Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 why does everyone try to improve on the M1911 pistol ????? The HK45 Handgun: The Best .45 ACP Firearm on the Planet? the only gun I know of that even make it interesting is the Highpower in .40S&W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I'm not sure how to answer your question. My first thought is "Why wouldn't everyone try to improve upon the 1911?" Don't misunderstand me, I love the 1911 and enjoy shooting it. To call it "iconic" and "the standard by which all others are judged" simply restates the obvious. That doesn't mean flaws can't be found in the different variants though. Where would we be if everyone shrugged their shoulders and said "Eh, that's as good as it gets?" It means we would stagnate, and have quite the boring world. What if John Browning had said "Eh, the 1873 SAA revolver is about as good as it gets. Think I'll stick with rifles?" We wouldn't have the 1911 to compare things to! You may not believe it is possible to improve upon the 1911. Others disagree. What remains true is that there are very few pistols that don't utilize design features invented by John Browning. There is a phrase often attributed to Isaac Newton, about standing on the shoulders of giants. That is, we are able to make the progress we do and move forward based upon the discoveries and works of great thinkers. In the world of firearms, John Browning is the giant. But to not attempt to move forward and better him would be a discredit to him and ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 34 minutes ago, DocWard said: "Why wouldn't everyone try to improve upon the 1911?" hmmmmmm good post seems like hardly a week goes by but what I see someone trying to make a "better .45". or the Army wants a better pistol. so when I came on this particular ad I thought it would make a good Saturday Topic on the SASS Wire how many "new pistols" has the Army looked at in the last 10 years or so -- since they adopted the M9 in place of the 1911 ? seems like they keep searching, digging, and hunting, when the good old 1911 is all a man could need. so, I felt like extolling the virtues of the Good Ol 1911, here on a rainy Sat. AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootin' Shu Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I would walk over a mile of 1911s to get that H&K! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Have a HK usp compac in .45. Outstanding SD weapon. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alpo Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I noticed, near the end of that article, it says, "it's the best NON - 1911 .45". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 I have the HK 45 Expert...Daughter gave it to me as a birthday present a few years back...I enjoy it... Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 The Real Thing: Springfield M1911A1 why would I want the H&K ? this baby does the job. It puzzles me that the Army seems to be always looking for a better pistol. What was so bad about the M9 anyway -- other than the 9mm rd ain't no substitute for the .45. But: the Berretta could be had in .40 S&W -- perhaps the best compromise between control and power to be found in an automatic pistol ctg. hopefully TWB will soon be a regular cat at matches Maybe the Army will look into the .41 Mag I guess some folks think the 10mm is the auto ctg. version of the .41. meh. 10mm ain't all that much more than the .45 -- if any. we had good video demos on that out here recently -- i was surprised. I wuz always told the 10mm was all that and a bag of chips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 Many folks get scared when they see a Condition 1 carry of a 1911. The H&K usp allows double action first shot, or Condition 1 first shot. The H&K also has a decocker and a safety that keeps you from cocking the gun when the safety is activated. The H&K is the only other .45acp I carry, when I do not have my Colt LW Commander on me. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 23, 2018 Author Share Posted June 23, 2018 1 hour ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Many folks get scared when they see a Condition 1 carry of a 1911. interesting I had a chance to try a Para LDA .45 -- on a plate rack. I thought the trigger "staged" beautifully. with a pistol in C1 -- "cocked and locked" you have 2 steps to fire: release the safety, pull the trigger. the thing that's always worried me though is: could the safety get snagged in the clothing and released without intent ? seems like it could. from C3, obviously, one has to jack the slide from this rig the pistol might be OK in C2. But-- it ain't gonna be ready real quick and: btw: the Springfield is STEEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Alpo said: I noticed, near the end of that article, it says, "it's the best NON - 1911 .45". I noticed that too. Wonder if it will still be around in 107 years! JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocWard Posted June 23, 2018 Share Posted June 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 said: hmmmmmm good post seems like hardly a week goes by but what I see someone trying to make a "better .45". or the Army wants a better pistol. so when I came on this particular ad I thought it would make a good Saturday Topic on the SASS Wire how many "new pistols" has the Army looked at in the last 10 years or so -- since they adopted the M9 in place of the 1911 ? seems like they keep searching, digging, and hunting, when the good old 1911 is all a man could need. so, I felt like extolling the virtues of the Good Ol 1911, here on a rainy Sat. AM Well, if it makes you feel any better, I spent a good portion of the day putting rounds downrange out of a Colt 1911. I also shot a couple of 9mm pistols, but I ate up a couple of boxes of ammo with the Colt. You can extol all you wish. I tend to agree, I can't really think of a semi-auto off the top of my head that I enjoy shooting, heck, even just holding, as the 1911. At the risk of sounding more pretentious than usual, it has a certain je ne sais quoi, an intangible something that just feels "right." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 The 1911 will always be my first choice for fun and SD work. Still have the Colt 1911, I carried as an LEO. I'm still above ground, thanks to it. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 11 hours ago, DocWard said: You can extol all you wish. I tend to agree, I can't really think of a semi-auto off the top of my head that I enjoy shooting, heck, even just holding, as the 1911. At the risk of sounding more pretentious than usual, it has a certain je ne sais quoi, an intangible something that just feels "right." thanks it's just a fun topic to chew on. when I came on another article about the Army looking for another new pistol I thought we could have some fun chewing on it. especially bein as Calico ain't been raisn' a ruckus so much here recently maybe she's out to the toy store checkin out new pistols Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 13 hours ago, Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 said: interesting I had a chance to try a Para LDA .45 -- on a plate rack. I thought the trigger "staged" beautifully. with a pistol in C1 -- "cocked and locked" you have 2 steps to fire: release the safety, pull the trigger. the thing that's always worried me though is: could the safety get snagged in the clothing and released without intent ? seems like it could. from C3, obviously, one has to jack the slide from this rig the pistol might be OK in C2. But-- it ain't gonna be ready real quick and: btw: the Springfield is STEEL. I think the Para trigger should be the standard by which others are judged! Several gunsmiths that I've had do work for me tend to agree. Para Ordnance made the greatest improvement to the 1911 by developing the double stack magazine arrangement for it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grampaw Willie, SASS No.26996 Posted June 24, 2018 Author Share Posted June 24, 2018 from an assortment of various reports it seems as many as 12 pistols were considered by the Army with the Modular Handgun Specification (MHS) defining the requirements for the soon to be XM17 MHS handgun: Quote Currently there are twelve bidders for the contract, including the Beretta APX, Ceská Zbrojovka's CZ P-09, FN Herstal's Five-Seven Mk 2, General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems (GDOTS) and Smith & Wesson's M&P polymer handgun; the Glock 17 and 22; and Sig Sauer's P320. An updated version of the M9, the Beretta M9A3, was rejected by the Army and won't be involved in the competition. ( Source: Pop. Mech May 2016 ) Evidently this was then narrowed down to five: Glock 17 H&K .45 Sig P320 S&W M&P FN Herstal 5,7mm ( Source: Task and Purpose June 30 2015) Overall the MHS requirements are a bit different from the 1873 Colt or the M1911. Now we will need two different size pistols -- different size grip panels -- accessory rail, and threaded barrel "has to be more accurate than the M9" -- ????? that's a shooter thing Quote In their statements, Army and Sig officials didn't specify what caliber the new Sig Sauer pistol will be. Sig touts the P320 model product as "modular" and "adaptable," with interchangeable grips, multiple sizes and calibers that can be converted between 9mm, .357SIG and .40S&W. "From calibers, to pistol size, to the grip fit best suited for the shooter, the P320 is the most adaptable pistol available today," the company says in promotional materials. Two sources confirmed to Military.com that Sig submitted to the Army .40-caliber and 9mm pistols for consideration. One source said the Army ultimately selected the 9mm version Source: military.com -- Jan 2017 the earlier essay (Pop Mech) had comment on the caliber: Quote The pistol's caliber is still up in the air. Nine-millimeter and .40 Smith & Wesson appear to be the top contenders, with FN's 5.7-millimeter pistol also in the running, shooting a bullet that hadn't been invented when the M92 was first fielded. The venerable .45 ACP round, used for decades with the M1911A1 pistol, appears to have been disregarded due to the round's perceived heavy recoil. I'm not surprised they stuck with the 9mm; they must have a boat-load of 9mm ammo in their inventory oh well I've wasted enough of my Sunday Morning on this; let the Army figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackwater 53393 Posted June 24, 2018 Share Posted June 24, 2018 And even after all of this, the various “special forces” groups from each branch will STILL employ the 1911 in one from or another, often as not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 I have one of those sig P320's (the base model for the gun the army chose). It feels nice in the hand, but I don't like it cause there's no recoil. It hardly feels like I'm shooting. Mine is 9mm, I wonder if I'd get more recoil from 357 sig or 40 s&w. Those caliber change kits are kind of expensive though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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