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Complaining and SASS-Bashing


McCandless

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yup - keep it in-house , if you have a beef bring it up in the right court of correction , if you take it out on social media it hurts everyone for no good or reward , if your not happy think about why and get it to the local folks that control these things , nothing good comes from feeding the media and antis with things they can use against us , 

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

 

This has been hashed about for years We all know the numbers are showing an aging membership along with declining membership. I also learned a few years ago to not disagree to loudly  and will not be baited as I was  once before. 

 I just enjoy shooting and Life is good.

 Best wishes to ALL and we need to enjoy the time we have left.

Again, what numbers? Please show and source your numbers.

 

I am not baiting, just asking an, IMO, reasonable question. Your comment about baiting seems like a pre-emptive way of getting out of substantiating your "facts."

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

 Sass says over 107,000  so I guess all is honey and roses. we  must be growing  faster than all the other shooting games and young people are flocking to sass, I must be wrong. I apologize .No need to discuss any problems with declining membership it must be just fake news.

You want numbers ? you are close to those in the main office of sass. I ask you to call and have them post the actual numbers, total active renewals , etc. that would end the debate  and concerns.

  Best wishes 

 Time for me to go practice for tomorrows shoot

 

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13 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

I do not know if it is so much the whining and complaining as it is seeing the decline in membership and that Sass keeps the failed business model adopted when they brought in the so called marketing guru in the mid 90's that caused the decline.

 The numbers do not lie.

TJB,

I'm not baiting, I'll even stipulate that numbers have declined as many members age out, die, lose interest, whatever.  You say it's a failed business model.  What's your solution?  Nearest i can tell from what's been published, I think the active dues paying members number is about 20,000 or so, + the number of life members like me, with about 250 signing up per month.  If you have an idea for a different "business" model that would do better, don't just hint at it and run off.  Talk.  I'm not "close with those at the top", so I don't know much that isn't written here or discussed around the campfire.  But, if there's a better idea, I know how to pick up a phone and call SASS headquarters.

 

Respectfully,

~Duc~

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11 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Again, what numbers? Please show and source your numbers.

 

I am not baiting, just asking an, IMO, reasonable question. Your comment about baiting seems like a pre-emptive way of getting out of substantiating your "facts."

 

3 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

 Sass says over 107,000  so I guess all is honey and roses. we  must be growing  faster than all the other shooting games and young people are flocking to sass, I must be wrong. I apologize .No need to discuss any problems with declining membership it must be just fake news.

You want numbers ? you are close to those in the main office of sass. I ask you to call and have them post the actual numbers, total active renewals , etc. that would end the debate  and concerns.

  Best wishes 

 Time for me to go practice for tomorrows shoot

 

 

Sir,

 

In polite society, if you make what you believe to be a statement of fact, the burden of defending that fact is on you.  Defending your "facts" by telling someone who questions them to go research it for you and do so in a petulant manner is bad form indeed.  You should apologize to her.

 

 

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I do not understand why people want to publicly trash the sport.  We are all here to have fun and we all do so in different ways.  If dressing period correct is your idea of fun, or dressing Hollywood to the hilt, then that's exactly what you should be doing.  I couldn't care less about dressing the part, but I like big bullets (and I cannot lie) particularly when they are pushed out with lots of flame, noise and smoke.  Obviously that's not everyone's cup of tea, but I think we all have good fun and if you're not, then I respectfully suggest you find a hobby that you will enjoy.

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I just don't get it.  What's not to like?  You're not supposed to birch about having fun.  If it's no longer fun, go find another hobby.  Simple.

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1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

I just don't get it.  What's not to like?  You're not supposed to birch about having fun.  If it's no longer fun, go find another hobby.  Simple.

 

Exactly.

 

 

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The only complaint I have is I don't get enough of it!

 

This was the first Winter Range I've missed in 13 years. Didn't have a choice. I made a promise and I aim to keep it so work came first this year. The only thing I miss (well....maybe not the only thing) about my old job is I had enough senority to make taking time off easy. I haven't made a monthly match in quite a while. Getting today off was unexpected and even if I had I wouldn't have gone because I got WAAAAAYYYYY too many things around the house to get done. Short version is, my retirement part timer job ain't as part timeas I would like it but....I made a promise. My son who would LOVE to get back into cowboy shooting has what every junior copper gets in patrol; weekend nights. So he's working. Their squad is so short getting time off is tough so.....one day. That I know, one day WE will get back to it. Patience.

 

Has CAS changed in the last few years? We're gittin' older. Not as many youngers as I would like to see but we got numbers. The only other sports of the shooting type that compete with our numbers are trap, sporting clays and skeet. Second place to the long rangers of the service rifle persuasion. We got numbers....for now.

 

I think SASS is going in the right direction. Yeah, I miss some of the fun stuff we used to do and I know there are clubs that reflect that too but nothing stays the same.

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As far as a business model goes for SASS, the question you could ask, what age group has the most money

to spend on entertainment? - meaning in the SASS game, dinero for guns, gear, leather, ammo, match and

travel fees? I would imagine you would go after that age group now, that still have a interest in the Old West,

and the money to gear up for SASS. Most millennials and youngsters seem to be hanging on, paycheck to paycheck and their interests about cowboys and the old west is minimal IMHO. Star Wars and those kinds of myths are what

they are into. This younger age group to me seems to be into the 3-Gun game that the video game industry 

promotes, and the firearms in those video games that the "kids" think are cool.

 

SASS could target the age group that has the cash to start from zero and start shooting Cowboy, and that

age group is the 45-55 year olds...young buckaroo's and young millennials is great for the Optics for 

Cowboy Shooting, but financially can they alone sustain their shooting interest without family and parental

support? Targeting the age group who can economically invest and play the game over time is the 45-55 year old folks.

Make SASS look cool and inviting to these people and age range for the long run, to keep the SASS game going

well into the future.

 

 

 

 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
2 hours ago, Dubious Don #56333 said:

The only complaint I have is I don't get enough of it!

 

This was the first Winter Range I've missed in 13 years. Didn't have a choice. I made a promise and I aim to keep it so work came first this year. The only thing I miss (well....maybe not the only thing) about my old job is I had enough senority to make taking time off easy. I haven't made a monthly match in quite a while. Getting today off was unexpected and even if I had I wouldn't have gone because I got WAAAAAYYYYY too many things around the house to get done. Short version is, my retirement part timer job ain't as part timeas I would like it but....I made a promise. My son who would LOVE to get back into cowboy shooting has what every junior copper gets in patrol; weekend nights. So he's working. Their squad is so short getting time off is tough so.....one day. That I know, one day WE will get back to it. Patience.

 

Has CAS changed in the last few years? We're gittin' older. Not as many youngers as I would like to see but we got numbers. The only other sports of the shooting type that compete with our numbers are trap, sporting clays and skeet. Second place to the long rangers of the service rifle persuasion. We got numbers....for now.

 

I think SASS is going in the right direction. Yeah, I miss some of the fun stuff we used to do and I know there are clubs that reflect that too but nothing stays the same.

 

 As Allie would say, Could you please show us these numbers .

 

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21 hours ago, A.J. McDraw, SASS #52088 said:

SASS could target the age group that has the cash to start from zero and start shooting Cowboy, and that

age group is the 45-55 year olds...young buckaroo's and young millennials is great for the Optics for 

Cowboy Shooting, but financially can they alone sustain their shooting interest without family and parental

support? Targeting the age group who can economically invest and play the game over time is the 45-55 year old folks.

Make SASS look cool and inviting to these people and age range for the long run, to keep the SASS game going

well into the future.

 

 

 

 

That's a good idea.  I''ll have to put on my "thinking cap" and see if I can come up with a way to specifically target that age group.  Anybody got any suggestions?

I think that "Light'em Up" video was pretty good for that.

But, this is not a "failed business model", so much as simply focusing advertising to a specific target group.

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Strange thing about SASS.....

 

SASS will allow YOU to post on the Wire (within reason) your dislikes about it and the manner in which you don't like (or disagree with) its management,  mode of operations, etc.........

 

BUT, it won't allow you to bash someone else or another business,  etc.........

 

TO me, that says a lot about the GOOD strong character of those running the show.    Likewise, I'm sure those running the show would love to hear from ANYONE who has any positive ideas as how to improve SASS and its operations.

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

Exactly.

im in agreement here , i live to enjoy life now and SASS adds to it , if not ill go away , simple thing to understand , 

 

 

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On 5/5/2018 at 5:24 PM, McCandless said:

That's a good idea.  I''ll have to put on my "thinking cap" and see if I can come up with a way to specifically target that age group.  Anybody got any suggestions?

I think that "Light'em Up" video was pretty good for that.

But, this is not a "failed business model", so much as simply focusing advertising to a specific target group.

Yes,  "Light'em Up" is a good starting point to get inspiration on the business target model SASS could

consider to influence the 45-55 age group. Fast shooting, making the old west firearms perform like modern day

semi-auto pistols creates that WOW factor. You put that with fast athletic shooters who are in that age group and

you got something. I never posted anything about SASS having a failed business model, only a possible shift

in target focus to a member age group that could help sustain and add to membership overall. The shooting and

firearms of the old west, speed and accuracy and fun...are more attractive and relatable dare I say to the costuming

and historical aspects of cowboy shooting to new shooters in this group. I am glad we all have a chance to see how

it plays out. I am not in anyway Bashing SASS, just posting my own opinion for consideration. :D

 

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The shooting and

firearms of the old west, speed and accuracy and fun...are more attractive and relatable dare I say to the costuming

and historical aspects of cowboy shooting to new shooters in this group.

 

I agree to that sentence!  That is what drew me into SASS not costumes.

 

 

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Quote

Wasn't the gunfight by the OK Corral in Tombstone basically a Stand and Deliver? 

Yep.  And the cloud of smoke so thick in that back alley you couldn't cut it with a knife. 

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1 hour ago, Cheatin Charlie said:

 

I agree to that sentence!  That is what drew me into SASS not costumes.

 

 

 

That is what is unique to SASS. Both the guns and the costuming. 

 

Some like the shooting. Some like the costuming. Some, like me, a Classic Cowboy or my B Western brethren, like or dare I say love both. 

 

In SASS there is something for each of us.

 

:D

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cheatin Charlie said:

The shooting and

firearms of the old west, speed and accuracy and fun...are more attractive and relatable dare I say to the costuming

and historical aspects of cowboy shooting to new shooters in this group.

 

I agree to that sentence!  That is what drew me into SASS not costumes.

 

 

But it is more than three-gun refugees with old guns, and it includes those who are not athletes or are no longer. I think it means a lot more if relating to the history and depictions of the Old West.

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I suggest  to those that complain/ whinge etc about this great game we play is try living in  a country that the political powers watch everything you do & the aim is to restrict your firearm ownership with the intent of taking them completely....!!!!

I love  everything about 'Cowboy  & to lose it would be devastating.

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On 5/10/2018 at 3:58 PM, Painted Mohawk SASS 77785 said:

I suggest  to those that complain/ whinge etc about this great game we play is try living in  a country that the political powers watch everything you do & the aim is to restrict your firearm ownership with the intent of taking them completely....!!!!

I love  everything about 'Cowboy  & to lose it would be devastating.

Ya, mean like Kalifornia?

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7 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Ya, mean like Kalifornia?

Yul..I been a listenen ' & a readin' bout that..they really are trying to destroy your 2nd amendment !!!!!!

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This past Saturday's match, temperature was a Very Humid 90 degrees.  I dressed minimalist.  Cowboy Shirt from one of our fine vendors, felt cowboy hat, denim jeans with belt, western boots.  No bandana, vest, chaps, spurs, coat, suspenders, or whatever.   (more power to those who do, you Classic Cowpersons and B-Westerners are my heroes.  I woulda fell over if I'd had done that!)  Just was thankful to get back to shooting.  My hat got soaked through with sweat and it dripped down off the brim onto the score sheets.  (Sorry!)  Guess what?  No one complained about me not being dressed "cowboy enough".  Could it be that the complainers don't actually come out and shoot?  Could it be that they are just "keyboard warriors"?  Nah!  Say it ain't so!?

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I don’t see that many complaints on social media or the wire? About things listed in post?  I’ll start looking harder.

 

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In the spirit of complaining, ah think I kin come up with a few.

 

1.  There's way too many shoots.  All over the country,  All of them good.  Fun too.  And just too little time.

2.  Monthly shoots, every weekend, holiday, and sometimes through the week hot, cold, rain or snow  and most times the food is better than goin' to a restaurant.  Ya gotta rest sometime.

3.  Nice people everywhere.  Folks always tryin' ta help.  Volunteerin' to plan, work, build, tote, jes so's we kin have fun.

And them folks that run SASS, ya just cain't git a bad word outta them.  Ah've seen some try purty hard too with their name callin'.   Everyone so nice ya gotta stop in at a town meetin' or little league game every now & then.

4.  Most all the cow folk playin' this game are solid, true blue Americans, where their word is their bond and ya kin trust them in yer ranch house even when yer not home.    That distorts the reality of the general population of the country these days.

5. And then there's the SASS wire, where the longest threads are folks complainin' 'bout complainin'.  That's ok, but the problem is by the time they git several pages long, nobody reads my complaints and they fall on deaf ears.

6.  Finally, Widder I'd much rather have a coke than a pepsi, Pard!!!  ...not really, I like pepsi too, I jes wanted to complain!

 

I'd complain some more, but I gotta go to the saloon.

 

ah forgot my biggest complaint.  everytime I find a good leather maker, gunsmith, or new cowboy product, a bunch of ya'll start publicizin' it over and over, then the waiting gits longer, the product runs out.   

 

Now I feel better.

 

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On 5/10/2018 at 1:48 PM, Dantankerous said:

 

That is what is unique to SASS. Both the guns and the costuming. 

 

Some like the shooting. Some like the costuming. Some, like me, a Classic Cowboy or my B Western brethren, like or dare I say love both. 

 

In SASS there is something for each of us.

 

:D

 

 

 

I like the people.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I've been shooting cowboy for about 15 years now.  I gave up silhouette shooting a few years before starting SASS, because it just wasn't fun anymore.  Cowboy shooting has definitely evolved since I've been doing it. 

 

Yes, it has become a speed game for the top shooters, but at the clubs I shoot with, everyone is accepting of people “doing their own thing”.  I can’t tell you how many times we’ve had an Outlaw shooter walk up to the line and tell the spotters to give him his “P” and then shoot the stages with crossovers and wide splits.  No one condemns these shooters; they get hoots, hollers, and applause from everyone in the posse.  THIS GAME IS ABOUT HAVING FUN!

 

There is room in this game for everyone from the speed merchants to BP shooters shooting stout loads.  If someone is no longer having fun, find something else to do rather than publically complaining about it.   

 

What keeps my wife and me in SASS are the friends we have made.  We are closer to our cowboy family than any other group we belong to.  It took me 8 years to get my wife involved in cowboy shooting, but now it’s one of the main parts of her life.  She mentioned not long ago that she has over 100 new friends and she wishes she had gotten involved sooner.

 

I also need to mention that we have never done business with a nicer and more honest group of people.  We’ve met many top shooters, gunsmiths, and venders who have been wonderful to do business with.  There are others that I’ve never met in person that have treated us like best friends.  Recently Johnny Meadows and Jimmy Spurs went out of their way to help me with gun issues.  I’ve had similar experiences with Cody Conagher, Long Hunter, and Wicked Felina in the past, just to name a few.

 

After 43 years in education and coaching, I’m used to dealing with a wide variety of people.  There is no way to make everyone happy.  SASS is not perfect, but it is one of the best organizations I’ve ever been a part of.

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JMO,

 

If anyone wants to bash SASS, the Wire, or the Wire Moderators, this is not the place.

 

This morning, I just heard that there is a FB group that allows that type of thing. I thought they put a stop to it months ago. I guess I was mistaken.

 

I recommend not insulting your hosts and taking your complaints elsewhere. That is, unless, you can state them politely, like mature adults.

 

AM

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