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TO/RO blamed for a shooter breaking 170


Phantom, SASS #54973

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It is getting to be rather harsh around here of late!  I considered the lack of free style presentations to be over the top when I was called for twirling my crossdraw during the draw but c-mon now be reasonable..  Some of us dance to a different and more artistic tune.

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
4 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

That’s a good way to start, but when moving from a long gun to a x-draw, the move isn’t happening (more so when holstering).

 Why not just wear your cross draw so you do not break the 170?  Then no twist is needed

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5 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

That’s a good way to start, but when moving from a long gun to a x-draw, the move isn’t happening (more so when holstering).

Then call it!!

 

And I'll betcha folks aren't calling straight draw folks when they miss their holster while reholstering...oh where are the cries when that happens. Fact is that no twisting is required...but anyway, we can debate this on another thread if you'd like to start it? 

 

Oh, and believe it or not, we non-gunfighters do know how to spot for gunfighters... ;)

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

 Why not just wear your cross draw so you do not break the 170?  Then no twist is needed

Some do that, but not enough for when they holster.

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4 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Then call it!!

 

And I'll betcha folks aren't calling straight draw folks when they miss their holster while reholstering...oh where are the cries when that happens. Fact is that no twisting is required...but anyway, we can debate this on another thread if you'd like to start it? 

 

Oh, and believe it or not, we non-gunfighters do know how to spot for gunfighters... ;)

 

Phantom

LOL...I talk to them when I see it on my posse and have called blatant sweeping.

SHB v22.3, p. 3: During the course of fire, the shooter must be given the ability to draw and holster revolvers from approved/legal holsters.

 

What’s up with the “non-gunfigher” spotting comment? I know plenty of folks who can spot for Gunfighters and even the galloping of double-cockers. Perhaps we should take that offline or continue here to squelch any possible rumors. I’m game. PM me if you want. ; )

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5 minutes ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

LOL...I talk to them when I see it on my posse and have called blatant sweeping.

SHB v22.3, p. 3: During the course of fire, the shooter must be given the ability to draw and holster revolvers from approved/legal holsters.

 

What’s up with the “non-gunfigher” spotting comment? I know plenty of folks who can spot for Gunfighters and even the galloping of double-cockers. Perhaps we should take that offline or continue here to squelch any possible rumors. I’m game. PM me if you want. ; )

Yep...but can't break the 180 while doing so. Sweeping someone isn't a criterial for calling the infraction.

 

Just joking on the GF thing...someone made a comment while we were spotting during the EOT shoot-off...probably wasn't you. ;)

 

Phantom

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5 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yep...but can't break the 180 while doing so. Sweeping someone isn't a criterial for calling the infraction.

 

Just joking on the GF thing...someone made a comment while we were spotting during the EOT shoot-off...probably wasn't you. ;)

 

Phantom

 

5 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yep...but can't break the 180 while doing so. Sweeping someone isn't a criterial for calling the infraction.

 

Just joking on the GF thing...someone made a comment while we were spotting during the EOT shoot-off...probably wasn't you. ;)

 

Phantom

Agree...can’t break the 180 while holstering.

 

There were only 2 GFs that made it to the shoot-off (both double-cockers)...hmm...interesting. ;)

I know what you are talking about regarding the shoot-off; no need to make more of it than what it was. I just wanted someone form my posse that was doing a great job at listening to my gallop splits all week in ensuring they were separate. Really - just having him present put pressure on me to ensure I was continuing to not fire both guns “at the same time.” That’s why I really wanted him up there. Plus, since he has proven good hearing for double-cocking splits, I knew he would have my back if a debate was ensued by those who don’t care for the double-cocking style, even when they are separate; that way I could stay out of the discussion. No offense to others who may have been spotting; just brought insurance to the line; not sure how many spotters there were; seems like a plethora of spotters though.

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On 6/28/2018 at 6:10 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

...forgot to mention that's the most STOOPID reason for nullifying a call I've ever heard.

 

Sounds like the shooter had a friend in headquarters, I have seen it happen.

Blackfoot

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14 hours ago, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said:

It is getting to be rather harsh around here of late!  I considered the lack of free style presentations to be over the top when I was called for twirling my crossdraw during the draw but c-mon now be reasonable..  Some of us dance to a different and more artistic tune.

 

Not to hijack the thread but, could you clarify what you mean here?  What exactly did you do and what did you get called for?

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MDQ if the shooter swept others with a loaded gun.  Period.  Too bad, so sad, sucks to be them.

 

The TO/RO/Spotters should have known?  That is ridiculous. 

 

And no, the shooter was not started in a faulted position.  Even if they were, and a reshoot granted, safety penalties carry over, MDQ.

 

That's the view from my saddle given the information provided.

Grizz

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I've been on "buddy possees".  Strange things can happen.  Like when I was SDQ'd after my run... Picked up my guns to go to the ULT and a spotter decided to climb the stairs to the level above me,  crossed over me, and called that I swept him.  Or clear procedurals get overruled...  Or cross-draw faux pax becomes just a warning...  Not much can be done if others won't back you up.  MD will go with the RO's call.  Especially if not a "popular" shooter.  (My super power is annoying people)

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20 hours ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

... I knew he would have my back if a debate was ensued ... [snip]  No offense to others who may have been spotting; just brought insurance to the line ...

 

I am very curious as to exactly what role your "insurance" would have in a debate if he was not a spotter or the TO.

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2 hours ago, Jackalope said:

 

I am very curious as to exactly what role your "insurance" would have in a debate if he was not a spotter or the TO.

He was a spotter at the shootoff; and just a mental thing for me...nothing more. Next shooter (topic). 

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1 hour ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

He was a spotter at the shootoff; and just a mental thing for me...nothing more. Next shooter (topic). 

Editing...folks should take responsibility for one's words...that's all folks!

 

;)

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Not on the right side...where I was a spotter.

 

Besides, it's real bad form to have a relative spot for ya in a shoot-off.

 

;)

He wasn’t a relative; lives in a completely different State. Don’t go there (bad form to suggest I was cheating). Geez... you’re stepping over the line. Stop making more of what it was. It’s getting really muddy here.

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45 minutes ago, Shamrock Sadie said:

He wasn’t a relative; lives in a completely different State. Don’t go there (bad form to suggest I was cheating). Geez... you’re stepping over the line. Stop making more of what it was. It’s getting really muddy here.

What it was...was...insulting. I'm leaving it at that.

 

Phantom

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On 6/28/2018 at 5:51 PM, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

 

I was surprised...to say the least...that someone could fault the TO/RO.

 

But...the shooter did get a little lesson after the stage. Why someone would blame the TO/RO and spotters is baffling.

 

Phantom

 

SOP these days to holler "but it's not my fault" and then blame it on someone, something, anything but be accountable for your own actions. Hardly the "Cowboy Way" but certainly a sign of the times. 

On the other hand, having been a X-drawer, it is quite easy to clear leather without sweeping anybody and not doing "the dance"! But thems da ruls and if ya wanna play ya gotta dance!

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36 minutes ago, 357wheelgunner said:

SOP these days to holler "but it's not my fault" and then blame it on someone, something, anything but be accountable for your own actions. Hardly the "Cowboy Way" but certainly a sign of the times. 

On the other hand, having been a X-drawer, it is quite easy to clear leather without sweeping anybody and not doing "the dance"! But thems da ruls and if ya wanna play ya gotta dance!

 

No, you don't "gotta dance" if you can draw & reholster without breaking 180°.

 

 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

What I find so disheartening after reading the 53 replies to Phantoms  post is how many are R01/Ro2  and are so clueless . Whenever there is a WTC  the answers by many who are running stages  is alarming.:(  Yet the shooter is expected to listen to them.

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6 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

No, you don't "gotta dance" if you can draw & reholster without breaking 180°.

 

 

 My point exactly, but i got tired of arguing with people who saw me draw without shifting my feet! By the way my "gotta dance" was intended as a tongue in cheek general reference  to having to follow the rules not specifically to doing the 170 foot shuffle dance commonly performed by X-drawers! :P:D

 

By the way where did the 180 come from? I have always been under the impression that was supposed to be 170 degrees, not 180!

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20 minutes ago, 357wheelgunner said:

 My point exactly, but i got tired of arguing with people who saw me draw without shifting my feet! By the way my "gotta dance" was intended as a tongue in cheek general reference  to having to follow the rules not specifically to doing the 170 foot shuffle dance commonly performed by X-drawers! :P:D

 

By the way where did the 180 come from? I have always been under the impression that was supposed to be 170 degrees, not 180!

Check out the manual on holstering and re-holstering.

 

Also, the shooter didn't complain or voice an opinion on the call. It was the club officer/MD/Stage Writer that was on our posse.

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, 357wheelgunner said:

 My point exactly, but i got tired of arguing with people who saw me draw without shifting my feet! By the way my "gotta dance" was intended as a tongue in cheek general reference  to having to follow the rules not specifically to doing the 170 foot shuffle dance commonly performed by X-drawers! :P:D

 

By the way where did the 180 come from? I have always been under the impression that was supposed to be 170 degrees, not 180!

 

Those people should be watching the MUZZLE; not the shooter's feet (or back pockets).
 

Quote

- When drawing a revolver, the muzzle may be oriented into the straight down (180°) as it clears leather; but must then go immediately into the downrange 170° (and vice versa on the return).  These restrictions against breaking the downrange 180° angle apply to all holsters and methods of draw/re-holster.  This allowance applies to all types/styles of holsters, from canted double strong side to cross draw, to shoulder/Huckleberry rigs. 

SHB p.3

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1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Those people should be watching the MUZZLE; not the shooter's feet (or back pockets).
 

SHB p.3

 

Got it! Sometime in the last 18 month that I have been out of the game due to a  couple of ankle surgeries this rule got beautifully clarified. I particularly applaud the graphics in the handbook.

 

Not yours and surely not mine, but some of those back pockets do bear  some carefull watching!:rolleyes:

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