Cleaning BP firearms between stages

[Nahiossi]

I shot my first complete black powder match last weekend. It went really well for me in general. the pistol and rifle rounds all went off like they were meant to and the shotgun shells handled the knockdown targets fine.

 

The only problem I had was by the time I got to the fourth and final stage, my rifle, an 1866 yellowboy, refused to cycle it's action. After the stage was over, I was able to clear the magazine and get the action working again. I can only think that the action was gummed up by BP deposits and crud as I also noticed my revolvers were not "revolving" as well as they had at the start of the day.

 

So I seek the expertise of the Wire and would like to hear your suggestions on a simple and quick way to clean the actions between stages.

 

P.S. On cleanup at home, I have no problems with fouling in the barrels themselves and they clean up to a mirror finish with a soaking of Inox, patches and a boresnake. 

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Howdy Nahiossi

                                 What calibers, type of bullets, lube & crimp,   brief description  of your  load [ without giving specifics ] 

Supply this & you will have  all the answers you want. 

 

[Nahiossi]

Powder - Wano FFFG black powder

Calibre - .38 Special for both my Yellowboy and my Uberti Cattlemen.

Projectile - 158 gr BP lubed RNFP from MLC

Primer - Federal Small Pistol

I use a Lee factory crimp die and my OAL is 36.50 mm. The projectile is 18 mm which means that it is crimped at around 10.5 mm (measured from the bullet's base). I don't know about the lube as they come prelubed from MLC.  

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Straight-walled cases are notorious for gumming up a rifle action, as they don't seal as well as bottleneck 44-40s & 38-40s do.

They let lots of blowby go back into the action.

Lubing the action works pretty well

I keep a can of spray oil, usually ballistol or WD-40, in my kit.

Spray the action when it gets gummy & wipe it down with a rag.

Keeps 'em running

--Dawg

[Trooper Ozzy]

Did you completely clean off the metal actions (brake cleaner) then relube with Ballistol prior to shooting the black powder?  You will be happy with the results. 

Think about it being similar to seasoning a cast iron pan. Once you get it lubed, cleaning will be a breeze and I have no problems running 2 days. Deep cleaning with the brake cleaner is only done the first time. After that cut a mixture if 10 to 1 Ballistol and water becomes your cleaning solvent. After cleaning lube with uncut Ballistol and you are ready to go. 

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

34 minutes ago, Nahiossi said:

Powder - Wano FFFG black powder

Calibre - .38 Special for both my Yellowboy and my Uberti Cattlemen.

Projectile - 158 gr BP lubed RNFP from MLC

Primer - Federal Small Pistol

I use a Lee factory crimp die and my OAL is 36.50 mm. The projectile is 18 mm which means that it is crimped at around 10.5 mm (measured from the bullet's base). I don't know about the lube as they come prelubed from MLC.  

Are Long colts bullets BP Lubed or  for smokeless..if the later you may need to put a lube wad between the powder & bullet. When you have lube moisture at the muzzle then generally you will have no problems.As Prairie Dawg said straight wall cases don't perform as well as the bottle necks.

[Nahiossi]

In response to everyone's questions - 

• The projectiles are definitely lubed for BP.
• I think lube moisture at the muzzle is ok as I haven't had any problems with fouling in the barrel from my shooting thus far.
• I didn't completely clean the metal parts with brake cleaner before moving from smokeless to BP but I was using Inox to clean for smokeless powder as well. 

I haven't seen Ballistol for sale in the stores I frequent. I will have to do a bit of googling and see if it is available here and where I can get some.

 

UPDATE: It seems that Bondall has the distribution rights to Ballistol here in Oz. What's even better is that it is stocked in my local hardware store Looks like I am go to Bunnings tomorrow!

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

When I do shoot FCD I shoot a pair of Ruger SS OMV in .38spcl ...Goex ff and 105 gr lubed for BP. I do agree with what Prairie Dawg said too. My rifle is 44WCF that is for sure cleaner inside than my wife's .38spcl that shoots smokeless. I use Frog lube for all of my guns works great and smells better than Balistol. But always carry  Balistol spray with me at a match just in case. One thing that I had done was have the gap opened a bit when I got the pistols knowing they would pretty much be used to only  shoot real BP....that said I run them an entire match with no issues and not having to spray them.

 

Hochbauer

[Sedalia Dave]

The problem was that the Inox lube is not BP compatible. Clean your guns thoroughly, then relube with BP compatible lubricants. 

 

Ballistol is an excellent BP compatible oil. Bore Butter or Mobil 1 synthetic where you would normally use grease.

[Cemetery]

2 hours ago, Nahiossi said:

 

The only problem I had was by the time I got to the fourth and final stage, my rifle, an 1866 yellowboy, refused to cycle it's action. After the stage was over, I was able to clear the magazine and get the action working again. I can only think that the action was gummed up by BP deposits and crud as I also noticed my revolvers were not "revolving" as well as they had at the start of the day.

 

 

With the rifle, sounds like you're getting fouling between the carrier and the frame.  Spray that area with Ballistol to keep it working smoothly.  Maybe even a quick wipe between stages.

 

With the revolver, you getting fouling on the face of the cylinder.  Spray and wipe that area with Ballistol as well.

 

You can also make moosemilk, or weasel piss, as some people call it, I think that's a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water.  Shake before using.  Apply liberally, and wipe off.

 

I've met people who use olive oil, or mineral oil.  One guy I used to see all the time used to swear by mineral oil.

[Warden Callaway]

I've shot black powder guns for over 50 years and never used Ballistol.  Water does the work.  If you cringe at using water,  mix in some Murphy's Oil.  

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Been using 50% Ballistol & water for years. Small spray on the carrier, wipe of excess and work the lever a few time. Ready to go............

[Nahiossi]

7 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

I've shot black powder guns for over 50 years and never used Ballistol.  Water does the work.  If you cringe at using water,  mix in some Murphy's Oil.  

There is a kind of logic to this. As Ballistol was only invented in 1904 for the German Army, I wonder what cleaning products were used in in the 50-60 years prior to that? 

[Kid Rich]

The best solvent for BP fouling is plain water then a little bit of lube. My wife has a 73 she uses for BP shooting and it is fairly tight we were at a match and she told me it was getting "sticky" I dumped a little hot coffee on the carrier and she told me that was the best that rifle ever ran. It removed the fouling but not the lube.

 I shoot nothing but BP, and I have tried a lot of different lubes cleaning methods etc.

kR

PS For lube on my BP guns internally I use Lucas #2 Red and tacky, it's very slick and does not move from where you put it.

[Warden Callaway]

16 minutes ago, Kid Rich said:

hot coffee

 

Maybe hot green Pekeo tea?  

 

Say,  how are those Ruger birdshead 45ACP working for you?

[Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326]

56 minutes ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Been using 50% Ballistol & water for years. Small spray on the carrier, wipe of excess and work the lever a few time. Ready to go............

I use  a slight variation on this when the rifle starts to stick and hang up.  Same with the face of the cylinders on the 6 shooters.  I do it after 3 stages and it will prevent problems.  I use rubbing alchol and Hydrogen peroxide in place of the water.

[Stoney Bottoms, SASS #52760]

I also have a 66 in 44-40.  I use black powder or APP, a sub.  I can shoot an entire match with no problem.  Every few months I take off the side plates and check, but everything has always been clean inside.  The 44-40 seals up and keeps fouling out.

My smoke wagons are a different story.  They are in 38 spc.  From the factory, one is opened up enough to shoot several stages before I need to shoot with Balllistol and wipe in off, but the other one will only shoot one stage and then I have to wipe it off.  I carry a small can of ballistol in my gun cart just for this situatiions.

 

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

I spray a little balistol or a bp compatible lube on the carrier where it meets the chamber every few stages, I can make it 6 stages without a hiccup not doing this but my rifles work better when I do, shot eot with out any issues this year doing this and cleanup is easier. Keeps the bp fouling soft. I shoot .45 colt and 38 special in my 66s and 73 both straight wall, yes I know if I got a 38/40 or 44/40 etc.  I would not get fouling issues but I started sass with my 73 and 14 years later it is still going strong.

Rafe

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I forgot my Ballistol and left it home at one of our monthly shoots. When my 73 started to get sticky after the 4th stage, I just accumulated a little spit in my mouth and let fly....worked great. You don't suppose they did that way back when.....

[Rye Miles #13621]

I got a sure fire cure for these cleaning problems it's called ........................

 

smokeless

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Do you have a product called 'Bore-Butter' in OZ?

If so-Give it a try-Be ''generous'' with it, inside the actions.

OLG

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

4 hours ago, Cemetery said:

 

With the rifle, sounds like you're getting fouling between the carrier and the frame.  Spray that area with Ballistol to keep it working smoothly.  Maybe even a quick wipe between stages.

 

With the revolver, you getting fouling on the face of the cylinder.  Spray and wipe that area with Ballistol as well.

 

You can also make moosemilk, or weasel piss, as some people call it, I think that's a 50/50 mix of Ballistol and water.  Shake before using.  Apply liberally, and wipe off.

 

I've met people who use olive oil, or mineral oil.  One guy I used to see all the time used to swear by mineral oil.

Wipe and slightly lube cylinder hub face and see that some lube gets inside hub for cylinder pin (or put lube on cylinder pin itself).  Residue will get between hub and face of barrel often causing resistance in rotation. Most favored lubes should work for this process.  If still a problem then you may need to cut a  few "wiping marks" across hub face and barrel face.  While cylinder is out, I also like to wipe inside and see that lube is on latch and hand, as well as cylinder notches.

 

[Lead Monger]

If you use Ballistol or olive oil inside and out most of the fouling will not stick and can be wiped away easily. I always have drinking water in my cart, a dribble of water on a sticky carrier and BP fouling will melt. Cycle the lever a few times and wipe the goo off. GTG.

[German Jim]

I use either Murphy's Mix of Moose Milk.  It's cheaper than straight Ballistol and will keep the rifle action working and your revolver cylinders spinning.

[Turkey Creek Red, SASS # 22854]

I have only been shooting BP for about 15 years, but at a match I use Windex multisurface. I has vinegar not ammonia. You spray it on, wipe it off, and you are good to go. I have used to others and prefer this.

[Pee Wee #15785]

I have shot BP for 60 years plus.   I only use water or water with Dawn to clean my guns.  I can do 10 stages without cleaning but I load my own.  I shoot .44 WCF rifles and .36 Colt Second gen Navies.  For lube I use Mobel 1 or TC Bore Butter.  I use big lubed bullets with a card wad and full case of FFFg.  If you are having problems just carry a spray bottle of water and use on the actions and pull a wet bore snake through the bore and you are ready to go.

[Major Crimes]

On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 9:17 PM, Nahiossi said:

In response to everyone's questions - 

• The projectiles are definitely lubed for BP.
• I think lube moisture at the muzzle is ok as I haven't had any problems with fouling in the barrel from my shooting thus far.
• I didn't completely clean the metal parts with brake cleaner before moving from smokeless to BP but I was using Inox to clean for smokeless powder as well. 

I haven't seen Ballistol for sale in the stores I frequent. I will have to do a bit of googling and see if it is available here and where I can get some.

 

UPDATE: It seems that Bondall has the distribution rights to Ballistol here in Oz. What's even better is that it is stocked in my local hardware store Looks like I am go to Bunnings tomorrow!

 

My local Bunnings does it as a special order for me it usually only takes a week or so for it to arrive.

If you want to mix it with water make sure you order the straight Ballistol otherwise it comes as an aerosol.

There are a couple of different can types to.

 

[El Hombre]

I use lanolin spray made by inox. Spray in the lifter and action of the rifle and front and back of cylinders and wipe the excess off. Works for me

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

19 hours ago, Turkey Creek Red, SASS # 22854 said:

I have only been shooting BP for about 15 years, but at a match I use Windex multisurface. I has vinegar not ammonia. You spray it on, wipe it off, and you are good to go. I have used to others and prefer this.

TCR,

I agree to your choice of cleaner, I like to have a bottle on cart for that quick wipe  I mentioned before the lube.  If time permits I also like to run a patch or two sprayed with WwV down barrel of rifle and pistols about every other stage during my "quick clean" procedure.  Perhaps not needed after only two stages but it sure speeds clean-when done for the day. 

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

Does Hornady One Shot work with black powder to keep things moving smoothly during a match? I know it works great with smokeless.

[mean gun mark]

My routine- 125 gr standard lube bullet, 38 full of real black powder. For extra measue i “dip” each round in a crisco, beewax mix prior to loading,. Shoot stage and upon return to guncart i will run 2-3 patchs down the bore..... i respect those who can shoot a whole match and never have to touch their guns.... me i like touching mine, there is plenty of time to do this and still work the possee chores. If you don’t have to leave it to chance,,don’t!

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

Most I ever do at a match is spray down the barrel (whatever you favorite formula is should work).  That should run down the barrel and into the action to keep the lifter moving freely (depending on caliber, maybe).  

Here is my method for cleaning up, on the range, after the match (not a direct answer to your question but you might find somethin’ useful in the video).  

 

 

[Amarillo Rattler]

“Huggies”, or the Ozzie equivalent, are my every other stage cleaner. A wipe on the cylinder face of each revolver, a swipe on the receiver walls (top and bottom) of the ‘73, and a pass through the chambers wrapped around a 12 ga nylon cylinder brush keeps everything smooth for 6 stages.

 

Skip the rifle if shooting bottle neck cartridges. No fouling in my 44-40 receiver after 6 stages.

 

Thick walled SG hulls allow a lot of blow by in the chambers. I now use Fiocchi hulls and have very little blow by after 2 stages.

 

Amarillo Rattler

[Sheriff Langston]

Throw the entire weapon in a bath tub of warm water and Simple Green.  Environmentally friendly and cheap.

 

OK this is just humor.  Really.

 

Sheriff Langston. 

[Riverboat Red, SASS #71733]

On 6/30/2018 at 10:42 AM, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

I forgot my Ballistol and left it home at one of our monthly shoots. When my 73 started to get sticky after the 4th stage, I just accumulated a little spit in my mouth and let fly....worked great. You don't suppose they did that way back when.....

 

I had to do this in the middle of a stage with my old '66 in .45 Colt. Worked for me too! Since changing over to 44-40 I never have problems.

I do keep a little can of Ballistol in my cart for the occasional spritz on my pistols. I think I loan it out more than I use it.

 

At home its water and Frog Lube.