n the Absence of Orders: Attack!

[Sedalia Dave]

Trailrider's comment on another thread reminded me of this.

A French Soldier's View of US Soldiers in Afghanistan

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

A classic.

I found these while checking up on the OP's article:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/what-generation-kill-tells-a-french-soldier-about-u-s-military-culture/

 

http://www.aei.org/publication/heres-how-armed-forces-of-other-nations-view-the-us-military/

[DocWard]

Quote

They have a terribly strong American accent - from our point of view the language they speak is not even English. How many times did I have to write down what I wanted to say rather than waste precious minutes trying various pronunciations of a seemingly common word? Whatever State they are from, no two accents are alike and they even admit that in some crisis situations they have difficulties understanding each other. Heavily built, fed at the earliest age with Gatorade, proteins and creatine- they are all heads and shoulders taller than us and their muscles remind us of Rambo. Our frames are amusingly skinny to them - we are wimps, even the strongest of us - and because of that they often mistake us for Afghans.

 

I can say I never ran across any French soldiers in my travels. I did have occasion to meet soldiers from several other countries though, both as part of my medical training and on deployment. I'll just add a few observations.

Australian soldiers all seemed to be lean and energetic, but laid back at the same time. Friendly, and easy to talk to. Definite accent, but easily understandable. The ones I met were medics doing some training at Camp Arifjan, so male and female alike.

 

British soldiers. I spent a number of hours at a USO and having chow at Ali al Salem Air Base with members of the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers. Great guys. To look at them without hearing them, they could be any average American soldier. To watch them for awhile, it is clear they are combat arms. They take their work and play seriously, talking shop when relaxing. When talking with me, I could understand them with ease. When carrying on a conversation with each other, it was like a different language.

 

A squad size element of Polish soldiers came through Camp Patriot on their way out of Iraq, and were there about a week. I never did find out what their unit was or jobs were. I didn't really get to talk to them much because they generally kept to themselves, but their English was understandable, if somewhat broken. The thing that struck me is that I'm not a small guy at 5'11, and then 200lb. Most of the Polish soldiers were at least my height or taller by a couple of inches, but I've never seen people so broad as a group. Not just broad shouldered, their entire builds from shoulders down. They were just these massive bodied guys, many with heavy mustaches (think Selleck or Ellliot,). They seemed serious but polite.

 

Kuwaiti military were mostly officers, except those on the gun trucks we would work with. The naval officers almost always wore whites, and they looked immaculate. The soldiers were almost always in battle dress. The soldiers were either very fit or quite overweight, not much in between it seemed. They spoke English with a proper English accent, as most every Kuwaiti I met did. There was one Kuwaiti civilian I met who spent a number of years in Texas, his accent was interesting to say the least. At any rate, the Kuwaitis were friendly, and very helpful. Some found them to be a bit arrogant, but as that wasn't really my experience, especially the Major who was acting as an interpreter for us who didn't bother to take his Rolex off before starting to dig when our driver got a Humvee stuck. Mind you, he could have said "I need to be back on post" and gotten a ride in a vehicle that was there for the purpose, but he stayed with us until he knew we were pulled free.

There were others, but those stand out.

[Chantry]

14 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

A classic.

I found these while checking up on the OP's article:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/05/what-generation-kill-tells-a-french-soldier-about-u-s-military-culture/

 

http://www.aei.org/publication/heres-how-armed-forces-of-other-nations-view-the-us-military/

From the second link:

"Nepalese here. I’m not an Army here but I’ve got a number of friends serving in Nepalese army and some of them have come here (states) for trainings (mostly with Rangers). Based on their experiences, as far as training itself, they didn’t have that big of difficulty. From what I hear, Nepalese Army’s Commando training for 42 days (I believe) is among the most rigorous."   

 

So the Nepalese Commandos think Ranger training isn't that difficult?  

 

[Chantry]

2 hours ago, DocWard said:

A squad size element of Polish soldiers came through Camp Patriot on their way out of Iraq, and were there about a week. I never did find out what their unit was or jobs were. I didn't really get to talk to them much because they generally kept to themselves, but their English was understandable, if somewhat broken. The thing that struck me is that I'm not a small guy at 5'11, and then 200lb. Most of the Polish soldiers were at least my height or taller by a couple of inches, but I've never seen people so broad as a group. Not just broad shouldered, their entire builds from shoulders down. They were just these massive bodied guys, many with heavy mustaches (think Select or Ellliot,). They seemed serious but polite.

 

 

There is a fair chance they were members of the Polish Special Forces unit GROM  Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_GROM

 

What little I have heard suggests they are pretty good

 

 

[Pat Riot]

Dave, thanks for posting that article.

[Sedalia Dave]

19 hours ago, Chantry said:

From the second link:

"Nepalese here. I’m not an Army here but I’ve got a number of friends serving in Nepalese army and some of them have come here (states) for trainings (mostly with Rangers). Based on their experiences, as far as training itself, they didn’t have that big of difficulty. From what I hear, Nepalese Army’s Commando training for 42 days (I believe) is among the most rigorous."   

 

So the Nepalese Commandos think Ranger training isn't that difficult?  

 

 

Gurkhas hail exclusively from Nepal. If the members of the Royal Nepalese Army are 1/2 as tough as a Gurkha I want them on my side.

 

The motto of the Royal Nepalese Army: It's better to die than to be a coward. Everything I have read leads me to believe that it is more than just a motto

[Chantry]

12 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Gurkhas hail exclusively from Nepal. If the members of the Royal Nepalese Army are 1/2 as tough as a Gurkha I want them on my side.

 

The motto of the Royal Nepalese Army: It's better to die than to be a coward. Everything I have read leads me to believe that it is more than just a motto

 

"Gurkhas hail exclusively from Nepal" that is less true than it once was, while the British Army & the Indian Army still recruit heavily from the Gurkhas in Nepal, children of currently serving Gurkhas can also join the military and some have been raised outside of Nepal.

 

I suspect a significant chunk of the Royal Nepalese Army are Gurkhas and the percentage is almost certainly higher among their Army's special forces.  The Gurkhas in the British Army & Indian Army are undoubtedly better trained and better equipped than the Gurkhas in the Royal Nepalese Army

 

I own most of the English language books about Gurkhas and if anything, the stories about the Gurkhas may even be understated.  

 

You are correct that "It's better to die than to be a coward" is more than just a motto and they have certainly lived up to that motto.

 

Being a Gurkha soldier, especially in the British Army is a prestigious position socially & financially.  The average annual income in Nepal is $837, among the Gurkhas, it is probably closer to between $300-$500 a year.  A Gurkha private in the British Army beginning his second year of service is paid $26.000 a year.  (All amounts are in US dollars).  In other words take your current salary and multiply it by 52, that is how wealthy a Gurkha private is compared to his parents.

[DocWard]

12 hours ago, Chantry said:

 

There is a fair chance they were members of the Polish Special Forces unit GROM  Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JW_GROM

 

What little I have heard suggests they are pretty good

 

 

 

Could well have been. Looking at the "known operations" it is certainly possible.

 

I didn't notice until I read your quote though that autocorrect changed "Selleck" to "Select." I fixed it

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

4 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Gurkhas hail exclusively from Nepal. If the members of the Royal Nepalese Army are 1/2 as tough as a Gurkha I want them on my side.

 

The motto of the Royal Nepalese Army: It's better to die than to be a coward. Everything I have read leads me to believe that it is more than just a motto

 

 

"Indian Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw (1914-2008) famously said: “If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or is a Gurkha.”"

And, of course the Parachute Story:  

"The parachute gag has been doing the rounds in slightly varying versions for decades, but a bit of research suggests it may well have originated with Field Marshal William Slim (1891-1970), who between the wars was himself a Gurkha officer. He loved telling stories about their bravery. In his version, the Gurkhas are told they’re to jump out at 300 feet, and the Havildar (sergeant) asks if they can jump closer to the ground, but it’s explained to him that any lower than 300ft won’t give their parachutes time to open. “Oh,” replies the Havildar, “so we get parachutes, eh?”"

 

Didn't happen, of course, but a good story.  

 

Here are some true stories:  https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/g2173/10-amazing-gurkha-stories/

 

Quote

In Afghanistan in 2010, Acting Sergeant Dipprasad Pun single-handedly fought off 30 Taliban soldiers. As Pun was keeping guard on the roof of a checkpoint, the attackers came at the complex from all sides with rocket-propelled grenades and AK-47s.

It took less than an hour for Pun to kill them all. He went through all of his ammo—400 rounds and 17 grenades, as well as a mine that detonated—to defeat each attacker. When he ran out of ammo, a Taliban soldier climbed up to the roof, only to be hit with a machine-gun tripod that Pun threw at him.

Pun's valor was rewarded with a Conspicuous Gallantry Cross, the second highest British military decoration awarded for bravery.

And then there is Bishnu Shrestha

 

Quote

On September 2, 2010, Bishnu Shrestha was travelling in the Maurya Express, enjoying the view while sitting on his window seat  when the train entered the dense jungles of West Bengal. The 35-year-old ex-Gurkha soldier going home, after retiring from his position as a Naik in the Gurkha infantry. His father had served in the same as a soldier. But, he didn’t know what was going  to happen next. 

Around midnight, the train suddenly stopped and armed men walked in  from every direction, some of them were disguised as passengers and started scaring fellow passengers, looting them with knives, clubs and swords. About 40 of them stole from wallets, to jewelry, laptops to watches by waving knives in the faces of terror-stricken hostages. 

Bishnu remained quiet until the robbers turned their attention towards an 18-year-old girl and attempted to gang-rape her in front of her parents. At that point, Bishnu couldn’t tolerate anymore. 

After this incident, Bishnu had a serious blade injury on his left hand, but that did not stop him from ensuring the safety of passengers around him. The entire episode was over in 20 minutes. Police and emergency personnel were waiting at the next station. They took Bishnu to the hospital immediately. It took him almost two months to recover completely. 

Bishnu received two medals for his bravery along with silver-plated kukri and Rs 50,000 cash bonus, as well as the reward that was on the heads of the gang-members. The family of the girl, whom he saved also offered him a cash reward, but our brave soldier refused it. He said, ‘Fighting the enemy in battle is my duty as a soldier. Taking on the thugs on the train was my duty as a human being.’

 

[DocWard]

On 7/20/2018 at 11:40 AM, Chantry said:

From the second link:

"Nepalese here. I’m not an Army here but I’ve got a number of friends serving in Nepalese army and some of them have come here (states) for trainings (mostly with Rangers). Based on their experiences, as far as training itself, they didn’t have that big of difficulty. From what I hear, Nepalese Army’s Commando training for 42 days (I believe) is among the most rigorous."   

 

So the Nepalese Commandos think Ranger training isn't that difficult?  

 

 

Training "with Rangers" may not be the same as attending Ranger School. That may be where some of the confusion is. Also, even though Rangers fall under SOCOM, they aren't technically what one considers commandos. Instead, they are very highly trained light infantry, and use light infantry tactics.

[Chantry]

9 minutes ago, DocWard said:

 

Training "with Rangers" may not be the same as attending Ranger School. That may be where some of the confusion is. Also, even though Rangers fall under SOCOM, they aren't technically what one considers commandos. Instead, they are very highly trained light infantry, and use light infantry tactics.

 

I don't consider Rangers as SpecOps troops, but Ranger School, while easier than BUDS and other SpecOps schools, doesn't have a reputation as being particularly easy either. 

 

Whether they were going through Ranger School or just training with the Rangers here in the U.S., I still find find it interesting and a little surprising that troops from such a small and poor country as Nepal would consider training with Rangers, be it in Ranger School or with the Rangers themselves, as "Based on their experiences, as far as training itself, they didn’t have that big of difficulty."

[Subdeacon Joe]

25 minutes ago, Chantry said:

I still find find it interesting and a little surprising that troops from such a small and poor country as Nepal

 

 

"Small and poor" countries usually breed tough people because they are "small and poor."  

When virtually everything has to be done by hand the people in general have pretty good stamina.  Look to our own history and the sodbusters.  How  many people today, Rangers included, could do the physical labor day in, day out?

[Chantry]

1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

"Small and poor" countries usually breed tough people because they are "small and poor."  

When virtually everything has to be done by hand the people in general have pretty good stamina.  Look to our own history and the sodbusters.  How  many people today, Rangers included, could do the physical labor day in, day out?

 

Agreed, that's a very big reason Gurkhas are such good soldiers, but while small and poor countries may breed tough people, that does not mean that very many of the national armies of the small and poor countries can produce soldiers that can keep with the larger, stronger, better trained & better equipped military's of the West, much less top of the line light infantry like the US Rangers or British Gurkhas.

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

19 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

"Indian Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw (1914-2008) famously said: “If a man says he is not afraid of dying, he is either lying or is a Gurkha.”"

And, of course the Parachute Story:  

"The parachute gag has been doing the rounds in slightly varying versions for decades, but a bit of research suggests it may well have originated with Field Marshal William Slim (1891-1970), who between the wars was himself a Gurkha officer. He loved telling stories about their bravery. In his version, the Gurkhas are told they’re to jump out at 300 feet, and the Havildar (sergeant) asks if they can jump closer to the ground, but it’s explained to him that any lower than 300ft won’t give their parachutes time to open. “Oh,” replies the Havildar, “so we get parachutes, eh?”"

 

Didn't happen, of course, but a good story.  

 

Here are some true stories:  https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/g2173/10-amazing-gurkha-stories/

 

And then there is Bishnu Shrestha

 

The train company also gave him a lifetime pass.