Warden Callaway Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I may be the last to know but just reading over on the Marlin Owners forum, people have actually gotten new Marlin 1894C (18.5" round barrel) and CS (20" round barrel) in their grubby little hands. Some have looked at them at gun shows and gun shops. I looked on GB and sure enough, there are some listed. Looks like $650-660 "Buy Now". I've not found any sign of the 1894CB in 38/357. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I wonder if Marlin got their quality control problems fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I wonder if Marlin got their quality control problems fixed. Do you think that they'd risk releasing the gun without taking care of their previous issues? And I believe that the problem(s) was with the old tooling that came from "Marlin". Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 There are at least three topics on the new 1894C and CS over on the Marlin Owners forum in the 1894 section. One has a detailed range test writeup. Impressions are mixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Do you think that they'd risk releasing the gun without taking care of their previous issues? And I believe that the problem(s) was with the old tooling that came from "Marlin". Phantom It's happened before..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: It's happened before..... Release the gun after pulling it for an extended period of time?? When? Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I was referring to releasing the poorly made 1894's after moving the plant to NY. They really damaged the Marlin reputation. I have heard mixed reviews on the Remlin 1894's and was wondering if they have solved the QC problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I was referring to releasing the poorly made 1894's after moving the plant to NY. They really damaged the Marlin reputation. I have heard mixed reviews on the Remlin 1894's and was wondering if they have solved the QC problems. Well I hope so...it would be pretty incompetent to release anything but a quality gun. I can cut them some slack on the original release...what with the tooling issues. Put the blame on the folks that evaluated the purchase of Marlin in the first place. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 If their release of this rifle goes anything like the R51 then just be advised things may be spotty. I truly hope they got it right...but guess what? No one’s gonna know unless someone buys them and reports about it. Be it here or elsewhere. We can speculate until the cows come home. If no one buys them then the product line will be short lived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 The cowboy action shooting community probably won't be standing in line to get the 1894C or SC. Maybe when the CB comes out there will be a few show up at matches. But until the slicker-uppers decide they are worthy of being worked on, there won't be many sold to cowboy action shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: The cowboy action shooting community probably won't be standing in line to get the 1894C or SC. Maybe when the CB comes out there will be a few show up at matches. But until the slicker-uppers decide they are worthy of being worked on, there won't be many sold to cowboy action shooters. I would have a different opinion, in that the price is going to attract new shooters, who aren't signing up just yet for what good, reliable equipment really costs. Sure, those who are savvy about these things will stand back, secure with their guns that cost at least twice as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I hope they fixed the issues because they were real. I think there is a BIG market for a $650 SASS rifle.....if it works as advertised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I would be willing to look one over at SOMEONE ELSE expense..... But remember, even a good Marlin from yesteryear or today, is not a competition type rifle in the manner in which we (Cowboy shooters) use them. So, even a good NEW Marlin might seem sub-par to some of us. I hope 'they' get em right and start producing good rifles. They're taking a big gamble putting these on the market unless they are confident that their issues have been solved. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 The 3 that I looked at in Turners the other day. Would need lots of 'love'....... A big part of the Remmy deal, and the very poor QC. Was the fact the Rem would not hire any of the old Marlin 'crew', who knew how to make the machines run. But-Rem put the guns out there anyway.... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 There are several cowboy gunsmiths who said they wouldn't work on the new Marlins. Maybe they can comment on if they only saw Marlins from Remington made on the old tooling or if they also tried working on new guns made on the new tooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Blaming the tooling is like blaming guns for the murder rate in Chicago. The Marlins (with few exceptions - I've seen some nice 1895 Cowboys) I examined should have never left the factory. There is 1894 44 Magnum in a gunshop we get around to about twice a year. It's a new gun but out in the racks with the used guns. It's been there for years. Same gun. I looked at it the first time and noticed several problems. I opened the action the first time I looked at it and it was like an old corn sheller. The muzzle crown is cut so poorly it's embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 My mention of the old vs the new tooling is that it is the dividing line on the perceived quality change of the Marlin rifles. It's not putting the blame on the tooling only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 I bought a New .44 mag. 94 Marlin , to run with my .44 Colt/.44 Russian/.44 Spl. Open-tops ... I have worked on Marlin Guns of the lever type for 30 Plus years ... I don't KNOW about the New 94s in 357 Mag. so I will not venture an Opinion on them ... Besides the above Stated reason I was also wondering how good/bad the Second release Remington 94s would be .... As received my gun had a 7 pound 9 oz. trigger pull , and would NOT run with any .44 special ammo that works in my Open-Tops, It would cycle factory Remington .44 Mag. lead round nose if run while paying close attention to fully cycling the action ... I could out run the action, and I am not real fast ... When run with speed the third round would almost always try to feed with the nose pointed up ... I worked the Pull weight down to 2 3/4 pounds so the trigger is now OK , I run my 66s with 1 3/4 pound triggers ... I now have a gun that will cycle properly with the above mentioned .44 mag. LRN loads, .44 special rounds loaded with 240 gr. LRNFP ... 220 gr. LRNFP and 240gr. Lead SWC. rounds when mixed up in loading ... Or when loaded with any one type ... It took about 20 hours of work the reach this outcome and $ 35 in parts .... It would be expensive to hire a Smith to reach this outcome but my Smith ( Me ) works cheap on my guns, when there is slack time between paying clients ... Widder , Thanks again for the springs ... Hope to shoot with you one day my campfire has a seat waiting for you ... ' Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Howdy Jabez. Its ALWAYS good to read your comments about gun reviews, etc..... along with input from others like Warden and Lumpy. If I ever make it to your campsite, you can be assured I will occupy that chair, graciously. THANKS. SMOKIN GATER: please allow me to share an 'experience' about these Remington 'THIRD' issue of Marlin 1894's. Here's why I say 'Third Issue'. After the initial problems, Remington took back those 1894's that were returned and they couldn't seem to fix. They (Remington) kept these rifles a little over a year and 'tinkered' with them, thinking they had solved the issues. BUT, instead of releasing them to the public, they decided to sell them to their employees for about $300. This is where I entered into this story. An employee told me that Remington assured their employees that these guns were now "right", and that previous issues had been corrected. Remington wanted to allowed their employees a chance to have these 'corrected' (previously owned) rifles at a great price..... $300. The employee ask me to do the Widdermatic mod on her rifle. I had previous worked on 3 of the 'original' issued Remington Marlins and was not going to work on another. All 3 were horrible. BUT, because she was assured these were "right", I agreed to work on it. I documented 9 QA problems inside that rifle. It was the .38/.357 caliber. The VERY first 2 rounds that I cycled thru it jammed. YEP, the Marlin Jam, caused by bad timing of the carrier ramp. Those yahoos didn't even cycle dummy rounds thru it or they would have experienced the jam problem and yet they sold it to their employee as a 'good' rifle that was now....."Right". I fixed her rifle and actually it turned into a Cowboy competition level rifle. BUT, its the last Marlin I have worked on, mostly due to my retirement and working more on Henry .22 lever rifles. Personally, I consider this 'New' issue of these 1894 rifles in .38/.357 as a 3rd issue. Remington has had numerous chances, AND OFFERS, from top notch Marlin gunsmiths and to my knowledge, they have turned down those offers from 3 of those smiths who have great reputations for their Marlin work. Unless I can see, handle and shoot one of these newly issued 1894's, I can't with a good conscience recommend them to anyone, regardless of price. I must also say that I don't have frequent conversations with all of our best known Cowboy gunsmiths. But I have had a couple of them tell me they have "no Intentions" to work on any Remington made Marlins. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 "I fixed her rifle and actually it turned into a Cowboy competition level rifle. BUT, its the last Marlin I have worked on, mostly due to my retirement and working more on Henry .22 lever rifles. " Widder Hey Widder, There is one on GB that the seller states you worked on. Is this the one you are talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostVaquero Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I have one Remington made marlin. It is the 94 limited with engraving and fancier wood. They were/are only made in 45lc. I use mine for Wild Bunch. It has not had much done to it but it has run without issue 45lc 200 to 230gr and while not totally happy it runs 45 scohfield no jams. It will not run 45 cowboy special, but that was no surprise. Out of the box a little stiff but light years ahead of your first nee second gens. Never had a JM marlin new except an 1895 and that is a different action. Now that being said maybe 3rd gens now better, maybe being a more expensive limited they put a bit more effort in or maybe just gotb the luck of the draw. It is going to take a bunch more in tne hands to know if problems have been worked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I love my Marlins and I have a lot of them! Oldest 2 are from 1904 and all made in CT. The move after Remington bought them was a combination of old codger and tooling , with a little superiority (we know how to make guns in NY) thrown in for good measure. It's not uncommon in a manufacturing facility to have a break in communication between engineering and the shop floor. The people tasked with getting the production targets met do things for expediency. They may alter tooling, mark it with "special instructions" and even make minor changes to parts and not "bother" the engineering folks to update blueprints or otherwise document the changes. Remington left all the old codgers and all the old tooling behind. Basically, they didn't have any tribal knowledge and they didn't take the trail markers to NY. I recall a new shooter with one of those first batch Remlins bringing it to Wonnerful Hubby to "slick it up" for him. It was so bad WH gave it back to him and told him to try and get his money back. It would be good to have Marlins for Cowboy on the market again so I hope they have really figured it out this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 We really don't have to wait for the 1894C, SC or CB to get into some cowboy's hands. The 1894S carbine in 44 Magnum has been back and widely available for several years. They have had the Cowboy in 44 Magnum and 45 Colt for a while now. I wouldn't expect the 357 models to be any better than the ones they are turning out in 44 and 45. The latest rant on Marlins on the Marlin Owners forum is about the awful CNC cut checkering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinpan McGurk Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 cents worth on Remlin rifles...I can't say about the CB Remlins but I have a recent Stainless Guide Gun and it shoots everything that is within SAMMI OAL specs, and puts them into the black without any problem..Fit and finish on the stock are not as good as the old RM Marlins but it is acceptable for a field gun..no issues that I have seen on the metal fit and finish..for the price it does the job TInpan McGurk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Marlins are great, just not new ones. Bought a Mirouko Winchester 73 and save money on asprin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Marshal Morgan. I looked at GB and didn't see it. I saw one from Alabama but it stated it as NEW. Surely a modified rifle wouldn't be advertised as 'New'. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 On 6/19/2018 at 9:20 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said: But remember, even a good Marlin from yesteryear or today, is not a competition type rifle in the manner in which we (Cowboy shooters) use them. So, even a good NEW Marlin might seem sub-par to some of us. +1 I think many of the new shooter's would buy them as a entry level gun because of the low(er) cost and would be happy at least for a while...…maybe forever depending on their shooting goals. At least we might get them hooked...….and then they tend to come up with the money they couldn't manage to find after that...…….lol Then they have the option to have the Marlin fixed up later (if they get the competition bug) and while they would have as much in one as a stock 73 by then but sometimes spreading the money out as you go makes it easier for some to justify. At least they would have another platform to more forward with as an option. If they price it too close to the 73 then that's a death blow IMO. People show up with Henry Big boys and 92's and IMO there are no tricks in the SASS gunsmithing closet if you want to shoot those fast...but people still buy them because the up front cost is attractive...…..with a "good" Marlin at least you have that path to fast if you choose to. Assuming it's affordable AND well made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancho Roy Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 I think the best way to be disenchanted with the whole SASS thing is to show up at your first meet with a "Henry" rifle. And then try to run it ten times without a hick-up. So sad to see this. Of course the peanut gallery will offer lots of encouragement......Like, "You shouldn't have bought a Henry"......"Run it like you stole it"........"You should have bought a $1600 Winchester 73 for your first match"....etc If the new Marlin even runs half as better than a "Henry", it will be a great way to get involved with SASS......And maybe a few gunsmiths will figure out to tune them so the new shooter has a path to better performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 A new shooter came to the Lake County Pistoleros match this past Saturday with a brand new Marlin in 45 Colt. It ran fine for the first couple of stages and then had the “Marlin jam” for the next two stages. He was so disappointed that he was leaving the match, but almost everyone tried to loan him a rifle. He finally relented and used Chance Ramsey’s old 45 Marlin. That one ran great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Howdy Sam. That 'jam' is what annoys me the most on new Marlin 1984's. The timing on a Marlin can be set to run a wide variety of OAL cartridges. If the carriers were made correct from the factory, just about any OAL that the shooter wants to use should run in them, respective of their particular caliber. BUT, I honestly don't think 'they' know anything about how that timing works, in respect to the ramp on the bottom of the carrier. Heck, they can't seem to get one timed for a standard cartridge like the .45 Colt. So how can we expect them to understand how to set one up for .44 Spl/.44 Mag and be reliable. AND..... I ain't so sure they understand much about the timing relationship between the lever and carrier plunger stud during the upward stroke of the lever. The 1st 'Remlin' I handled was new and the lever had been 'scalloped' back to the front of the snail cam. In other words, the carrier would not pivot upwards while closing the lever because the lever had been drastically cut on. YES, I talked (via 2 emails) with one of the department heads about these situations and nothing seem to change. I wish them success with this new issue. It will help keep parts availability for many of us who use Marlins. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 One of the reasons I will no longer work on Remlins, is the fact the 'machine' work is a joke. I have also seen several with excessive headspace and loose fitting barrel. Remmy shot themownselves in the foot here(again). Just like they did with the M-700 trigger issues, many years ago. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Rancho Roy said: I think the best way to be disenchanted with the whole SASS thing is to show up at your first meet with a "Henry" rifle. And then try to run it ten times without a hick-up. So sad to see this. Of course the peanut gallery will offer lots of encouragement......Like, "You shouldn't have bought a Henry"......"Run it like you stole it"........"You should have bought a $1600 Winchester 73 for your first match"....etc If the new Marlin even runs half as better than a "Henry", it will be a great way to get involved with SASS......And maybe a few gunsmiths will figure out to tune them so the new shooter has a path to better performance. While it would not be practical to reload a tube loader Henry on the clock in under 5 seconds, one of our match's newest shooters has a 38/357 steel, stock, that shoots 38 Special well at his speed, no hiccups, store-bought ammo. While I might not suggest buying one, I am not seeing cause for condemning all of them. I have a 45 Colt Big Boy Brass that works well but I have never used it in SASS, since I have preferred options, including a Remlin 44 that works just fine as a backup gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Rancho Roy said: Of course the peanut gallery will offer lots of encouragement......Like, " Run it like you stole it"..... Guess I'm the 'peanut gallery' Been surrounded by nutz, all my life....... I firmly believe in, 'run it like you stole it'. Especially in JMB designed lever and pump guns. Carry on- OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Chance Morgun Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 11 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said: Marshal Morgan. I looked at GB and didn't see it. I saw one from Alabama but it stated it as NEW. Surely a modified rifle wouldn't be advertised as 'New'. ..........Widder https://www.gunbroker.com/item/771343308 Read Item description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Thanks Marshal. I've done a few rifles from folks down in Texas, but they all used their SASS alias and I don't recall anyone name Lindsey. Anyhow, I do know the owners of the 4 'Remlins' I worked on, and this is not one of them. Two were in TN and two were in NC. If I knew the serial number, I could probably verify with my records. Thats about the only way I would know without actually looking at the rifle. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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