

What I say to prospective gunfighters is: "Shoot double duelist a while." Uses both sides of your brain.

I can change leads at will, but that confuses some spotters. There are many other downsides.

Learn the way of the Widder, Luke. May the force be with you.

Harley.

 

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Sorry Flash.  The link works for me.  When I click on it a small box appears on the bottom left of the screen.  Once you click on that box, it should pop right up. 

 

Harley was one of the several gunfighters that inspired me to become one.

[Flash]

1 hour ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

Sorry Flash.  The link works for me.  When I click on it a small box appears on the bottom left of the screen.  Once you click on that box, it should pop right up. 

 

Harley was one of the several gunfighters that inspired me to become one.

This is what I get when I click on the link. 

[Uncle Ethan # 94321]

try this Flash. link to a prior post that contained it.

 

 

[Blast Masterson]

I started SASS as Dbl Duelist with the intent to improve my week hand. Switched to GF shortly thereafter. I agree with shooting duelist first is the way to go. 

 

I shoot like Widder describes. Came natural.

Then I started Dbl Cocking. I stopped that after I mastered it and only use it to change leads now.

 

When considering how you want to shoot, consider this; You want to multi-task (doing two or more things during the same time frame) as much as possible without diminishing your accuracy. 

Cocking one gun as you fire the other is faster than taking the time to double cock two pistols, then fire them. To speed up the double cock, you have to give less time to accuracy. A miss is 5 sec.! To recover your time, you would have to shoot five more shots in 0 sec.! Thus you try to shoot faster to make up the miss. This further degrades you accuracy as you are performing beyond your ability to shoot.

 

Also, as you can not shoot two guns at once, you have to slow down so you don't get a call as a miss or penalty from spotters.

 

Some can shoot from the hip and hit without traditional aiming. That is due to advanced shooting ability, not from the dbl cock technique.

 

BTW: I just shot 2 hand supported for the first time in 11 months shooting SASS, and I suck!

It's all about what you train to do.

 

 

[Jackalope]

The shiver in the Force and the dull "thud" you heard this weekend was a "rehabilitated" double-cocking gunfghter falling off the wagon.

 

I hope he finds his way...one day at a time, one day at a time...

 

[Tom Bullweed]

I have shot GF for about two years.  I am average, at best, but noticed something while watching a couple of videos in slow-mo  of me shooting.  Without the videos, I cannot tell you how I cock hammers.  Right-handed shooting not too weak .45s.  Left gun fires and recoil.  Right gun fires and recoil.  The left gun recoil more because I am right handed (More muscle?).  I cock both guns as soon as the hammers are under my thumbs by levering the guns back horizontal with my ring finger, hammers cocked as quickly as possible.  Looks simultaneous, but the action feels separate.  Making lead changes works pretty well.