no trophy--just recognition State Match winners when less than 3 in a category

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

When waiting for the match to start today we got to talking (something we do quite often)

 

turned to the winners of the State match and thus the following situation:

 

lady shooter is only one in her category and hails from the state that is having the match.

 

chooses to shoot with the guys in that category (less the "Ladies" part)  so she's in with 8 males

 

Now even though her category was collapsed (a sideways collapse to be sure) the question is

 

It's she the State Ladies Champion in her category?  (did not come out on top of the group with men and her in it)

 

Not looking for any trophy/belt buckle/keyes to Caddy, just recognition she is the top Lady in that category at that match.

 

The state champion in another category was the 3 place winner and the first two were from out of state--so shouldn't  she be the top Lady shooter for her category??

 

Would like to hear the thoughts of the Wire . . . 

 

 

 

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Personally,  I think she would warrant the 'Ladies State Champion' in her category.

 

I also think an appropriate award (equal to other awards) should be given to her.

 

..........Widder

 

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

In Tennessee if it is a SASS approved Category we will recognize it and have an award even if there is only 1 in the Category. If she chooses to register in the open Category ( there are no Men's Categories in SASS) instead of the Ladies we would not recognize her as the Ladies Champion.

 

Here is a link to the application and Categories offered.

 

http://www.wartraceregulators.com/2018State/application.pdf

 

Randy

[Calico Mary]

In the first scenario, if the lady was shooting in the open category, no she would not be State Champ in the corresponding Ladies Category, she wasn't allowed to shoot it, there would be no Champ for the Ladies category in that instance.  Which is exactly why there should never BE a required minimum for official categories.  Matches need to quit punishing the ladies that choose to shoot something besides age based ones just because no other ladies in their area are interested in doing the same thing.  I can see requiring a minimum for unofficial categories, but not the official ones.  For instance, if there is only one lady in an entire state that shoots Classic Cowgirl, but does so the majority of the time at monthly matches, why deny her the right to shoot it at the state match just because no one else want to?  I especially get tired of hearing men who shoot in over populated categories say awards are meaningless if there is no competition for them, they should try being a Classic Cowgirl or a Lady Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter in a state where you are the ONLY one doing it....doesn't mean ladies like us don't put as much into a match as the ladies in Lady Wrangler or Lady Senior do....give us a little credit for trying something more difficult at least!  And don't tell me it's not more difficult, if it wasn't there'd be more women doing it!

 

In the second scenario, if the top two shooters in the category are from out of state, the first place one is top shooter in the category, the 3rd place one (highest shooter from that state) would be State Champ....two entirely different awards.

[Black Hills Barb]

The PA State match honors all SASS categories regardless of the number of shooters registered in them.  All category winners and those that place down to 3rd or 4th, depending on the number in the category, receive awards.  All top PA shooters in category receive recognition as well.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

This is one of those issues that it is easy to see both sides. We have a relatively small number of lady shooters at our state match. My wife would likely be the only woman in her category from our state and ( unless she gets a MDQ ) would be the state champ.  If I was the only shooter in my category I wouldn't feel like I had really won.  But that is just me and I don't think there is a wrong answer to this one.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

You know...it says something about a person that wants to shoot a more complex category than an age based category...whether it be CC or FC or GF or F. I think it warrants an award...and these folks are not responsible for the fact that others don't want to play in these categories.

 

I think it sucks that they can't play and be recognized all for the sake of a few dollars.

 

Phantom

[StirrupTrouble]

We recognize all official SASS categories at our state match no matter how many register. I don't feel it is right to punish a shooter that shoots a tough category by forcing them to shoot a different category than they normally shoot simply because not many in the state shoot it. That being said, if I have a shooter decide they want to be an Elder Statesman Classic Cowboy simply to chase an award, I will collapse that in a heartbeat unless he gets some buddies to sign up for it. I just don't feel it is right to hurt shooters in normal SASS categories over a $10 plaque. If my budget is that tight, I need to reexamine how I am spending the match money

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

I think it would be nice of the state match committees at least  OFFERED all the SASS-approved categories. It is kind of a bummer to shoot the same way all year, every year, year after year and not even have your category OFFERED at your state match.  How are those of us that take on the more difficult categories supposed to encourage and hopefully grow these categories if they aren't even offered?  It kind of shuts down the conversation before it starts and creates the appearance (even if that's not the case) that the committee is not supportive of us ladies. 

I think a little extra communication from the committee if the category isn't meeting the minimum  - a couple of emails on the status as things develop and again as the cut off and final decisions about what to order approaches - could be done so the shooters could do some additional work on encouraging a few more to join in  would be a good way to show support.

 

WR  took this approach and I so appreciated Sunshine Kay's email effort to make sure those of us in 2 of the Ladies BP categories and CC knew what was happening and  we were able to make the effort to call, email, text, FB and coordinate with each other.  We were able to save 2 of the 3 short categories.   If there is a minimum stated and it isn't met after being offered, and those people are notified in time to work on it,  I'm OK with not having that category and I'll shoot with my Soot Buddies in FCGF.

 

[Blackwater 53393]

16 minutes ago, Lou Graham, # 26112 said:

I think it would be nice of the state match committees at least  OFFERED all the SASS-approved categories. It is kind of a bummer to shoot the same way all year, every year, year after year and not even have your category OFFERED at your state match.  How are those of us that take on the more difficult categories supposed to encourage and hopefully grow these categories if they aren't even offered?  It kind of shuts down the conversation before it starts and creates the appearance (even if that's not the case) that the committee is not supportive of us ladies. 

I think a little extra communication from the committee if the category isn't meeting the minimum  - a couple of emails on the status as things develop and again as the cut off and final decisions about what to order approaches - could be done so the shooters could do some additional work on encouraging a few more to join in  would be a good way to show support.

 

WR  took this approach and I so appreciated Sunshine Kay's email effort to make sure those of us in 2 of the Ladies BP categories and CC knew what was happening and  we were able to make the effort to call, email, text, FB and coordinate with each other.  We were able to save 2 of the 3 short categories.   If there is a minimum stated and it isn't met after being offered, and those people are notified in time to work on it,  I'm OK with not having that category and I'll shoot with my Soot Buddies in FCGF.

 

 

Howdy, Lou!!  Long time!!

[Black Hills Barb]

9 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You know...it says something about a person that wants to shoot a more complex category than an age based category...whether it be CC or FC or GF or F. I think it warrants an award...and these folks are not responsible for the fact that others don't want to play in these categories.

 

I think it sucks that they can't play and be recognized all for the sake of a few dollars.

 

Phantom

 

I used to shoot gunfighter.  I lost count of how many times my category was not recognized at annual matches.  I was told I could shoot in an age based ladies category, pick any other "populated category" etc.  Whenever this happened I shot gunfighter with the fellas.  How was I to improve my game or see how I stacked up against others if I did not shoot my category?  I later had a pinched nerve that left me unsure of the strength in my left arm and hand.  About that same time, Classic Cowboy category was introduced.  I already wore all the clothing and accessories because I love the cowboy "dress code" so I switched to that.  I have shot it ever since.  In the beginning, I experienced the same disappointment at matches having been requested to pick a new category.  I ALWAYS shot with the guys.  I guess it bothered me some, but since so many other matches did the same thing at that time, I just rolled with it.  I was so excited to have been able to shoot with an actual field of competitors at Winter Range and EOT.  Perhaps my finish would not have been as good had I not always stayed in my category and shot with the guys.  

As a MD now, we recognize all categories.  Our committee is also adamant about that.  No one wants to penalize the shooter because they are the sole competitor in their category.  It might cost us some extra when purchasing awards, but it could lose us shooters in the long run if we did not do so.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

do you want more female shooters?   more shooters of any kind?  acknowledge them!!!

[Doc Shapiro]

Personally, I think awards up to 3 deep is fine.  Going more than that feels like a participation trophy.  And absolutely give awards in categories of less than 3.  Just don't go more than 3 deep.

 

I also really like awards I can wear or hang on the wall.  Shelf space is rare, and normal trophies end up in a box.  My favorite awards are small badges that can be worn on suspenders.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

3 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Personally, I think awards up to 3 deep is fine.  Going more than that feels like a participation trophy.  And absolutely give awards in categories of less than 3.  Just don't go more than 3 deep.

 

I also really like awards I can wear or hang on the wall.  Shelf space is rare, and normal trophies end up in a box.  My favorite awards are small badges that can be worn on suspenders.

Finishing in the top 10 in categories such as 49'er, Senior, Wrangler, Silver Senior and others is in many cases a huge achievement and anything BUT a participation award.

 

And if it brings a smile to a competitor's face...what's the big deal. Don't give me the "everyone wins mentality", because many folks still don't win awards.

 

Phantom

[StirrupTrouble]

45 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Finishing in the top 10 in categories such as 49'er, Senior, Wrangler, Silver Senior and others is in many cases a huge achievement and anything BUT a participation award.

 

And if it brings a smile to a competitor's face...what's the big deal. Don't give me the "everyone wins mentality", because many folks still don't win awards.

 

Phantom

This is why at our recent state shoot we went as deep as five in some categories, depending on the number of shooters registered. We had as many as 17 in some categories, so it seemed like a relatively inexpensive way to recognize more folks and have a few more people leave smiling

[Rolan Kraps, SASS # 24084 Life]

Not my Circus,

Not my monkeys.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

NM State match this year, we'll award up to three deep if there are that many shooters in any SASS required category.

 

I don't even see the "other side" of this argument.

 

Good luck, GJ