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End of Trail 2018 TG Meeting

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Minutes of Meeting of Territorial Governors at End of Trail—June 19, 2081


The meeting was called to order by Deuce Stevens at approximately 4:00 p.m..  Among those present were Misty Moonshine, SASS CEO, Judge Roy Bean, Tex and Hipshot.  Deuce  advised that there was no set agenda for the meeting and asked the Territorial Governors present for items they wished to discuss.

Lassiter spoke of a concern with the fact that a shooter given a reshoot for RO interference  is relieved of misses and non-safety penalties even if the shooter incurred the misses and procedural before the RO interference occurred.  He raised the idea of having such pre-interference penalties carry forward to the reshoot score, along, of course, with safety penalties which carry forward under current SASS rules.

Considerable discussion ensued.  J. T. Wild inquired as to the origin of the current rule carrying forward only safety penalties but none present knew that history.  Dragon Hill Dave indicated that the logic of doing so was that even though a reshoot was in order, safety violations need to be penalized.

Some question arose whether there would be any difficulty differentiating misses and Ps occurring before the RO interference from those occurring after.  Cassalong Hopidy suggested that if a rule change were to be made pursuant to Lassiter’s suggestion that it ought also to apply to reshoots granted because of prop or match equipment failures since the logic was the same—that such failures could not have caused a miss or procedural by the shooter occurring before the prop or equipment failure.  The Judge expressed his view that misses and Ps should either always carry forward or not, rather than having some in-between approach. 

The discussion turned to instances in which a shooter having a bad run intentionally contacts the TO, expecting a reshoot and a number of TGs present commented on the appropriate response.  Smokestack pointed out that this should not be treated as RO interference and some offered the view that a Spirit of the Game or MDQ for unsportsmanlike conduct would be in order.  In response to comments suggesting that clubs would not apply such penalties except perhaps in SASS-sanctioned matches, Misty reminded those present that a club’s affiliation with SASS carries with it the obligation to conduct all matches in accordance with SASS rules.  With no apparent consensus among those present, no action was taken with respect to the proposal.

Happy Jack then raised a concern with DNFs being treated as Stage Disqualifications, pointing out that shooters fail to finish stages for any number of reasons, including heat exhaustion, turning an ankle and other causes. His question was whether it would not suffice simply to award the shooter misses for rounds not fired.  Hipshot advised that the current rule was originally offered by Quick Cal and accepted by the TGs of that period, but its history was otherwise not known.  Smokestack mentioned that the question was the subject of a recent SASS Wire thread dealing with a shooter’s loss of glasses during a stage run.  Misty indicated that she had not seen a DNF assessed in situations like those being described by Happy Jack.  The distinction was then offered by Lassiter, elaborated by Cassalong Hopidy, between instances in which a shooter willfully fails to complete a stage though he has guns and functioning ammo available for doing so (DNF applies) and those in which a shooter is unable to complete a stage because of firearm malfunction, lack of ammo (e.g., forgetting to bring shotgun rounds to the stage), or health problems.  Misty advised that the issue would be brought to the attention of the RO Committee for further consideration and invited the TGs to watch the Wire for later developments on this front.

J. T. Wild then renewed a proposal he raised during the Winter Range TG meeting that an Open Category be made available in which a shooter would compete only for the overall winner award.  The rationale offered was that doing so would take some of the top shooters out of the other categories and allow competitors who would typically not win their category the opportunity of doing so.  Lassiter pointed out that current SASS rules allow match directors to offer such an additional category.  Misty expressed the view that the proposal was a 1% matter, dealing with a matter of concern only to a very few SASS members.  There was a discussion of All Around Cowboy categories (in which a competitor shoots some stages Gunfighter style, some Duelist, some Black Powder, etc.) and the point was made that the proposal under consideration would require specific rules to deal with firearms, shooting style and costuming requirements for those shooting in such an Open Category.  There appeared to be little consensus and the matter was deferred without action.

Dragon Hill Dave then suggested that those shooting Frontiersman category be required to shoot a hammered shotgun.  Misty indicated that the matter could be referred to the RO Committee.

Misty then briefly walked the TGs through four matters that have been the subject of recent TG Wire threads, looking for the sentiments of those present:

1.     The first was to eliminate the automatic SDQ penalty for leaving the ULT and coming to the line of engagement with the hammer back on the rifle.  In such instances, the shooter would be directed to point the rifle safely into the back berm and pull the trigger.  If no bullet was fired, the shooter would be directed to finish staging firearms and to complete the stage (No Call).  If a round fired when the shooter pulled the trigger, the shooter would be assessed a SDQ and directed to proceed to the ULT.  This idea met with the approval of the TGs.

2.     The second suggestion was reducing the penalty for showing up at the LT with empties in a revolver from a SDQ on the previous stage to a Minor Safety.  This also appeared to meet with TG approval.

3.    The third idea was to make squibs the subject of progressive penalties in a match—a MSV for the first, SDQ for the second and MDQ for the third.  Some pointed out that shooters would already have misses for unfired rounds associated with a squib.  There did not appear to be any majority sentiment in favor of going forward on this issue at this time.

4.    The last dealt with the recurring issue of a shooter’s starting posture when no stage instructions on point are given.  In particular, the proposal suggested that shooters would be required to have their hands at their side.  Misty pointed out that the current SASS rules dealing with the matter specify a default posture that includes hands at sides.  Hollifer A. Dollar inquired about a recent suggestion that a shooter violates the current SASS default posture rule if he or she looks down at his guns or ammo.  Misty indicated that the SASS rules does NOT prohibit doing that.

There being no further business, this meeting of the Territorial Governors was adjourned at approximately 5:00 p.m.


Respectfully submitted,

Cassalong Hopidy, SASS #39703

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