WTC

[Hoss]

Shooter comes to line with 97 action closed, hammer down. As he is staging it I notice, have hm open action. Shotgun is empty. Hammer was definitely fully down.

 

Rule book says shotguns are staged open & empty.

Rule book also says shotgun are safe to move with hammer fully down on expended round or empty chamber

 

Safety & Handling Conventions – Shotguns - Shotguns are always staged open and empty and are loaded on the clock unless the stage begins with the shotgun in the shooter’s hands. - Mule eared shotguns can be cocked at the beginning of a scenario, whether staged or in the shooters hands. - Shotgun targets may be re-engaged until down, unless otherwise specified by the stage description. - Shotgun shells may be removed without penalty to return the firearm to a safe condition. - Shotguns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointing in a safe direction. If the action closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the CRO/TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the gun prior to opening the action and showing it to be clear. Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Shotguns A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only: - Empty. A shotgun is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage in the following condition only: - Action open, round in chamber or on carrier. - Hammer(s) fully down on an empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed.  

 

 

After discussion, it was decided a no-call.  did I get it right? 

 

 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

 

After discussion, it was decided a no-call.  did I get it right? 

 

Nope.......

Thank you PWB.

I was wrong, and I'm SORRY! 

Had rifle in my pea-brain. 

Why it's ok with the one long-gun and not the other, is a bad idea, IMHO....

The rule should be the same for both...

Respectfully,

OLG

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

I can't find the link. However, PaleWolf made the following clarification, for SASS matches, when the shooter comes to the Line with a closed, cocked SG.

LOADED = SDQ

UNLOADED = NO CALL...open action & stage

 

 

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

56 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Nope.......

OLG

Oh Well....that only makes twice in fifteen years, and later we decided the first one was correct

Failure to adhere to loading and unloading procedures

.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

54 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Shooter comes to line with 97 action closed, hammer down. As he is staging it I notice, have hm open action. Shotgun is empty. Hammer was definitely fully down.

 

Rule book says shotguns are staged open & empty.

Rule book also says shotgun are safe to move with hammer fully down on expended round or empty chamber

 

After discussion, it was decided a no-call.  did I get it right? 

 

YES...NO CALL.

[Eyesa Horg]

1 hour ago, Hoss said:

Shooter comes to line with 97 action closed, hammer down. As he is staging it I notice, have hm open action. Shotgun is empty. Hammer was definitely fully down.

 

Rule book says shotguns are staged open & empty.

Rule book also says shotgun are safe to move with hammer fully down on expended round or empty chamber

 

Safety & Handling Conventions – Shotguns - Shotguns are always staged open and empty and are loaded on the clock unless the stage begins with the shotgun in the shooter’s hands. - Mule eared shotguns can be cocked at the beginning of a scenario, whether staged or in the shooters hands. - Shotgun targets may be re-engaged until down, unless otherwise specified by the stage description. - Shotgun shells may be removed without penalty to return the firearm to a safe condition. - Shotguns will be cleared and discarded with their barrels pointing in a safe direction. If the action closes after being cleared, the shooter will, at the conclusion of the stage, show it to be clear to the CRO/TO. No person other than the competitor may handle the gun prior to opening the action and showing it to be clear. Safe Conditions During a Course of Fire – Shotguns A shotgun is considered SAFE to leave the shooter’s hands in the following condition only: - Empty. A shotgun is considered SAFE for movement (in hand, while moving through a stage in the following condition only: - Action open, round in chamber or on carrier. - Hammer(s) fully down on an empty chamber(s) or expended round(s), action closed.  

 

 

After discussion, it was decided a no-call.  did I get it right? 

 

 

 

 

The last sentence appears to me to make it OK & a "No Call"Dang this site is slow today.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

4 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

YES...NO CALL.

Huh?? I thought that applied only during a course of fire, that's the heading for that section.

[Captain Bill Burt]

28 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

I can't find the link. However, PaleWolf made the following clarification, for SASS matches, when the shooter comes to the Line with a closed, cocked SG.

LOADED = SDQ

UNLOADED = NO CALL...open action & stage

 

 

That's odd.  If you come to the stage with a cocked rifle it's a SDQ at the least and a MDQ if there's a round in the chamber.  It's interesting that coming to the line with a cocked SG with the action closed would be a no call.  I guess the reasoning would be that we don't typically stoke a SG at the loading table whereas we know the rifle is loaded?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

19 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

That's odd.  If you come to the stage with a cocked rifle it's a SDQ at the least and a MDQ if there's a round in the chamber.  It's interesting that coming to the line with a cocked SG with the action closed would be a no call.  I guess the reasoning would be that we don't typically stoke a SG at the loading table whereas we know the rifle is loaded?

 

The SG in the OP wasn't cocked; nor was it loaded...even if it was cocked with the action closed, there is no violation (as long as it is EMPTY).

Same as if a SxS happened to close before or while bringing it from the LT to the stage...just OPEN it to stage it properly.

 

Movement from the LT to the stage with a cocked & LOADED firearm is a SDQ.

 

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

13 minutes ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

Huh?? I thought that applied only during a course of fire, that's the heading for that section.

 

That section DOES refer to movement during a stage; but it doesn't mean that it is exclusive to that situation.

 

[Captain Bill Burt]

32 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

The SG in the OP wasn't cocked; nor was it loaded...even if it was cocked with the action closed, there is no violation (as long as it is EMPTY).

Same as if a SxS happened to close before or while bringing it from the LT to the stage...just OPEN it to stage it properly.

 

Movement from the LT to the stage with a cocked & LOADED firearm is a SDQ.

 

 

 

I understand.  When I said it was odd I wasn't referring to the OP call, I was referring to Allie's comment about coming to the line with a cocked shotgun, action closed being a no call.  Since it is a long gun as a rifle is, I was hypothesizing that the reason one gives you a SDQ and the other doesn't is that we don't stoke the shotgun at the LT.

 

Does that make sense or have I lost my mind (I guess both could be true)?

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

CBB-Of everydangthing I've lost in my life-I miss my mind the most. 

OLG

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

13 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I understand.  When I said it was odd I wasn't referring to the OP call, I was referring to Allie's comment about coming to the line with a cocked shotgun, action closed being a no call.  Since it is a long gun as a rifle is, I was hypothesizing that the reason one gives you a SDQ and the other doesn't is that we don't stoke the shotgun at the LT.

 

Does that make sense or have I lost my mind (I guess both could be true)?

 

Yes...that IS the reason.

(as far as losing one's mind, the "drag time" on the Wire today is workin' on my own sanity...what little there might be left!)