Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 Link to a good file on the M17/M18 in the file there is a link to a Video on the M17/M18 ( Sig. P320 ). I don't exactly need one because I need a Marlin .444 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted July 13, 2018 Share Posted July 13, 2018 chambered in 9×19mm Parabellum (can be adapted to fire larger calibers like .357 SIG and .40 S&W as well .45 ACP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted July 14, 2018 Author Share Posted July 14, 2018 digging around a bit I found some interesting notes on these "striker fired" pistols from a National Interest essay on the Ruger American pistol -- billed as the pistol the Army should have had: Quote Like most striker-fired pistols, it lacks a manual safety mechanism as standard feature from the Sig article on the P320 Quote The MHS handgun is a variant of the SIG SAUER® P320® pistol and is equipped with an external safety, an integrated MIL-STD-1913 Picatinny rail for the attachment of light and laser systems, self-illuminating night sights to maintain combat effectiveness in all lighting conditions, and is capable of accepting a sound suppressor. the thought that comes to me is: if the pistol has a safety one must (a) release the safety and then (b) pull the trigger -- in order to fire. Two actions. Without the safety -- as seems to be the case for many of these striker fired guns -- just pulling the trigger is enough. Like a DA revolver. Still the idea of an external safety seems like a good idea to me. the trigger on a DA revolver is quite different though: there is noticable travel first while it rotates and locks the cylinder ( some are even hammerless ); then a good trigger will present a little additional resistance indicating it's ready to fire. On my M1911 -- there is no noticable trigger "creep": apply the necessary pressure and it breaks clean as a whistle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted July 15, 2018 Author Share Posted July 15, 2018 Interesting essay on the .357 Sig ctg What happened to .357 Sig? the .357 Sig -- according to the article -- is just a .40S&W necked down to accept the 9mm bullet hmmmmm ????? why would they try to do that? what's wrong with the .40S&W anyway ? there was this, dealing with the Glock Marketing machine Quote When a new handgun cartridge does “make it big”, its success can almost always be tied back to its adoption by law enforcement. That seems to have been Sig’s goal from the beginning, and they did see some success. But they were up against the giant Glock marketing machine, which was in its prime in the 1990s. Glock not only convinced scores of police departments to switch from their beloved All-American steel and wood revolvers to Glock’s new fangled plastic space Euro-guns, they also went back to those same departments a few years later and got them to all upgrade those 9mm Glocks to .40 S&W versions at virtually no additional cost. This is what Sig was up against in the effort to attract business from law enforcement, and it’s no wonder they came up short. "space guns" ? yuk I'm glad the Army likes the Sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Cognizant Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I had a period in the 1990's where I bought a few guns and shot on a few fun leagues, then I took a bit of a break from shooting really regularly as my kids were growing up. A few years back I finally decided to break down and get a concealed carry permit, and something to carry that I could actually conceal. (My handguns at the time were full size 1911's, Ruger Blackhawks, etc) I went to a local range that lets you do a try and buy. You can pay for range time, and shoot as many of the rental handguns as you want during that time, but two at a time. So I shot every 9mm they had. Glocks, H&K, Ruger, Walther, Beretta, Springfield, S&W, Sig, etc. I didn't know too much about the P320 at that time, but that's the one I liked best. I ended up purchasing a full-size P320 that day and ordered the subcompact kit to go along with it. I also figured literally having the same trigger in them wouldn't be a bad thing either. A little while later I decided I wanted a .45 other than my 1911 to keep by the bed. I went through the process again, rented every .45 they had, Glock, H&K, Sig, Springfield, etc. In the end, I got another full-size P320 full size in 45acp. (Note the 45 P320 is not interchangeable with the 9mm/357sig/40S&W) For me, I just shot and handled those better than the other weapons. I probably have about 4K rounds through the 9mm full-size P320 and 1K through the subcompact with zero problems to date, using a variety of brands of ammunition. The aftermarket is just now beginning to make stuff for the P320. I know cost was an issue, and Sig gave the military a sweetheart deal, but I don't think the Army made a bad choice either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 10 hours ago, Rooster Cognizant said: In the end, I got another full-size P320 full size in 45acp. interesting. I think I'll visit the toy store and see what ol' Hogg Hartley thinks about all this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 I bought a Glock 19X, the gun the Army passed on. I really do like it very much. If you go on line you can find article after article about the problems the Army has been having with the Sig P320. Now, I don’t know if they would have had the same issues with the Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted July 16, 2018 Author Share Posted July 16, 2018 6 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said: I bought a Glock 19X, the gun the Army passed on. I really do like it very much. If you go on line you can find article after article about the problems the Army has been having with the Sig P320. Now, I don’t know if they would have had the same issues with the Glock. interesting -- thanks, Pat The Army is working to fix problems with its new handgun after critical DoD report Quote David Bahde, a retired SWAT lieutenant and firearms subject matter expert who has testified in federal court proceedings on firearms issues, provided some context on the scale of the reported problems. “To my knowledge, no small arm fielded by the military has passed from the testing to the issuing phase without issues,” Bahde said. Bahde, who reviewed the four-page DOT&E report, also qualified his responses by saying that to best understand the issues listed, he would have to view the tests in person or through video recordings. Most likely Sig will make sure any issues are resolved. If you read the report it doesn't sound like the sky is falling. the Ruger report -- Ruger American Pistol: The Gun the Army Really Needs over Sig Sauer? seems to think the Army should have selected a Ruger. The Old Sage teaches "The Proof is in the Pudding". I just find it a fun topic to chew on. Maybe no one will ever make a pistol better than the M1911A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Cognizant Posted July 16, 2018 Share Posted July 16, 2018 4 hours ago, Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 said: ... Maybe no one will ever make a pistol better than the M1911A1. Or maybe many already have. I'm a bit of a contrarian most of the time, and especially about the 1911. It's really hard to find a stock govt model (maybe not with this group though). Literally, everyone I know that buys a 1911 goes and starts modifying it right away to make it better and more reliable as if it were not good enough from the factory. Polishing this, deburring that, changing sights, recoil springs & guide rods, etc etc. Then don't even get me started on the costs. That a design over 100 years old can cost 2.5 to 3x a new Glock or M&P Shield, and people still modify them. Or the ones that are "only" $699 are considered the substandard ones where "you get what you pay for". Seriously you can get a whole cowboy lever action rifle, with a lot more money in materials, as many moving parts, for less or the same than many 1911's, and they may be more reliable to boot. Next you have that one big change, the series 80 trigger, which made the weapon about as drop safe as a Glock, but was panned and disregarded by almost the whole 1911 community, so no one uses or wants it. I know people love their 1911's and I love mine too, but to say it hasn't been surpassed in handguns that are: * Easier & lighter to carry * Have more capacity * Are generally more reliable, or at least as reliable * Are less expensive * generally safer * easier to field strip and clean is I don't know what. The 1911 just is heavy enough to tame the round well, and can be had with a very crisp trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 The .357 SIG round ain't just a .40 necked down to accept a .355 (9mm) bullet. Its more like a sup'd up .38 super. I own 2 Sig pistols: P320 and the P229 Legion. BOTH in .357 SIG My personal chronographed load data shows its performance to be every bit equal to a .357 Magnum in a 4" revolver. AND... its VERY accurate. PLUS, the Secret Service carries the SIG P229 in .357 sig caliber. Its a very formidable cartridge. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twelve mile REB Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Rooster Cognizant said: Or maybe many already have. I'm a bit of a contrarian most of the time, and especially about the 1911. It's really hard to find a stock govt model (maybe not with this group though). Literally, everyone I know that buys a 1911 goes and starts modifying it right away to make it better and more reliable as if it were not good enough from the factory. Polishing this, deburring that, changing sights, recoil springs & guide rods, etc etc. Then don't even get me started on the costs. That a design over 100 years old can cost 2.5 to 3x a new Glock or M&P Shield, and people still modify them. Or the ones that are "only" $699 are considered the substandard ones where "you get what you pay for". Seriously you can get a whole cowboy lever action rifle, with a lot more money in materials, as many moving parts, for less or the same than many 1911's, and they may be more reliable to boot. Next you have that one big change, the series 80 trigger, which made the weapon about as drop safe as a Glock, but was panned and disregarded by almost the whole 1911 community, so no one uses or wants it. I know people love their 1911's and I love mine too, but to say it hasn't been surpassed in handguns that are: * Easier & lighter to carry * Have more capacity * Are generally more reliable, or at least as reliable * Are less expensive * generally safer * easier to field strip and clean is I don't know what. The 1911 just is heavy enough to tame the round well, and can be had with a very crisp trigger. Ok, I'll bite. The reason folks buy a basic 1911 and then proceed to exchange parts is to transform it from a one size fits all to a personal weapon. Yes, the design is over 100 years old and it is still the most used platform of the knowledgeable. People modify the others as well. That there are so many parts and people producing them speaks well of the design. The series 80 was a serious error by Colt brought on by gun rags trying to sell more advertising. Its gone now and no one misses it. The 1911 is as drop safe as any other and safer than most. Easier and Lighter to carry : A full sized 1911 is not a lite-weight in any sense of the word. It does carry easily at least for me and has a side benefit of being down right intimidating to bad guys. Which is a combination of size and caliber. Have more capacity: A pistol/revolver is a defensive reactive weapon if you need more than 8-9 shots perhaps you should be trying out track shoes or perhaps even practicing. Subscribing to the idea that if I put enough lead in the air something will run into it generally returns poor results. There are no semi-autos that are as reliable and nothing generally more reliable. Any semi-auto will malfunction if the fool ahold of the handle doesn't match his springs to the load. Or any number of other fool related issues. Expense is a relative matter. Basic 1911's are no more expensive than other basic platforms. As you or I add features the price goes up. However, the basic 1911 has been as good as it gets in terms of getting the job done for the last 107 years. Oh man, safer? Just how is that? A tool with three safeties isn't as safe as one with none. There may be something out there that is easier to clean or field strip. With one pin to push the 1911 isn't very hard. The barrel bushing isn't needed for the take down but does help with the put together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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