Hoss Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 my vote would be no. keep rule as it is, shotgun staged open and empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 No-one every got hurt with a spent round in a firearm chamber. So in reality it is NOT a safety issue. So why have a safety penalty for something that is safe??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: No-one every got hurt with a spent round in a firearm chamber. So in reality it is NOT a safety issue. So why have a safety penalty for something that is safe??? At first look, from more than a couple feet away, cant see if its fired or unfired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: No-one every got hurt with a spent round in a firearm chamber. So in reality it is NOT a safety issue. So why have a safety penalty for something that is safe??? Agree with Happy Jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Eye Jim Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I vote no call so long as it is cleared before moving to the unloading table, but then I've had issues with hulls under the extractor on stages that were already a disaster, so the extra time to clear the damn thing just added to misery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High Spade Mikey Wilson Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Open and empty is my vote. You can't tell from 5 feet away if it is a live shell or an empty hull. I've seen many a SxS shooter miss a target and load 2 more rounds to make up the miss and only fire one. If it ain't broke don't try and fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken George* Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I vote "no call". If it is open, it is safe. I always thought it was dumb that you will get called for having spent hulls in the chamber if you set it down, but you can carry it, running around all you want and walk to the unloading table that way. If it was really unsafe it would be bad to be moving with an unsafe gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mountain Wolf Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I have to go with the no call as long as its cleared on the line before heading to ult.. I used to hunt with a shotgun, never did shoot a squirrel with an empty hull in the chamber lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 So a double shooter doesn't even have to attempt to clear the gun. Just shoot it and lay it down closed and move. Fire away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I vote for no call. If the T.O. Can’t see it is a spent primer, then he is to far away. Note—My eye doctor says a normal person with average vision should be able to see the difference between a fired primer and an unfired primer from at least 75 feet. He also says he has never met a normal person with average vision! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Hoss said: At first look, from more than a couple feet away, cant see if its fired or unfired. But you CAN see the shell, right? That means the action is open, right? How's it going to fire with an open action? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Current rules do not require that a shotgun be restaged OPEN...only that they be CLEARED/EMPTY. The issue is whether to eliminate the MSV for failure to clear all empties from the firearm: Quote - Shotguns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointing in a safe direction. If the action closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the CRO/TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the gun prior to opening the action and showing it to be clear. Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Shotguns A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only: - Empty. SHB p.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaver john Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 If the change is made where it doesn't have to be empty when discarded you stand the chance of a MSV if it closes with empties in it. Is it worth the chance? If it closes as the rules stand now and is empty, no call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken George* Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Current rules do not require that a shotgun be restaged OPEN...only that they be CLEARED/EMPTY. The issue is whether to eliminate the MSV for failure to clear all empties from the firearm: Then I would say that it has to be open OR empty for it to be a no call. Closed with spent hulls or open with live shells should get a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 18, 2018 Author Share Posted July 18, 2018 32 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: Current rules do not require that a shotgun be restaged OPEN...only that they be CLEARED/EMPTY. The issue is whether to eliminate the MSV for failure to clear all empties from the firearm: SHB p.15 That’s what I meant, just didn’t say it very well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Thanks for the clarification PWB, that puts things in a whole different perspective. I agree with Chicken George on it, open OR empty. (Although much to Hell's Comin's chagrin, this would still favor SXS shooters a tad.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said: No-one every got hurt with a spent round in a firearm chamber. So in reality it is NOT a safety issue. So why have a safety penalty for something that is safe??? Maybe not, but plenty of people have been shot with guns they THOUGHT were empty. If I need to I can post some examples for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hells Comin Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 47 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: Thanks for the clarification PWB, that puts things in a whole different perspective. I agree with Chicken George on it, open OR empty. (Although much to Hell's Comin's chagrin, this would still favor SXS shooters a tad.) Oh i wondered who it would favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said: Thanks for the clarification PWB, that puts things in a whole different perspective. I agree with Chicken George on it, open OR empty. (Although much to Hell's Comin's chagrin, this would still favor SXS shooters a tad.) and 97 shooters,,, bang,,, throw it down... or 87,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken George* Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 I think the advantage of an SXS would be almost unnoticeable if you still had to open it. I think shooters wouldn't want to set it down without emptying it in case it accidentally closed (penalty) when a quick jerk on the way down would avoid that. Also, most shooters I know that shoot SXS, end with the shotgun whenever possible right now so those stages wouldnt be any different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Leave the rule alone would be my vote, I think if a sXs shooter did not have to open & clear just lay down would be quite a advantage , I'm not sure if that's where this is headed AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 IMHO, the shotgun should be either open with spent shells or empty. Closed with spent shells or open with a live round would be a penalty...P or the MSV. Live round in a closed action SDQ. Something like this if vote for. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 leave it be,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I've seen some pretty interesting situations caused by shooters trying to clear a spent hull in an open action...pointing down range...shotgun. Safety first! Oy... Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokestack SASS#87384 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I wish they would just make it a procedural penalty since it’s not a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: IMHO, the shotgun should be either open with spent shells or empty. Closed with spent shells or open with a live round would be a penalty...P or the MSV. Live round in a closed action SDQ. Something like this if vote for. Phantom Phantom makes a good point. Plus, this would be good for '97 shooters too, as laying the open port down on a fired shell penalty would be negated. An open shotgun and spent shell is not a safety issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutmeg Ryder, SASS # 74966 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Empty, any hull "could" be live, some folks just plain move to fast to take the time to check it. If it closes, then open show clear at the end of the stage, like it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 It definitely is not a safety issue. Where I get frustrated with an empty shell standing up in a 97 is never going to be dangerous. You cannot even close the action. Similarly, if any empty is hanging half way out of a SxS, it would be pretty tough to close that action. Of course, then you would have an empty cartridge in the gun - but that is still not dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 I always ask myself what is the result that folks are hoping for when changing a rule like this. This one is pretty obvious.......it's to avoid a penalty. Personally I am NOT in favor of any rule change that lessens shooters responsibility more than we already have. Fact is my 8 year understands the concept and abides by it when he is on a stage. Sorry but after 17 years and shooting across the country in hundreds of matches at every level I just don't see the heartburn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Marshal Dillon said: My take is open and empty. I joined SASS to shoot awesome antique style firearms with the funniest most amazing people on this planet with only necessary rules. Why did you join SASS??? I joined so I could be 11 again and play Cowboys and Indians . . . and this time with real guns! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Everyone is pointing towards the SXS shooters, but I've seen 97s receive the same penalty for a fired hull. And, what do you do with the 97 shooter that has a rifle cartridge land in the action?? My vote is for no call. If there is a hull there it only takes a second to verify that it's fired. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Barry Sloe said: Everyone is pointing towards the SXS shooters, but I've seen 97s receive the same penalty for a fired hull. And, what do you do with the 97 shooter that has a rifle cartridge land in the action?? My vote is for no call. If there is a hull there it only takes a second to verify that it's fired. BS NOTHING ... That's a NO CALL. Quote Minor Safety Violation (MSV) infractions include: - Leaving empty or live round(s) in a magazine or carrier of the long gun in which it was loaded. SHB p.21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 We have to take some personal responsibility so I'd go with leave the rule the way it is' open & empty ' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Current rules do not require that a shotgun be restaged OPEN...only that they be CLEARED/EMPTY. The issue is whether to eliminate the MSV for failure to clear all empties from the firearm: Quote - Shotguns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointing in a safe direction. If the action closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the CRO/TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the gun prior to opening the action and showing it to be clear. Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Shotguns A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only: - Empty. SHB p.15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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