Could RO 1 and RO 2 Classes Be Offered Online?

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

Would it be possible to include an online RO 1 and RO 2 class on the SASS website?  I know the handbook for theses classes are already available.  I have completed both the RO 1 and RO 2 classes.  My wife, however, because of a fulltime work schedule and extended family obligations, has never been able to attend any of our local classes.  Our local instructor is excellent, but something has come up every time a class is scheduled.

 

As a longtime educator I have seen many of our required courses, such as recognizing and reporting child abuse, go to an online format.  A teacher spends a couple of hours going over the program and then takes the online test.  If they pass the test, they can then download a certificate of completion.  I know currently that there is also a fee involved to cover the cost of the RO pin, the printed certificate, and postage.  If the certificate could be downloaded upon completion of the course, shooters could be offered the option of purchasing the pin for a cost if they really wanted a pin.  My RO pins sit in my jewelry box (I'm not much of a pin or badge guy). 

 

Obviously face to face interaction with a good instructor is the best way to complete RO training, but I think also offering an online version would be a good way to get more of our members to complete these classes.  

 

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

I like it!

[Nickel City Dude]

That is a good idea.  This way more people could be qualified as RO1 & RO2.  I would be willing to take the course on line.

[John Henry Quick]

I think RO-1 could go online, but RO-2 has hands-on training on the range that cannot be replicated online.

 

 

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

HOW CAN YOU BE SHORE THE PERSON LISTED IS THE PERSON TAKING THE TEST AS HONEST AS WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WILLING TO CUT CORNERS. I DON'T IT IT WOULD WORK TO THE BEST OUTCOME

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Howdy Mongo.

 

I'm guessing, but......... one of the concerns of SASS and making recognition of RO status is to ensure the person who is being awarded the RO Pin is actually the person who qualified for it.

In other words, how will SASS know WHO is actually on the other end of the line taking the test, or with assistance?

 

Just a thought.

 

..........Widder

 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

S.Pacific was typing faster than me..... 

 

..........Widder

 

[John Henry Quick]

1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

S.Pacific was typing faster than me..... 

 

..........Widder

 

 

Yeah, and he was yelling too! 

[Rye Miles #13621]

6 minutes ago, SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 said:

HOW CAN YOU BE SHORE THE PERSON LISTED IS THE PERSON TAKING THE TEST AS HONEST AS WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE WILLING TO CUT CORNERS. I DON'T IT IT WOULD WORK TO THE BEST OUTCOME

 

2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Howdy Mongo.

 

I'm guessing, but......... one of the concerns of SASS and making recognition of RO status is to ensure the person who is being awarded the RO Pin is actually the person who qualified for it.

In other words, how will SASS know WHO is actually on the other end of the line taking the test, or with assistance?

 

Just a thought.

 

..........Widder

 

Honesty,  it's the "cowboy way", I'd like to think we can trust each other on this!

[John Henry Quick]

2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

Honesty,  it's the "cowboy way", I'd like to think we can trust each other on this!

 

True dat.  Also, the tests are so easy that any adult that has to cheat probably can't find his way to the range anyway. 

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

They should be offered on line. I have worked with several productions of online educational classes. They are very effective and can offered some great learning with video and quality illustrations. Our goal should be to offer easy access to quality training to our members. With RO 1 online with a refresher to follow we could increase the number of people who take the class. Currently many of us watch YouTube of SASS shooters at Winter Trail or other Shoots and there are some great videos on how to improve our shooting ability, why not take it one step further. Besides I took RO1&2 only to find out that the instructors failed to submit or the registration was screwed up and it was never recorded at the SASS office.

i had suggested video training class for RO 1 a few years ago at a TG meeting at one of the regional shoots and th majority at that time thought it was a good idea .

[Pat Riot]

Not to be difficult, but it's my opinion that if someone wants to become an RO they will or should make the effort and take the time to attend the courses in person.

 

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

Pat, I understand your thoughts but that can be difficult. The closest class for me is over 200 miles away. The classes are offered every few years at best. Many times the class is offered prior to a shoot so that means a weekday and taking time off work.it is not all that easy to do. If the goal of the class is to. I sure safe operation of our shoots we should do all we can to offer the class. Besides I. Think we should have a YouTube that is produced on rule changes. Most people are visual learners so a video would help. 

If you look at the shooting videos that Long Hunter made a few years ago and how to shoot SASS they are great learning tools.

besides a video platform would also allow viewing to non sass people and to members outside the US? The more exposure maybe the more people interested in our sport.

several years ago an association I belong to started a video training program. It has over 75,000 users now.

[Tyrel Cody]

Being a programmer I get to work from home a lot. When the team has meetings we start a video conference and everyone is required to have a video/web camera so we can speak face to face. Seems this might be a solution, at least for ROI classes. I don't know if there are any free options but there are some options that aren't terrible expensive.

[Assassin]

We have a whole bunch of online courses at work, some we must pass annually others every two years. They are all compliance oriented and are necessary for day to day operations. There are a couple that are tougher than others and if we have questions we can contact the compliance officer. A test is given after watching the videos, we have three times to pass the test. If you don't pass the test, take the course over until you get it right. Online would be a very valuable source of training,

especially when we have rule changes. Some people will never be good R.O.'s regardless of the amount of training, they just don't have what it takes or they just don't want to assume the responsibility.

[LostVaquero]

I certainly would be interested.  So far the only one offered was far away and seldom.

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

I GUESS I HAVE VERRY HARD OPENIONS ON THIS (BUT TO BE PRACTICAL)

IT CAN BE A STUDY GUIDE FOR BEGINER SHOOTERS AND POSSIBLE OTHERS THAT MIGHT WANT TO SHOOT

 

[Rye Miles #13621]

4 minutes ago, SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 said:

I GUESS I HAVE VERRY HARD OPENIONS ON THIS (BUT TO BE PRACTICAL)

IT CAN BE A STUDY GUIDE FOR BEGINER SHOOTERS AND POSSIBLE OTHERS THAT MIGHT WANT TO SHOOT

 

WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT US???

[oak creek martin]

 I agree that the RO 1 RO 2 should be available online, I only see the coarse available here in Colorado and Wyoming at some of the annual and state shoots on the day before the shoot starts. I have not been able to take advantage of this option. 

[Shooting Bull]

You’re all singing my song. My full time job is as a Training Officer for the Department of Energy. A large portion of that is developing training to include web based training (WBT). 

 

What you gain with WBT is obviously a delivery method that’s available to a huge audience which may be spread over a wide geographic area. You also gain convenient access for those with a busy schedule. Someone who can’t spare eight hours on a Saturday might be able to dedicate an hour a night over eight nights. 

 

What you lose is interaction. Students can’t ask questions in real time. You lose the ability of other students being able to add input based on their experiences. You also lose the ability of the instructor to read non-verbal feedback. That’s an important part of instruction that a lot of folks don’t think about. Just because a student can pass a test doesn’t mean they truly understand the material. A good instructor can see that during a live class. 

 

I think RO-1 via WBT would be a great idea. I’m just listing some of the things that should be considered when making the decision and also if/when the course gets developed. 

[Charlie T Waite]

In the Dakotas over the past 5 years, I have tried to schedule ROI / ROII and refreshers so that as many as possible can attend.  I have also offered to travel to put on these classes making it easier for shooters to attend.  I have even offered one to one training for those with scheduling issues.  What I have seen:  I get more attendance in scheduled classes. Also, that of those that have preregistered for classes only about 80-90% have shown up.  Those that missed the classes had excuses from a game was on that they wanted to watch, they would just read the manuals and ask an MD if they had any questions or They'll take it at the next SATE / Regional / National match they attend if it is offered.  Some of these still have not even taken an ROI class   FYI - To date, no-one has taken me up on my offer for one to one training to get their RO certification or refresher. 

It has been stated to me that "I became an RO (way back when - in some cases more than 7 years) and don't see why I should take the class again because they talk about changes on the wire.  I would think it would have to be an interactive live video course like we do with the Judicial College because of the questions that come up.

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

Rey  ok you got me on the yelling  yelling thing the last intry was puter screw up being said i never understand this lingo used here . my fingers don't alwas hit the wright button. if i disagree you can call me anything possible i'm easy been around the horn i push one button an screw up trying to get the correct one back on will try to remember this typing junk

[Sgt. John Campbell, SASS #58165]

Folks,  all a club has to do to get an RO1 or RO2 Class scheduled, is to contact the SASS Office, and request to be put in contact with a local RO Instructor.  Many of us have no problem running classes for clubs in our local areas, all we need is for the clubs to contact us, and provide us with a place to hold the classes.

 

As an RO Instructor, I prefer to do classes live, rather than in an online setting.  In a live classroom, we get feedback from the students attending, can give more personal attention to students, and can clarify any questions or areas of confusion for the students.  I attend many online conferences and training sessions at my job, and in each of these, the interaction between the students and the instructor is never there.

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

I took days off work and attended RO 1&2. SASS instructor never turned in the info to the office or the office failed to record it either way no record of it. Was told since no records need to retake classes. I am not keen on taking two more days off of work and driving 400 miles to correct the mistake. 

[Big Rock, SASS #44055]

Set up a WebEx classroom and teach it live over internet. How I teach my company’s software to customers all over the world.

[SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402]

this happened experenced shooter not sertified in any   course states why should i waste my time i can R.O. and know it all

answer: yes but when it comes to votes you are not counted 

took the next course

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

I don't have a firm opinion on the tests being on line.

 

Hubby doesn't use the PC. However, when he needed to renew his driver license he had to take a test. So, I "pushed the keys" on the on-line sample tests. When they come with an explanation of the right answer when you get one wrong, they are a great learning tool. Even if they are not used for the formal class, they would be helpful for learning. After all, that is the goal.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Rye Miles #13621]

25 minutes ago, SOUTH-PACIFIC,SASS #59402 said:

Rey  ok you got me on the yelling  yelling thing the last intry was puter screw up being said i never understand this lingo used here . my fingers don't alwas hit the wright button. if i disagree you can call me anything possible i'm easy been around the horn i push one button an screw up trying to get the correct one back on will try to remember this typing junk

It's all good!!!

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

You can do both. On line and in person instructors. The quality of a class is often related to the quality of an instructor. If you produced the class in a video format you can control that aspect but you do lose the interaction. But it certainly seems that interaction does well on the wire

[McCandless]

My thoughts are you could try it out with RO1, see how it goes.  What you would need:

SASS Member volunteers to develop the platform

SASS Member Instructors to develop the on-line class, scripts, etc.

SASS Member volunteers for video, lighting, editing and post production.

SASS Member Instructors to be available for on-line "chat" to receive questions and explain answers.

you'll probably need several to cover rotations.

 

Ok... who's volunteering for what?

[Marauder SASS #13056]

22 hours ago, Shooting Bull said:

You’re all singing my song. My full time job is as a Training Officer for the Department of Energy. A large portion of that is developing training to include web based training (WBT). 

 

What you gain with WBT is obviously a delivery method that’s available to a huge audience which may be spread over a wide geographic area. You also gain convenient access for those with a busy schedule. Someone who can’t spare eight hours on a Saturday might be able to dedicate an hour a night over eight nights. 

 

What you lose is interaction. Students can’t ask questions in real time. You lose the ability of other students being able to add input based on their experiences. You also lose the ability of the instructor to read non-verbal feedback. That’s an important part of instruction that a lot of folks don’t think about. Just because a student can pass a test doesn’t mean they truly understand the material. A good instructor can see that during a live class. 

 

I think RO-1 via WBT would be a great idea. I’m just listing some of the things that should be considered when making the decision and also if/when the course gets developed. 

I too was involved in teaching  in addition to developing web-based training for a few years.

 

And I agree with Bull.  Especially RO I is an excellent candidate for web based training.  And adding a few video's would for examples would be very helpful to fill the gap from on-site training.

But for more advanced training, nothing beats show and tell, followed by practical practice sessions and personal discussions. 

You cannot replace the learning that can only be accomplished by actually "doing" the tasks.  I can show you and tell you how to install a door in a wall, but you will not truly learn it by merely watching.  You have to attempt it yourself.

 

It may be possible to set up interactive web based training but that is a huge commitment of time and money.  Who will be available on line, how will scheduling be handled, etc..  Maybe it would be possible, but . . .

 

As an alternative, What if we left RO2 as is, but changed it to RO3.

Then make an online version of RO2 that would include recordings from current RO2 training, including additional video's of folks as they complete the "practical exams/ practice demos" and question and answer sessions.  Not quite as good but other peoples quextions would cover a majority of what folks would generally ask.

[Nickel City Dude]

I know that some feel that RO2 needs some live in place training but most anyone that is interested in the RO’s training is probably already familiar with what goes on at a match and probably just telling or showing them in a video would be enough for most to understand the issue in question.

[Lead Monger]

I think the RO 1 should be on line and refresher courses for RO 1 and 2 should be on line as well. Enitial RO 2 certification may be better achieved in person.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Just my two cents

RO1 is a classroom oriented, "get to know the game", kind of thing so to become an online curriculum it is a prime candidate IMHO.

But RO2 is a practical class and as such needs physical scenarios and interaction with an instructor to see and learn how to deal with some of the subtleties of the game.

Even with that more "one on one" type of instruction there are more than a few who take literally years to put it together and become a skillful RO, and I just do not see that learning curve being shortened by having an impersonal online course available just so someone can say they are "RO2"

To put it bluntly look at all the WTC threads out there and see how many times there have been incorrect interpretations by some pretty experienced RO2's and occasionally even RO instructors, sometimes after our resident guru PWB has quoted chapter and verse from the manuals. How would having someone watch a video improve their ability to correctly identify, react and correctly make the call in a match scenario when those skills are better trained in a lab atmosphere hands on rather than on a monitor?

worth what you paid for it

 

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

From the RO I classes I have attended over the years, I am sure a well thought out on line version could be better than most. Most just end up mostly reading the handbook to the class.