Making a Ruger like a Colt

[Barbwire Bill, SASS #661]

I know several gunsmiths can set up a Ruger without a transfer bar, but does this modification disconnect the loading gate feature so you can load on half cock vs having the hammer down and using the loading gate to free the cylinder?  

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

7 minutes ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said:

I know several gunsmiths can set up a Ruger without a transfer bar, but does this modification disconnect the loading gate feature so you can load on half cock vs having the hammer down and using the loading gate to free the cylinder?  

Once the transfer bar is removed and the hammer built up, you have to have 1/2 cock so the firing pin is not pushing through otherwise the cartridge will hit it and you can’t turn the cylinder. 

 

Randy

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I can't speak for every Ruger mod, but I have 2 sets that have been set up by 2 different reputable gunsmiths and they both work the same:

 

The cylinders will spin when on 1/2 cock and loading gate closed.

The cylinders will spin when hammer is fully down and loading gate is open.

 

..........Widder

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

4 minutes ago, Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 said:

Once the transfer bar is removed and the hammer built up, you have to have 1/2 cock so the firing pin is not pushing through otherwise the cartridge will hit it and you can’t turn the cylinder. 

 

Randy

 

And..... the loading gate has to be open to load the cylinder.

BUT..... the loading gate can be close and still have a free spinning cylinder.

 

..........Widder

 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Why?  Nuthin wrong with the way Rugers are set up with the transfer bar. I have been shooting a pair of NM Vaqueros for over 10 years ( .45 & all BP loads) and never had a problem.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

36 minutes ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Why?  Nuthin wrong with the way Rugers are set up with the transfer bar. I have been shooting a pair of NM Vaqueros for over 10 years ( .45 & all BP loads) and never had a problem.

Transfer Bars break... So... There is something wrong with the way Rugers are set up.

 

Phantom

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Transfer Bars break... So... There is something wrong with the way Rugers are set up.

 

Phantom

OHMYGOD!  THE SKY IS FALLING!  Someone admitted Rugers break!  

[Pat Riot]

Rugers do break...but not very often. Why mess with perfection...Well, maybe not perfection....How about "The Best"!

 

That is my opinion.

 

 

 

[McCandless]

1 hour ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said:

I know several gunsmiths can set up a Ruger without a transfer bar, but does this modification disconnect the loading gate feature so you can load on half cock vs having the hammer down and using the loading gate to free the cylinder?  

I have a pair of original unconverted blackhawks.  They never had a Transfer Bar, 4-click perfection, without leaving the Ruger Drag Line on the cylinder. 

Our gunsmiths are putting the Rugers back as close as they can to the original design, with the addition of a shorter hammer stroke.

Those talented folks that can do it are geniuses!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Ruger t'bars do break. 

You can get a excellent half-cock kit here.

http://powercustom.com/store/

OLG

 

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

Everything eventually can break, but I'll keep popping primers with mine until something happens....or I get too damn old to hold them up. (probably happen before the pistols break...LOL).

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I had a couple transfer bars break in 2 Ruger Vaqs.

 

One broke at approx 275,000 cycles and the other at 350,000 cycles.   

 

This was important to me because I was trying to run new GF speed records when it happened.

 

All my Rugers now have the transfer bars removed, basically for that reason.

 

But I do have another Ruger (Super BlackHawk Hunter in .45 Colt) that has the factory transfer bar.

 

Mileage varies.

 

..........Widder

 

[Barbwire Bill, SASS #661]

I'm not so concerned about the transfer bar breaking as it can be replaced pretty easy.  But I think that drag line might be averted if you loaded and unloaded with the half cock and not the loading gate holding the bolt back.

Any thoughts?

[McCandless]

34 minutes ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said:

I'm not so concerned about the transfer bar breaking as it can be replaced pretty easy.  But I think that drag line might be averted if you loaded and unloaded with the half cock and not the loading gate holding the bolt back.

Any thoughts?

 

Now you had me opening the safe to check.  Of course, the original unconverted Blackhawks don't have a drag-line.  But, I had to go look at my others that have been short stroked, and transfer bars removed...  no drag lines on one pair, some drag line on the other, but they were "box stock" with lightened springs for awhile, so can't tell much from that.  I guess it all depends on the gunsmith.  Some can fine tune and time so the bolt drops at just the right time, and others might not.   You'd really have to poll folks who have had work done by different smiths, asking about that one particular question.  I'd never paid much attention to that before.  There are a goodly number of reputable smiths around the country doing the work.  I would start with the ones nearest you, and you'd get the most feedback about them, first.

 

*edit.  Oh heck, I remember you!  You're in California.  There have got to be good Cowboy Smiths in California, SASS was born there!

 

[Sedalia Dave]

Boomstick Jay does a nice conversion of removing the transfer bar, short stroke, and 1/2 cock notch.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Maybe this is a really dumb question, but how much money does it typically cost to turn a ruger into a colt? I am just wondering if there is a point where it cost enough for someone to say why not just get a colt instead of turning a ruger into one.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

4 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Maybe this is a really dumb question, but how much money does it typically cost to turn a ruger into a colt? I am just wondering if there is a point where it cost enough for someone to say why not just get a colt instead of turning a ruger into one.

Heck of a lot easier(cheaper too-AKA free)to get parts from Ruger, than it is from Colt-BTDT. 

1/2 cock conversion is about $180.00, and can be installed yourownself.

T'bar removal-There again, it depends on how much you can do yourownself.

We still have the t'bars in ours.

OLG

[Shooting Bull]

5 hours ago, Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life said:

Why?  Nuthin wrong with the way Rugers are set up with the transfer bar. I have been shooting a pair of NM Vaqueros for over 10 years ( .45 & all BP loads) and never had a problem.

 

Because it’s my money and that’s how I want to spend it. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

1 minute ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Because it’s my money and that’s how I want to spend it. 

 ONLY after you get SWMBO's permission. 

OLG

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

20 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Maybe this is a really dumb question, but how much money does it typically cost to turn a ruger into a colt? I am just wondering if there is a point where it cost enough for someone to say why not just get a colt instead of turning a ruger into one.

All depends on how much you want done to them.  I already had Super Blackhawk hammers, plus the smith was only a twenty mile drive, so mine cost $225 each.

[Shooting Bull]

16 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 ONLY after you get SWMBO's permission. 

OLG

 

Excellent point. I probably should have said, because it’s SWMBO’s money and that’s how she lets me spend it. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

4 hours ago, Barbwire Bill, SASS #661 said:

I'm not so concerned about the transfer bar breaking as it can be replaced pretty easy.  But I think that drag line might be averted if you loaded and unloaded with the half cock and not the loading gate holding the bolt back.

Any thoughts?

 

Barbwire Bill,

I may be wrong (it would be Shooting Bull's fault), but the drag line isn't caused by the loading gate or hammer cocking but rather the timing of the bolt in relationship to the hammer cocking.   Even some short stroked pistol can have the drag line, with or without any 1/2 cock notch.

 

Your best bet is to contact one of our excellent SASS pistol smiths and get their advice.   Pards like Lassiter, Three Cut, Boomstick Jay, Jimmy Spur, Cowboy Carty, etc........  (my apologies for leaving others out but my mind is drawing a blank at this time).

 

A good smith can 'tune' those Vaqueros that can help eliminate the timing of the 'bolt pop-up' and possibly reduce that drag line completely.

 

best regards,

 

..........Widder

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The drag line comes from closing the loading gate on a Ruger, and the cyl not indexed correctly.

That line does not hurt a thing.........

OLG

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

7 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

The drag line comes from closing the loading gate on a Ruger, and the cyl not indexed correctly.

That line does not hurt a thing.........

OLG

 

 

Thanks for clearing up my info.   (It was Shooting Bull's fault.....  )

 

..........Widder

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

8 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

Thanks for clearing up my info.   (It was Shooting Bull's fault.....  )

 

..........Widder

 

EVERYDANGTHING is Shooting Bull's fault.  Always has been, and always will be. 

OLG

[Red Cent]

Anybody who picks up a Colt or clone (includes the 3 screw Blackhawk) and half cocks the hammer to see if there is anything in the cylinder should ALWAYS bring the hammer to full cock before lowering hammer. This sets up the bolt stop to not drag on the cylinder and fall into place correctly.

 

Now this is converting a Ruger to a Colt. Might change the hammer back.

 

[Red Cent]

http://www.cylindersmith.com/Transferbar.html

 

 

[J.D. Daily]

I see the 1/2 cock conversion advantage is the time saved it affords in recovering from your thumb slipping off the hammer before it is fully cocked.

[Shooting Bull]

1 hour ago, J.D. Daily said:

I see the 1/2 cock conversion advantage is the time saved it affords in recovering from your thumb slipping off the hammer before it is fully cocked.

 

There it is. If you inadvertently slip off the hammer of a box stock Ruger too soon you have to go all the way around the cylinder to get back to the live round. With the half cock mod you just go to full cock and the round is still there. 

[Shooting Bull]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

EVERYDANGTHING is Shooting Bull's fault.  Always has been, and always will be. 

OLG

 

Dang I have a lot of influence around here. I should be getting paid more. 

[Dead River Den, SASS#915]

Red Cent,  that has been modified for fanning, the leades are elingated and deepened, front sight removed and more than likely an aluminum barrel, i wouldnt shoot that with anything but wax bullets unless its been checked out, i have a similar one and they go for more than a typical ruger, just a heads up, 

take care, stay safe

drd

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

13 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Dang I have a lot of influence around here. I should be getting paid more. 

You, should be pay'n us.......

OLG

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Quote

I see the 1/2 cock conversion advantage is the time saved it affords in recovering from your thumb slipping off the hammer before it is fully cocked.

 

Howdy

 

I installed Power Custom 1/2 cock hammers on three 'original model' Vaqueros a long time ago. The reason I did it was not so I could pull the the hammer back again if my thumb slipped off the hammer. I try to very deliberate about pulling the hammer back all the way. Because I am not trying to shoot fast.

 

Anyway, the reason I installed the 1/2 cock hammers was because the 'original model' Vaqueros were set up so when the loading gate was opened for loading, the chambers did not line up perfectly with the loading gate. You had to rotate the cylinder just a tad further. If you rotated it just a tad too far, the hand would pop into the next ratchet tooth on the cylinder, and you could not load that chamber without going around again to line that chamber up with the loading gate. This could get annoying. My purpose in adding the 1/2 cock hammers was solely to get the chambers lined up correctly with the loading gate for every chamber, without having to go around again. Ruger recognized this problem, and when the New Vaquero came out there was a spring plunger installed in the frame which caused the chambers to line up correctly with the loading gate every time. So there was no need for the 1/2 cock hammer, at least not from my point of view.

 

Regarding the little bitty turn line that is typical on Rugers, it is because of the way they are timed. Rugers are purposely timed so the bolt pops up a little bit early. So the bolt strikes the cylinder a little bit in front of the lead in to the cylinder locking notches. They are designed this way on purpose, to help prevent over rotation.  This is the little bit of a turn line on my old 45 Colt Blackhawk that I bought in 1975. That is where the bolt rises, leaving 1/2 turn line. If I cared, I would have to retime the gun so the 1/2 turn line went away. Obviously I don't care.

 

 

 

 

 

Here is a partial turnline on an old 357 Mag Three Screw Blackhawk. Of course this gun existed a long time before I bought it,  but I suspect the partial turn line you see is again because that is where Bill Ruger wanted the bolt to pop up. Again, I don't care.

 

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I have seen posts here on the Wire in the past about doing these mods with pretty good success.

 

Just don't ever send 'em back to Ruger if you do.   Someone posted something here about how he had his Ruger set up the way he wanted it, no transfer bar, half cock notch and everything. 

 

Then for some completely unrelated reason, he had to send it back to Ruger.   I can't remember what it was for, but it was for something unrelated to the action.  Maybe it was something to do with the grips or cylinder pin or something.

 

Anyway, when it came back, all of the custom work he had had done was gone and the gun was back to "factory specs."  Keep that in mind.

[Dantankerous]

2 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

There it is. If you inadvertently slip off the hammer of a box stock Ruger too soon you have to go all the way around the cylinder to get back to the live round. With the half cock mod you just go to full cock and the round is still there. 

 

Exactly.

 

I have cost myself at least 30 seconds total in doing just this at my last three big matches. Never in a monthly, just when I am competing for time. I think the 1/2 cock is worth the money to avoid this. IF you are competing for time. If you're shooting just for fun, no worries.