Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Now that my son ran into a rattlesnake he is pushing for being allowed to carry a gun for when he is out in the woods. He has carried a 22 with shot shells before but his mom is opposed to it. I keep trying to tell her that even if he had an accident with a 22 using shot shell he would not die. Would a 22 long rifle shot shell kill a 5 foot long rattlesnake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I cant say for sure but it sure beats smacking the blamed thing with a tennis shoe!! Imis chipmunk rifle- stand off and tighter pattern than hand gun also less legal issues than a pre 21 having a pistol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Probably not. #9 to #12 shot doesn't penetrate well. Blind it maybe. He would need to be less than about 5 feet to have any real # of pellets on target with enough energy. A nice .410 shotgun on a sling maybe? All just my opinion of course. I have shot .22 birdshot and was less than thrilled. OK, it sucked. Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Mike, In my experience (and I've killed WAY more buzztails than I'd like to think about; six so far this year), the .22 LR shotshells just BARELY get the job done and here's why. Their 31 grain shot charge of #12 (in the CCI version) amounts to about 1/14 of an ounce of shot...and that ain't much to begin with. Since the rotation of the shot charge makes patterns go to heck very rapidly, distance to target is CRITICAL. I'm talking 5-6 feet for best results. The problem with THAT approach lies in the fact that very few folks want to be that close to five feet of rattler! The .22 WMR shot load is better by far...but still not a great answer. I carry (daily) one of my Ruger .45s with the first two chambers with shot loads...that cools 'em off in a hurry from 6-8 feet. Best answer for the youngster? I'd buy him a .410 and never think twice...the 2 1/2" load with 1/2 ounce of 9s are snake shredders. Just my opinion...and maybe worth what you paid for it! "Ad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 i imagine if he had an accident with #9 load in a 410 he would not likely kill himself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 NO-You would have to be to close to it. A .38 with Speer shot loads would be a good choice here. How old is this young man? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said: i imagine if he had an accident with #9 load in a 410 he would not likely kill himself? Don't bet on that! OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catlow4697 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Two rounds of 38 shot shells into 4ft diamondback rattlesnake fron four to five feet . Yes it was going to die but the shovel did it in best.. that is why I bought the s&w governor carried with six 410 ga 21/2 shots hells with 4 shot this makes me feel better walkin around the yard or going to the mail box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Said soon 13 in the other post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Mike, I wouldn't take that bet...no way, no how. In my opinion, ANY shotgun is lethal at "accident" range. "Ad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 i also believe in the governor, just not for him, much to his dismay. a cheap 38 with shot shells did cross my mind but am afraid he could hurt himself. he asked for a taurus 410 pistol ( a judge) but i said no to that as well. he will be 13 mid month. I bought a $100 410 single shot a while back and I have a sling from cabelas that fits any rifle without swivels. maybe his mom would go for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 That .410 single is JUST the ticket...for the snakes. Now the hard part: getting Mom to play along! Congrats on his snake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 7 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said: i also believe in the governor, just not for him, much to his dismay. a cheap 38 with shot shells did cross my mind but am afraid he could hurt himself. he asked for a taurus 410 pistol ( a judge) but i said no to that as well. he will be 13 mid month. I bought a $100 410 single shot a while back and I have a sling from cabelas that fits any rifle without swivels. maybe his mom would go for that. You must understand-He can kill hisownself, with any type of firearm. Put him through a NRA safety course, ASAP. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I'd take a single-shot .410 over a 6-shot .22LR, against snakes, any and every day. As for allowing a child/young adult to carry: Either a person can physically handle a particular gun, or they can't. Either a person is morally, ethically and responsible enough to carry a gun, or they aren't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 If you don't have sufficient firepower to do the job. (A 22LR will kill one just fine) Pistol shot shells have too small a shot and an inconsistent pattern. Back off and go get someone that does or leave the thing alone. A 410 with #9 or larger shot will do the job fine but it does it like most shotguns, with quantity. That being said. The larger the shot the better on anything you aren't going to eat. In my youth we use to catch Eastern Diamondback snakes on McDill Air Force Base. They are to be respected at all times. Even when they are dead. Give them distance and leave them alone if you can. Copperheads and Water Moccasins are also indigenous to your area as well as many varieties of "good" snakes. Your son should be knowledgeable enough to know which is which and still leave them ALL alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 i have watched him with a hunting rifle and he seems responsible to me. i rarely have to correct a safety issue. i have let him go into the woods alone with me nearby with a 22 to hunt squirrels and he did not just shoot up the neighborhood. i hound him about making sure no one is near the front of the muzzle. my wife's hesitation is a friend had a child take pills and so now she fears he will use it on himself. she forgets the child that did that never left their room and had depressed friends my son has outgrowing friends and he spends the majority of his day outside in the sun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said: i have watched him with a hunting rifle and he seems responsible to me. i rarely have to correct a safety issue. i have let him go into the woods alone with me nearby with a 22 to hunt squirrels and he did not just shoot up the neighborhood. i hound him about making sure no one is near the front of the muzzle. my wife's hesitation is a friend had a child take pills and so now she fears he will use it on himself. she forgets the child that did that never left their room and had depressed friends my son has outgrowing friends and he spends the majority of his day outside in the sun I started hunting in Virginia at age 11. I spent every available hour in the woods and carried a single shot 22 that I bought for $5.00 and a 16 gauge JC Higgins bolt action shotgun that I paid $10.00 for. (Money made from picking Strawberries, potatoes, tomatoes, and such. I had to buy my own ammunition. 22s were a penny each or .35 cents a box. Shotgun shells were $.10 ea or $$2.00 a box. Never once thought about shooting myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 my dad was the same. he bought his own bolt action 20 gauge for hunting for food for the family at age 12. oddly he would not buy me one claiming he was worried i would shoot him. makes me wonder why i never met his father. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grass Range #51406 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Let him carry a hoe as a walking stick-quite effective! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 i like the idea of a hoe but the hoe was the exact same length as the snake, which means for this one being coiled and ready I'm not sure even i would want to try a hoe. he mentioned a 45.70 but we decided that was too much gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Eye Jim Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 59 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: You must understand-He can kill hisownself, with any type of firearm. Put him through a NRA safety course, ASAP. OLG +100 on This I was hunting pheasants with a .410 gage pump and a dog at his age after school in our alfalfa fields. Switched to a 12 o/u the next fall when my brother joined me at age 11 after passing his NRA safety course that fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adolph Vancinghand, SASS #28923 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Trigger Mike said: i like the idea of a hoe but the hoe was the exact same length as the snake, which means for this one being coiled and ready I'm not sure even i would want to try a hoe. he mentioned a 45.70 but we decided that was too much gun. Man, I like this young man and ain't even met him! I always believed that anything worth doing was worth OVER-doing! I started to suggest a hoe as well but, again, not many want to get that close. Good rule of thumb is striking distance is 1/2 to 2/3 of body length (but my experience raises an eyebrow at the 2/3s number). The problem with ALL that foolishness is getting an accurate length estimate while he's buzzing at you! To paraphrase Tuco from "The Good, The Bad and the Ugly"..."When you gotta shoot, shoot...don't talk". Or measure! "Ad" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Kit Cool Gun Garth Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 If it was me, and I was armed....he'd be a DEAD snake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigger Mike Posted June 5, 2018 Author Share Posted June 5, 2018 he killed it for the $15 , they have a bounty on their head around here, plus it was near the tree house my daughter likes to hang out in. We use the "he needed killing" defense when it come to rattlers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 If you are too close for a hoe-you don't have time to pull a gun. If the hoe doesn't reach, the snake should be allowed to go along it's merry way. Just a good walking staff (shoulder height) is enough to chase off most snakes and other predators Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Let ol' No Shoulders Jake live unless it's absolutely necessary to kill the snake. If your son is close enough for .22 rat shot, you're son is too close. Is you're far enough away for something else, just back away and call for someone qualified to remove the snake and release it somewhere else. Since moving to Arizona, the most rattlesnake infested state in the USA, we've had two rattler's removed from around our house and my next door neighbor one. Trigger Mike, ol' Jake is just doing what God ordained him to be. Oh, and if you do have to kill the snake; eat it. Not bad....tastes like chicken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Trigger Mike said: i like the idea of a hoe but the hoe was the exact same length as the snake, which means for this one being coiled and ready I'm not sure even i would want to try a hoe. he mentioned a 45.70 but we decided that was too much gun. Make a heck of a shotshell out of a 45-70 i would imagine. Bet I could Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoky Pistols Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I'll probably catch all kinds of hell for this, but if you're looking at getting him a single shot pistol in 22, you can do the same amount of damage from that range with a pellet gun. I think if he's intent on killing it, the .410 is the way to go. And if you don't like the JUDGE for a pistol, take a look at the Thunder Five, a smaller Mil-spec version of it. It's a fun little gun to shoot and would do the job in .410. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I was a rattlesnake hunter while living in Chino Valley, Arizona years ago. My gift to my groomsmen were rattlesnake belt buckles. I traded the local Singer dealer rattlesnake items for a new sewing machine for my wife. The CCI .22 shotshells were my round of choice. Occasionally I used the .38/.357 shotshells. That being said, I always hit them in the head. Generally, I carried my Ruger Mark II. If I was going to a den site I carried it and my Ruger 10-22, just in case I needed more firepower. (Yes, I had to manually cycle the action on both.) But, while brain-dead, the snake's body continues to twist about and a person can still get bit. My next move after a head shot was to step on the head and cut it off and take the body with me. In hundreds of rattlesnakes, I never had an issue. However, I did come upon one that someone else had shot and left in the middle of the dirt road I frequented while snake hunting. A .44 magnum shell was lying next to it and a large portion of its midsection was missing, but the snake was still coiled, still alive, and still trying to strike at me. It would have died eventually. My .22 shotshell to the head did what the .44 magnum didn't. Keep in mind, rattlesnakes can regulate how much venom they inject and they try not to waste it as it takes time to produce more. They don't use it unless it's necessary. In most cases, the bite is "dry" because they just want you to go away and leave them alone. It's when someone starts messing with the snake that they get agitated and start injecting venom. Most likely, if you live in rattlesnake country, you have walked passed rattlesnakes and didn't even know it because you're not their intended prey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said: Oh, and if you do have to kill the snake; eat it. Not bad....tastes like chicken. While living in Arizona, I had friends that loved to keep rattlesnakes frozen for when they had out of state guests. Then, when their dude guests got up for breakfast, they made a show of plopping the entire rattlesnake down in the frying pan to see what type of reaction they would get. It seemed a waste because every four inches of skin was worth $20 to me. There was a restaurant in Wikiup that had snake and eggs on the menu back in the early 90s. At that time they had a yearly rattlesnake round up and the restaurant used the carcasses. They also carried my rattlesnake items. (Belt buckles, belts, hatbands, wallets) Ah, the good ole days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 I've told this lie before, but still, it's my favorite rattlesnake story. When I was a teenager (and much quicker than I am today), I was out chopping cotton in Oklahoma. While out in the cotton field and hacking at those weeds, a big 'ol Diamondback struck at me. I was fast enough to whack that snake away from me with the hoe I was using. But, the snake's fangs sunk into the hoe handle, and that snake was so poisonous it caused that hoe handle to swell up so much that I had enough lumber to build myself a chicken coop. That's right! Only problem was, when the swelling went down....well, it killed all my chickens!! ....Yep, squished them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Riot Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 Mike, if your son is competent enough for a .22 he’s competent enough for a .38, but only after taking a safety course...and not “Dad’s safety course”. Kids will listen to Dad but they will do better in a more formal setting with a certified instructor. I would consider the course regardless. The boy likes to shoot. Get him trained up right. Regardless of the gun. Handgun or long gun. A .22 can be just as deadly in an accident as any other gun in the wrong situation. Google “after effects of snake bite” and then click on images. Show those pictures to your son and your wife. He won’t go picking fights with snakes and she might be more apt to let your son have something for snake protection. By the way, try tangling with a copperhead or a moccasin with a hoe. You’ll get a gun pretty quick...or in my case a shotgun and a cinder block. You don’t out snake a snake with a hoe. Especially a big one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967 Posted June 6, 2018 Share Posted June 6, 2018 6 hours ago, Trigger Mike said: i imagine if he had an accident with #9 load in a 410 he would not likely kill himself? 6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: Don't bet on that! OLG My godson spent over a month in the hospital after an AD with a .410... definitely treat them with respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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