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Angles and Belly Buttons...


Phantom, SASS #54973

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7 hours ago, Major Crimes said:

Barbra Eden?

 

images.jpg

She's no Angel, but that there is a belly button!

    I gotta ask. Just how do yall go about checking to see if a sg belt is at or below the belly button? Do you have them raise their shirt, or poke 'em?

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12 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

She's no Angel, but that there is a belly button!

    I gotta ask. Just how do yall go about checking to see if a sg belt is at or below the belly button? Do you have them raise their shirt, or poke 'em?

Gus in Lonesome Dove “ I won’t say I cheated and I didn’t say I did not cheat, but any man who wouldn’t cheat for a poke don’t want one bad enough.” 

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30 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

She's no Angel, but that there is a belly button!

    I gotta ask. Just how do yall go about checking to see if a sg belt is at or below the belly button? Do you have them raise their shirt, or poke 'em?

Yes...ask them. Sometimes it's fricken obvious!

 

Secondly, posting or reposting stoopid pictures does nothing to advance the discussion.

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

I didn't realize the subject was only about revolvers. I thought it was about rules infractions. When I am sitting at the ULT and some one comes off the line and his shotgun or rifle is pointed straight at me I consider that to be at least as bad as holstering and breaking the 170 with or without sweeping someone.

kR

 

That IS "sweeping" someone (YOU, as the ULTO)! 

Do you "make the call" (SDQ) when that happens?

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10 hours ago, watab kid said:

i had this same experience - i was wearing a standard galco holster made for this game - no modifications had been made and i too was doin the dance , i have seen custom rigs i question , but ill be honest - i think most are made to standard and it may be the body shape that makes it appear to violate , i have seen more violations of the separation of holsters than angle of the cross draw , ive always wondered why gamers dont just work hard at acheiving the optimum of their performance within the perimeter of the edge of the rule rather than break them , does it not seem to defeat the purpose of being the best really ? ? 

 

Even if the holster is made for a 30 degree cant, once you put it on some of our more "rotund" bodies (I am not saying this is the case for you) the belt is not perfectly horizontal and now the holster has a cant of greater than 30 degrees and is breaking the rule. This includes non cross draw holsters.

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On 4/15/2018 at 6:32 PM, Tell Sackett SASS 18436 said:

I've always wondered how they planned to find out where anyones belly button WAS?  Good luck checking on mine.

You ask.

Mr/Miss shooter, your shells seem to riding a little high. Just so I won't bother you again, would you put your finger on you belly button for me?

The finger should be at or above the bottom of shells on the belt.

Shotgun slides on top of shotgun slides aren't legal either.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Yes...ask them. Sometimes it's fricken obvious!

 

Secondly, posting or reposting stoopid pictures does nothing to advance the discussion.

 

Phantom

Alright then, I'll bite...

    Stoopid (assume you mean stupid) in this sense is a relative term. It may be to you, but that does not mean it is to someone else.

     Lets look at the belly button thing now. You may not know as much as you think you do in regards to anatomy. If it looks to you like a whole lot of people are wearing them high, could it be possible you just are not a good guesser of where a bellybutton is? Maybe you have an unnaturally low bellybutton so that gives you a misguided preconceived notion of where others' are. Everybodies bb is not in the same place. For instance, mine is even with the outside bend of my elbow. Meaning, if I stand up and bend my arms at 90° my bb is even with the bottom the bend of my arm. Looking at the stoopit picture of Barbra Eden, you see hers is lower. Lets look at some of the fastest shotgun shooters there are. Widder with the 97, Lassiter with the 87, Deuce and some others with the side by side. They wear theirs at the correct spot. I don't think someone wearing a high sg belt makes them a gamer. If anything it makes them an ungamer, because we know how the fastest in the world wear theirs. I'm not saying wearing it high is ok or not against the rules. I'm saying that it is not a good excuse to use when someone outruns you with a shotgun. You'll have to find a different one.

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I'm not going to respond in the way of like... It would just get me banned again...

 

First, thanks for the lesson in anatomy.

 

Second, don't use my copywrited spelling of stoopid.

 

Third, your silly comment about my reason for beinging this up is because I'm looking for an excuse for someone being faster on shotgun is laughable.

 

And lastly, it's silly posts like the Barbara Eden ones that make the Wire a joke... So let's stop with them.

 

Phantom... Good enough with the shotgun to win a World Championship...

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4 hours ago, Kid Rich said:

I didn't realize the subject was only about revolvers. I thought it was about rules infractions. When I am sitting at the ULT and some one comes off the line and his shotgun or rifle is pointed straight at me I consider that to be at least as bad as holstering and breaking the 170 with or without sweeping someone.

kR

Howdy Kid Rich,

Told you I was cornfused.  I didn't realize you was talkin' about being swept.  Call it, there and then.  It's the only way to stop it.  Usually, the final command I hear from the T.O. at the end of the run is "take your guns to the unloading table, watch your muzzles".  Most T.O.'s do that.  Yep, I've had a rifle muzzle pointed right at my forehead.   Call it.  Don't tolerate it.  Rules violations will never get fixed without enforcement.

 

Respectfully,

~Duc~

 

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'm not going to respond in the way of like... It would just get me banned again...

 

First, thanks for the lesson in anatomy.

 

Second, don't use my copywrited spelling of stoopid.

 

Third, your silly comment about my reason for beinging this up is because I'm looking for an excuse for someone being faster on shotgun is laughable.

 

And lastly, it's silly posts like the Barbara Eden ones that make the Wire a joke... So let's stop with them.

 

Phantom... Good enough with the shotgun to win a World Championship...

      Feel free to email me with whatever response you would like. Tn65chevelle@gmail.com.

 

You are welcome.

 

I kind of like that spelling and may use it from now on when I want to sound cool.

 

I don't think you are picking up what I'm putting down. I mean You as in you all or anybody, everybody.

 

I like the Barbra Eden picture that Major Crimes posted. I have saved it for future consideration of use.

 

Congratulations. I feel like I should bow or something.

default_laugh.png

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Second, don't use my copywrited spelling of stoopid.

 

And lastly, it's silly posts like the Barbara Eden ones that make the Wire a joke... So let's stop with them.

 

I don't see any trademark after "stoopid" so not sure you have a case on that one.

 

I do wonder, however, if the Wire is such a joke, why did you bother to come back after all these years away and waste your time? Last I checked, you are not the proprietor of this here establishment, therefore, your opinion on the matter holds no more weight than anyone else. Personally, I question anyone that has a problem with someone posting a picture of a beautiful woman. "Not that there's anything wrong with that"

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This thread has got me thinking...

 

So, let's say a shooter has a SG belt just above their belly button.  What would the call be if they didn't move it down prior to shooting the stage?  I never really thought about what the call would be.

 

Or, What if the belt slides up above the belly button after pulling the first to shells and the shooter pulls the next 2 shells while the it too high and does not correct it?  Is it the same call?

 

Other than how it looks when worn really high, what is the reasoning behind the rule being at the belly button?  Seems something had to have caused the rule to be created.

 

Totes

 

 

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Quote

 

5-SECOND PENALTIES

...

- Each target hit with illegally acquired ammunition.

...

10-SECOND PENALTIES

...

- Use of illegally acquired ammunition.

 

SHB p.21

 

Quote

- Illegally acquired ammunition is any ammunition not carried to the line and/or staged by the shooter in an approved manner.

SHB p.27

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42 minutes ago, Totes Magoats said:

...

Other than how it looks when worn really high, what is the reasoning behind the rule being at the belly button?  Seems something had to have caused the rule to be created.

Totes

 

The fact that a "shotgun bra" simply looks STOOPID©  was reason enough at the time.

:P

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6 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And lastly, it's silly posts like the Barbara Eden ones that make the Wire a joke... So let's stop with them.

 

Because we dont need humour and jokes in this world, or because this sport we all love is life and death and we are not taking it seriously enough?

 

Love, from your SILLY/ STOOPID© Aussie

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I see Phantom's point.  Why have a rule that goes unenforced? 

 

Most SASS rules seem to address a safety concern.  Other rules address procedures, costume, etc. 

 

I guess the ammo below the belly button rule is aimed at addressing a potential advantage higher placed ammo might have.  All the fast shooters seem to keep their shotguns on or near their shoulder, in other words, they keep the gun up high.  Having the ammo up high would seem to be an advantage to a practiced hand even if looks ridiculous.  Seeing as this perceived advantage would only offer a fraction of a second in speed it would really only make a difference to a very high-level shooter. 

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All clothing and equipment must be worn appropriately and how it was intended, or how it would have been in the Old West or as seen on B-Western movies and television.  

SHB p.2

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6 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

I don't see any trademark after "stoopid" so not sure you have a case on that one.

 

I do wonder, however, if the Wire is such a joke, why did you bother to come back after all these years away and waste your time? Last I checked, you are not the proprietor of this here establishment, therefore, your opinion on the matter holds no more weight than anyone else. Personally, I question anyone that has a problem with someone posting a picture of a beautiful woman. "Not that there's anything wrong with that"

If you think the Wire has not been perceived as a joke, what prompted it's recent change? 

 

But that's a whole different topic.

 

And talk about lack of humor.  You reacted like I was serious about my copywrite comment...

 

If you don't like my opinion, debate me. If you don't want to debate me, than simply avoid my posts. A little self control can alleviate a lot of aggravation.

 

Phantom

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20 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

You're saying that they have their holster closer then 2 fists apart??

 

And why attack folks with the Gamer label?

 

And one last thing. Do you really think that Galco really understands the CAS world???

 

Phantom

 

sorry , was not meant as an attack really , its become a common term in some circles for those that seek the advantages presented and are smart enough to see them , i have never been in that category as ive got all i can do not to finish last , i really did not mean to insult someone smart enough to do better , 

 

i did mean that ive seen holsters closer than the two fist , again not that i really care , ive just seen it and said so , 

 

galco made an effort to serve our area of shooting , i appreciate the simplicity of their product as when i started i couldnt afford a custom set to be hand made for me , now i can but ive not settled on what that might be and may never really get there , again i was not slamming any custom leather maker in any way , i admire them and their talent , nothing i could do to be sure , 

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"Even if the holster is made for a 30 degree cant, once you put it on some of our more "rotund" bodies (I am not saying this is the case for you) the belt is not perfectly horizontal and now the holster has a cant of greater than 30 degrees and is breaking the rule. This includes non cross draw holsters. "

 

If I understand the statement, I believe it is the reverse. Cow people order their holsters mostly with a straight drop. If the front is much lower than the back (most are) the result is that you have the FBI cant on a SASS rig. 

 

When I get an order for a SASS rig, I politely find out how much does the top back of their present rig belt ( or dress/casual belt) set over the top front. I adjust the "built in cant" to net an ergonomic cant that provides an ergonomic and smooth draw. And reholster. 

 

Phantom ol' buddy, 'bout time this site was livened up a bit. Reminds me of "not enough smoke", "woose loads", "dang gamers", and other things worth arguing about.

 

 

 

 

 

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The rules should be enforced at club level, so when shooter travel for state or higher level matches everyone will be on the same page

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14 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

SHB p.2

I wonder if anyone could share a picture of a shotgun belt being worn in a period photo, B-western, or television show. I thought it was a CAS invention to enable a three-gun competition. I don't know about bandoliers, but I refer here to the belts in question.

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1 hour ago, El Hombre said:

The rules should be enforced at club level, so when shooter travel for state or higher level matches everyone will be on the same page

Exactly right and I believe that’s what the OP was getting at in his post.

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1 hour ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

I wonder if anyone could share a picture of a shotgun belt being worn in a period photo, B-western, or television show. I thought it was a CAS invention to enable a three-gun competition. I don't know about bandoliers, but I refer here to the belts in question.

 

Selective reading? 

Did you miss the first part of the statement...before the "or"? 

Quote

All clothing and equipment must be worn appropriately and how it was intended, or...

 

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17 hours ago, July Smith said:

I see Phantom's point.  Why have a rule that goes unenforced?

 

Which is one of the reasons why I have been a proponent of requiring re-certification in order to maintain RO status.

 

Right now, a person who took one RO class, 15 years ago, and hasn't cracked open a shooters handbook since and who does not have a TG who keeps everyone informed of clarifications and changes, is just as qualified as a student who took the class last week and is up to date with all the rules.

 

The RO classes should continually emphasize the importance of enforcing the rules just as a competent RO is always learning from the rules and their experiences. Recertification demonstrates an RO's commitment to enforcing the rules of the game, not only at the time when they first took the class, but throughout their shooting years.

 

 

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The TO should not be blamed. The spotters should not be blamed. Yeah, I know. We all are safety officers.

Unless the President of the club or, maybe, the match director announces periodically that all SASS rules will be enforced, then the grunts will ignore them. A SASS affiliated club should have a little organization from the top down. Have a meeting periodically with the dedicated few and drive into them that the club expects adherence to the rules. 

That stuff runs down hill folks. 

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Everett hitch in "Appaloosa" with his 8 guage

 

everett-and-virgil.png

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Pictures, pictures, pictures. Post some pictures and explain them. What's right and what's wrong. Post a picture of yourself and your SG belt. They say a picture is worth a thousand words.

WW

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