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Marshal Dan Troop 70448

Seeing the future, and it doesn't look good

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Seeing todays youth, and watching on TV the marches going on here in the USA and yes, even overseas on taking our guns. Watching protest at colleges when speakers that don't agree with their way of thinking or the way they are being brainwashed by teachers and professors, riots break out and property destroyed in order to protest and keep speakers away.

These youth will be our leaders of tomorrow and will dictate our Freedoms, not only the 2nd Amendments, but also  our Freedom of Speech, which they already dictate who may or may not speak or say at their colleges. 

These youths will be our voters, and leaders in the future, and dictate our laws and changes in our amendments.

I can't imagine, getting together a march of pro 2nd Amendments, as do the anti gunners have and are getting recruits for their way of thinking.

We're losing, from what I see.  MT

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Think back to the period between 1960-spmething and the end of the Vietnam war. Remember the protests? Marches, silly speeches, Walter Cronkite somberly proclaiming that the war was lost after January 1968 when the TRUTH was, at that time, tet was a resounding defeat for the communists. Had the US exercised their military power properly, and had Johnson/McNamara not mismanaged the war and let the military do what they're good at (winning wars) things would have turned out a little bit differently.

 

We have some of those same anti-war protesters in government today. John Kerry ring a bell? Yeah, the very same guy who sat before Congress back then and spouted off lies and distortions supporting his reasons for losing that war eventually became to be Secretary of State. He was only one of not so many.

 

The youths you are seeing on TV are simply misguided fools, willing to trade liberty for perceived safety.

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I believe our best line of defense in this is to foster and support the youth that believe in the constitution and support our freedoms.  They are out there.  We have seen them.  They may be in hiding from today's overzealous "me first" crowd.  We need to make sure their voices are heard and not drowned out.  Reason and sanity are out there.  We need to continue supporting it.

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VN protests in the late 60's, makes these 'protests' look like a church meeting.

OLG

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I have a daughter a couple of years out of college and a daughter in college. My daughter in college has a boyfriend who is what I would call "somewhat" pro-gun but otherwise is generally left of center. I say "somewhat" because he enjoys shooting, owns firearms but sometimes falls for the anti's message because of his worldview as a whole. I've talked with them and others on the subject.

 

Take it for what it is worth, but what I have found is that talking to a crowd is nearly impossible. You get the crowd reaction, which is almost always emotional, with the brazenness that can only come from believing one believing a crowd is supporting them. This can even be true in smaller, more respectful groups. With five people arguing and throwing comments around, it is still incredibly difficult to discuss and explain matters at a more rational level. However, one on one, many in this age group can be quite intelligent, rational and capable of thoughtful discussion. They can even have their minds changed.

 

A warning, though. Bring your A Game, because it will be necessary. With the internet, social media and more, they are able to recognize when we are wrong, or when the facts don't support what we say. Their sources make sure of that. The funny thing is, the actual truth is something their sources don't give them. Cite John R. Lott, or any other reliable source (such as the CDC and others confirming Lott's research), and they tend to give blank stares. Explain that a .223 Remington is not all that powerful a round when compared to others in common use, and show them with tables, and they will be shocked. I firmly believe the facts are on our side overall, but we have to have the same tools at hand--the internet, for one--that they use every day.

The other thing is to not confuse or conflate the Second Amendment argument with others that they find important, and don't let them, either. Once you fall into the "they're a bunch of snowflakes" trap, and argue anything from supposed white privilege to LGBT rights or some other issue, you've lost both the advantage of our facts, and turned the discussion from a rational discussion of facts into a distinctly more emotional one. If you can't talk about the importance of the Second Amendment and owner's rights without getting red faced and calling names, you're better off not engaging at all.

Just my opinion on the matter, based on what has worked for me and what I have seen.

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Well said Doc

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1 hour ago, Calamity Kris said:

I believe our best line of defense in this is to foster and support the youth that believe in the constitution and support our freedoms.  They are out there.  We have seen them.  They may be in hiding from today's overzealous "me first" crowd.  We need to make sure their voices are heard and not drowned out.  Reason and sanity are out there.  We need to continue supporting it.

 

Bravo . . . . :)

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1 hour ago, Dubious Don #56333 said:

Think back to the period between 1960-spmething and the end of the Vietnam war. Remember the protests? Marches, silly speeches, Walter Cronkite somberly proclaiming that the war was lost after January 1968 when the TRUTH was, at that time, tet was a resounding defeat for the communists. Had the US exercised their military power properly, and had Johnson/McNamara not mismanaged the war and let the military do what they're good at (winning wars) things would have turned out a little bit differently.

 

We have some of those same anti-war protesters in government today. John Kerry ring a bell? Yeah, the very same guy who sat before Congress back then and spouted off lies and distortions supporting his reasons for losing that war eventually became to be Secretary of State. He was only one of not so many.

 

The youths you are seeing on TV are simply misguided fools, willing to trade liberty for perceived safety.

Bravo!!! Well said.

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10 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

Seeing todays youth, and watching on TV the marches going on here in the USA and yes, even overseas on taking our guns. Watching protest at colleges when speakers that don't agree with their way of thinking or the way they are being brainwashed by teachers and professors, riots break out and property destroyed in order to protest and keep speakers away.

These youth will be our leaders of tomorrow and will dictate our Freedoms, not only the 2nd Amendments, but also  our Freedom of Speech, which they already dictate who may or may not speak or say at their colleges. 

These youths will be our voters, and leaders in the future, and dictate our laws and changes in our amendments.

I can't imagine, getting together a march of pro 2nd Amendments, as do the anti gunners have and are getting recruits for their way of thinking.

We're losing, from what I see.  MT

 

What you are seeing, in part, is what the media wants you to see and that isn't necessarily an accurate picture of what the entire country is feeling.

 

I remain skeptical that anything of real significance will happen when it comes to new gun control laws.  Those in Congress that are in favor of gun control will try to get too much passed and will refuse to compromise with the pro-gun side.  The pro-gun side isn't likely to give up something without getting something positive in return.

 

As to the alleged bump stock ban, I suspect that in a month or so, the ATF will come back and say that under the current law, they have no authority to ban bump stocks.  By that time the media will have moved on to the next shiny new story.

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1.  I wonder who is financing this.  Those kids did not pool their lunch money to rent the busses that took them to Washington, D.C., or their expenses while there.

 

2.  Those kids have embraced violence.  The signs saying "Kill the NRA" are just one example.  If they don't like something, they think the proper action is to kill or destroy it.  There is no discussion or compromise in their world. 

 

3.  They play video games that keep score by the number of "kills" they make, and watch movies and television shows that promote killing and destroying property to get your way or to get vengeance for a wrong someone did.  They translate this into real life.

 

4.  The violence will not stop until they reject violence and violent  shows and games.  We, as parents and mentors, must guide them away from violence.

 

Just my opinions,

Duffield

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On March 23, Atty. Gen. Sessions proposed a rule outlawing bump stocks and confiscation/surrendering them without compensation.  This is more frightening than a march of children.  Congress makes laws, not bureaucrats.  Privately owned property taken by the government requires compensation to the owner.  If these two principles are not upheld then we are no longer a nation of laws.  If Cabinet members can create law and confiscate property without compensation then the Constitution means nothing.

 

I find it hard to defend bump stocks.  There is a Constitutional means for preventing their manufacture and sale, if that is what Congress decides.

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800,000 isn't a small number for just one city. Many of these will become tomorrows leaders coming from years of being manipulated and brain washed. Some may go one to be city leaders, state, or into Senators, and Representatives fro states that are slowly already turning. States that at one time were pro, are slowly losing their hold. Denying that changes won't come if we sit idle, won't help our children in the future.

I never thought I would see the day when praying as a Team on Friday night games, or in schools, or that crosses, nativity sets would be banned.  But it happened, not because of a Majority.

Those that want to ban guns, are now using our children. They are using a tragedy, and the children, and providing the means and cash to get the message out.

Words here won't help, rather supporting the 2nd Amendment through groups and organizations, like the NRA will. States, are already getting stricter and stricter on what's allowed to its citizens, and some cities are even stricter.  These protest will only give more credibility to those elected to pass more stricter limitations.  MT 

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SO hard not to comment "un-politically"...

 

Funding? Soros and his ilk.

 

Why this is happening? Useful Idiots. The election didn't go "their" way so "why let a crisis go to waste".

 

Support the NRA or any Pro Gun group with juice to have some influence on our so-called "leaders".

Write your politicians.

 

I wonder how many of these protesters would be there if they had to voice their opinions one on one. It's easy for the weak-minded to get caught up in group think. 

 

Here's a point of view I haven't heard. Something that I have said over the past couple of weeks to folks that gets their eyes fluttering (I work in a bastion of PC thinkers)

If people under  21 should not have access to firearms because they cannot be trusted then why are we allowing them to vote?

If people under 21 cannot be trusted then they shouldn't be made to fight wars on behalf of those that benefit from their actions in duty.

If these people under 21 cannot be trusted then why do we listen to them when they protest?

THIS is what politicians and the media need to hear and they need to clarify. They cannot have it both ways.

The PC crowd wants things their way so they should have it. Anyone under 21 should not have access to guns.

They should also not have access to voting booths or public areas for protests because the PC have said that they cannot be trusted.

 

 

 

 

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Every generation wants to change from the one before and fear change from the one after. Remember, our founding fathers were the progressives of their time. The Torries, loyal to the king, were the conservatives. And from that we have the greatest nation on earth. Every generation also claims the next is brainwashed. What’s different about this generation is that they are the most knowledgeable in the history of the world. Doc is right in that you must appeal to them with facts. Emotional arguments won’t sway them the same as in past generations. You can’t baffle them with BS like in the past. 

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We mist, in any discussion, get them to agree that they are talking about turning an enumerated and protected civil right into largess granted by the State.  Only then can there be any real discussion.

A few rulings by various courts:
 

 "Where rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or legislation which would abrogate them." Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491. 

"The claim and exercise of a constitutional right cannot be converted into a crime." Miller v. US, 230 F 486, at 489. 

“There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of this exercise of constitutional rights." Sherer v. Cullen, 481 F 946

 

"The very purpose of a Bill of Rights was to withdraw certain subjects from the vicissitudes of political controversy, to place them beyond the reach of majorities and officials and to establish them as legal principles to be applied by the courts. One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections."

: Robert H. Jackson, US Supreme Court Justice West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

If they are willing to toss out Miranda etc. and subject all of the Bill of Rights to the same treatment they afford the 2nd, then we can have a conversation.  Until then, 

 

 

Ни шагу назад!
 

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I keep seeing people say that the Kids are the problem.    Which isn't true.  The problem started with the parents and grandparents who think it's ok to raise the Kids this way.    

 

  " start the Kids with a semi auto because of the instant gratification "  or don't start a kid with a .410 it's to hard to hit with.

 They are easily distracted.   Well the only way they can be distracted is they have the option. 

 

that right there is a big part of the problem.   Teaching Kids not to respect the value of hard work. 

   Letting tvs and video games raise the children instead of being a parent.  Everybody gets mad at people blaming guns when they are not the problem.   Well same should be said for those blaming the kids. 

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12 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

You can’t baffle them with BS like in the past. 

No offense, but...They have already been baffled by BS or they wouldn’t be out protesting.

 

All

Have you heard one protest leader state that the system is broken and needs fixing? No. It’s about the guns and emotions. Has anyone pointed out that the school systems and their administrators over the past 30 years have created the mindset and the environment that causes people that are not balanced to go off their nuts and kill people? Has anyone heard anyone talk about group bullying, which is essentially what the group think is now? No.

Has anyone addressed the psychological aspects of this and addressed the lack of 

 

You know what...never mind.

 

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2 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

No offense, but...They have already been baffled by BS or they wouldn’t be out protesting.

 

I’m pretty sure folks said the same thing about the revolution when it was happening, or suffrage, or civil rights, or take your pic. It’s not always clear to everyone in the beginning. It’s certainly not clear to me, but I’m certainly not going to resort to calling anyone exercising their right to protest brainwashed anymore than I would call the same of someone exercising their 2nd amendment rights. 

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53 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

On March 23, Atty. Gen. Sessions proposed a rule outlawing bump stocks and confiscation/surrendering them without compensation.  This is more frightening than a march of children.  Congress makes laws, not bureaucrats.  Privately owned property taken by the government requires compensation to the owner.  If these two principles are not upheld then we are no longer a nation of laws.  If Cabinet members can create law and confiscate property without compensation then the Constitution means nothing.

 

I find it hard to defend bump stocks.  There is a Constitutional means for preventing their manufacture and sale, if that is what Congress decides.

 

The underlying question is does Sessions really believe what he said or is he just saying to appease the low information voter who wants to see that something is being done "right now".  I'm inclined to think it is the second.

 

Facts and the law do not matter to the gun control advocates, the only thing that matters to them is advancing their agenda through any means necessary. and right now it is using children to advance that agenda.

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2 minutes ago, Chantry said:

The underlying question is does Sessions really believe what he said or is he just saying to appease the low information voter who wants to see that something is being done "right now".  I'm inclined to think it is the second.

 

How pathetic to have an Attorney General who does not respect the Constitution.  But I guess he is not the first, is he...  :ph34r:

 

 

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7 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

How pathetic to have an Attorney General who does not respect the Constitution.  But I guess he is not the first, is he...  :ph34r:

 

 

 

I'm inclined to think he does respect the Constitution, but sadly, to say so in the current climate isn't wise from a political standpoint.  Sessions has to play to the low information voters in the middle and look like he is doing something.   These are the voters we are going to need this November to keep the House, so telling what they want to hear right now, while they're still upset, is a wise political choice even if makes the rest of us unhappy.   

 

It doesn't help that the press, on both sides, has stopped being objective and honest, they are more interested in the number of viewers and internet hits then telling the truth.

 

On edit:  I am going to pay more attention to the actual actions of the AG & President instead of what they are saying because very quietly, with very little attention being paid by the media, positive things are getting done, the most noticeable of which would be all the judges being appointed.

 

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1 hour ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I find it hard to defend bump stocks.

 

 

Why do they need to be "defended?"  Virtually every semi-auto can be bump fired.  Do we need to "defend" all semi-auto firearms?  We need to hammer, and hammer, and hammer on the idea that we can't punish every citizen for the actions of a tiny portion of 1%. Or, if we are going to go that route, then ALL civil rights must be treated the same way.  Ban cell phones, computers, and other devices to prevent sex-trafficking and child abuse.  Ban cell phones to prevent deaths from texting and driving.   

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2 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

 

Why do they need to be "defended?"  Virtually every semi-auto can be bump fired.  Do we need to "defend" all semi-auto firearms?  We need to hammer, and hammer, and hammer on the idea that we can't punish every citizen for the actions of a tiny portion of 1%. Or, if we are going to go that route, then ALL civil rights must be treated the same way.  Ban cell phones, computers, and other devices to prevent sex-trafficking and child abuse.  Ban cell phones to prevent deaths from texting and driving.   

While I agree with you 100%, I also don't think this is the "hill" on which we want to make a stand.  Besides as I stated above, much of what is being said by the AG & President is for public consumption and that both recognize that any actual ban, that would hold up in court, has to be done legislatively.

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1 hour ago, Duffield, SASS #23454 said:

1.  I wonder who is financing this.  Those kids did not pool their lunch money to rent the busses that took them to Washington, D.C., or their expenses while there.

 


One of my friends who lives in D.C. area said that Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots, loaned his personal jet to the cause.

 

49 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

Every generation wants to change from the one before and fear change from the one after. Remember, our founding fathers were the progressives of their time. The Torries, loyal to the king, were the conservatives. And from that we have the greatest nation on earth. Every generation also claims the next is brainwashed. What’s different about this generation is that they are the most knowledgeable in the history of the world. Doc is right in that you must appeal to them with facts. Emotional arguments won’t sway them the same as in past generations. You can’t baffle them with BS like in the past. 

 

I'm going to disagree with you on one point. Up to the point they felt the need to revolt, and even after, our founding fathers simply wanted the rights afforded to all other Englishmen, and expected to have them as a right of citizenship. The Tories, on the other hand, were of the mindset that the government, the king and parliament, should be obeyed, and their loyalty should lie with the government regardless. That sounds about exactly opposite, don't you think?

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2 minutes ago, DocWard said:


One of my friends who lives in D.C. area said that Robert Kraft, the owner of the New England Patriots, loaned his personal jet to the cause.

 

 

I'm going to disagree with you on one point. Up to the point they felt the need to revolt, and even after, our founding fathers simply wanted the rights afforded to all other Englishmen, and expected to have them as a right of citizenship. The Tories, on the other hand, were of the mindset that the government, the king and parliament, should be obeyed, and their loyalty should lie with the government regardless. That sounds about exactly opposite, don't you think?

Only if you are looking through the lens of today. The Conservative party of those days wanted to, well conserve the government of that time. Going against the king was a radical and progressive notion. 

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3 minutes ago, Chantry said:

While I agree with you 100%, I also don't think this is the "hill" on which we want to make a stand.  Besides as I stated above, much of what is being said by the AG & President is for public consumption and that both recognize that any actual ban, that would hold up in court, has to be done legislatively.

 

I will say that bump stocks should be a non-issue, they are a niche item usually for people with money and ammo to burn.  Unfortunately a certain political view has seized on them as an OHMYGAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!! issue, "Well if you don't think that these things that allow you to fire a " .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Thirty magazine clip in half a second.”" then OHMYGAWD!!!!!!!!!!!!! you must be in favor of mass murder!"    Kind of like using a pilot drill to start a hole.  What is the next "reasonable" and "common sense" ban that will come up? 

As I wrote above, Not One Step Back.

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5 hours ago, Marshal Dan Troop 70448 said:

I can't imagine, getting together a march of pro 2nd Amendments, as do the anti gunners have and are getting recruits for their way of thinking.

We're losing, from what I see.  MT

 

I think you're only seeing what they want you to see. People in the city and progressive liberals love to gather and form protest marches. Rural folks and conservatives don't. At the end of the day they make a lot of noise and disrupt traffic but public opinion remains the same. The only disconcerting thing about this is that now instead of arguing gun control with adults we're being forced to yell back at young kids, making us look like the bad guy.

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32 minutes ago, Subdeacon Joe said:

 

Why do they need to be "defended?

 

For the simple reason that if they aren’t “defended “ they will be outlawed.  And while bump stocks don’t interest me, I agree that we don’t want them outlawed.

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1 minute ago, Redwood Kid said:

Only if you are looking through the lens of today. The Conservative party of those days wanted to, well conserve the government of that time. Going against the king was a radical and progressive notion. 

 

I get what you're saying, but I still disagree, and I don't believe it is because I look through "the lens of today." Instead, because I look at motivations.

 

Yes, revolution is always a radical notion. It is "progressive" in the sense that it demands change, and fights for it. When you look at the motivation though, the fact that the founding fathers started out be saying, in essence, "hey, these are the rights we've always had, these are the rights Englishmen should have by right of birth," and their motives are very conservative in nature. The Tories turn out to be the statists of their time, letting the government abuse them as it will, motivated primarily by the security offered.

 

Remember, even after Lexington and Concord, the colonists were still trying to stay in the good graces of the crown, desperately wanting to stay a part of England. The Olive Branch Petition was sent to King George III months after the fighting started, doing all they could to avoid laying any criticism at George. If one looks at the Declaration of Independence, and at the justifications therein, it is clear the founders felt they were obligated to seek independence exactly because they were being maltreated and not considered Englishmen by the crown.

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My work is done here...nice job everyone...my choir practice is done for today:D 

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1 minute ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

My work is done here...nice job everyone...my choir practice is done for today:D 

 

 

Which is why we are all in the key of H#minor

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2 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

Every generation wants to change from the one before and fear change from the one after. Remember, our founding fathers were the progressives of their time. The Torries, loyal to the king, were the conservatives. And from that we have the greatest nation on earth. Every generation also claims the next is brainwashed. What’s different about this generation is that they are the most knowledgeable in the history of the world. Doc is right in that you must appeal to them with facts. Emotional arguments won’t sway them the same as in past generations. You can’t baffle them with BS like in the past. 

 

Their EVERY reaction and response is EMOTIONAL!!  They can't distinguish between the BS emotional responses they've been fed and the truth that's right there in front of them or the logic that they've been deprived of learning!!  They have been deprived of any knowledge of ACTUAL history which has had the politically correct revisions of history put in it's place. If they stand up and question their teachers, they are singled out for ridicule or are ostracized by the administration of their learning institution.  They are taught only what certain segments of liberal educational entities allow to be taught.  I KNOW!!  My wife came home on numerous occasions, year after year, complaining of what was left out of the curriculum and what had been substituted in some cases to satisfy the powers that be!!

 

They don't have the knowledge or background to filter out the "BS" and thus aren't just baffled by it. They are consumed by it!!!

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On a brighter note!!  Most of them will learn through hard knocks and bitter experience that many of their ideas are just so much cotton candy.

 

I'm paraphrasing Mark Twain here. "When I was 17 years old, my father was the most ignorant man I knew!!  By the time I turned 25, I was amazed at how much he had learned!!!"

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6 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

VN protests in the late 60's, makes these 'protests' look like a church meeting.

OLG

Yea but the VN protests were about the war period not our freedom and rights like these brainless kids! They're protesting for the gov't to take THEIR rights away! They don't have any idea of what they're talking about!:angry:

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I have no anger toward these children. Youngsters that age always have the answers to the world’s problems. That’s because they lack life experience and believe there are simple answers to complex problems. I can’t call them fools and idiots. I cannot denigrate their passion and I understand their fear and sorrow.

Channel 9 in Denver (not a conservative station) actually looked into the incidents of school shootings and concluded that, horrible as they are, they are also actually rare compared to the number of schools and millions of students in America. But the snowball of anti gun sentiment is rolling down hill. The raising of minimum age to purchase will do nothing. The Parkland shooter was one of the rare murderers who legally purchased a gun. The kids have no real solutions and are being spurred on by ignorance and the anti gun movement. I saw one with a sign that said ”Keep the NRA out of our schools”. Huh? The only presence the NRA has in schools is to teach firearms safety. I think you mean ”Keep killers out of our schools”. That’s an accomplishable goal. Simply thinking you can end gun violence by passing more laws is not.

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