Subdeacon Joe Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 A police sergeant calls a 5.56 "high powered."http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8108717-181/crimebeat-qa-what-exactly-is#comment-3817172208 Quote CrimeBeat: What exactly is a high-powered firearm? NICK RAHAIM THE PRESS DEMOCRAT | March 20, 2018, 7:13PM CrimeBeat Q&A is a weekly feature where reporters answer readers’ questions about local crimes and the law. What exactly is a high-powered firearm? There’s no legal definition so it depends on whom you ask. Hunting rifles generally are, handguns generally aren’t and assault weapons are generally argued about. To be clear, “high-powered” mostly refers to the bullets fired rather than the gun firing them. “It’s kind of open for interpretation,” said Santa Rosa Police Sgt. Robert Reynolds, who oversees all training at the department, including weapons. While the term commonly appears in the media, the sergeant avoids using the vague term to describe a firearm. Reynolds considers any .223-caliber and bigger, to be high-powered. The most common round used in AR-15s is .223-caliber. “An AR can reach out several hundred yards and do a lot of damage,” he said. Caliber is the diameter of a bullet measured in 100ths of an inch, so a .223-caliber bullet is .223 inches in diameter. Some firearms use the metric system where bullets are measured in millimeters, like the Santa Rosa police’s standard issue Glock 9mm firearm. Assault weapons, based on the 1994 federal ban that expired in 2004, aren’t defined by the caliber of the round they fire or the amount of propellant packed in the casing. Rather, they are categorized by their capacity to hold ammunition and physical features, not the bullets they fire. Assault weapons like Uzis, TEC-9s and MAC-10s fire pistol rounds that aren’t considered high-powered. Exactly what assault weapons are, and what they aren’t and what’s ambiguous about them, will be dealt with in a future CrimeBeat. Gun dealer Gabriel Vaughn, owner of Sportsman’s Arms in Petaluma, says AR-15s aren’t even high-powered. He compares the size of the round to .22 caliber, often used to teach beginners how to shoot because of the lack of kickback. “High-powered rifles are all the ones people don’t have a problem with,” Vaughn said. The rounds AR-15s fire are .223 caliber, while common deer-hunting rifles use the larger .30-06 and .308. The AR-15’s less popular cousin, the AR-10, fires the equivalent of a .308. But hunting rifles don’t often have detachable magazines that allow rapid fire and quick reloading, the characteristics that make assault weapons so controversial. Bottom line: Vaughn doesn’t believe the AR-15 is a high-powered weapon, but Reynolds does. While the .22-caliber bullet is similar in size to the .223-caliber, the shape of it and the amount of powder packed in the casing behind it, are vastly different, Reynolds said. “When you compare the two you see the results are much more devastating with the .223,” he said. The comments Quote Svent Karlson • 21 hours ago Well, it honestly depends on what the criteria you're trying to define. In competition definition ,for instance, high power rifles are generally service style rifles, f class rifles, hunting rifles (open class) etc, and use .223, 30-06, 308, 303 British, 7.62x39, 7.62x54r, etc. That's generally differentiated from rimfire or small bore. If you're talking about effective range, .223, 7.62x39, 5.7x288mm and other smaller rounds are considered intermediary rounds, or rather rounds whos effectiveness fall into the range between short range (pistol range) and long range in effectiveness (usually about out to 400yards) If you're talking about available kinetic energy, then you'd be looking at the larger cartridge sizes and larger diameter bullets. 6mm - 8mm, 30-50 cal etc. Generally dealing with higher pressures than a 223 and greater mass and much bigger than rimfire. Generally the difference between a 223 and a 22 rimfire is bigger cases, more powder and center fire primers vs rimfire primers, so the velocity is different and the range is greater. Also the shape and weight of the bullet would be different different between the two as well (round nose bullets vs a variety of shapes) the rimfire struggles beyond 100 yards and isn't aerodynamic by any means. Just a clarification too, the ar-10 is usually chambered in a 308, or the NATO equivalent (7.62x51 NATO) although many can be chambered in other larger rifle rounds depending on what the barrel is chambered in and usually accomdates larger length cartridges (308, 6.5mm creedmore, 338 federal, 338 lapua, 408 cheytac, etc.) Simlar to how, the ar-15 has a lot of different chambering for shorter cartridges (223/556, 224 valkyre, 7.62x39, 450 bushmaster, 6.5 grendel, 50 Beowulf, 458 socom,etc.), in general, its a bigger, heavier gun than the ar-15. Again, these would all be considered higher power than rimfire or small bore rifles In pistols, high power would be your magnum rounds (357mag, 44rem mag, 460 Rowland, 50ae, 500 s/w, 454 casull, etc ) and generally deal with more powder, greater velocities and pressures that would blow apart other less robust pistols. But again, it depends on what definition, you're using, and why. 11 •Reply•Share › Avatar Russ Lown Svent Karlson • 21 hours ago A very nice description! Lawmakers will never figure it out. 4 •Reply•Share › Avatar Svent Karlson Russ Lown • 14 hours ago yeah... well, most of the time they come up with definitions to suit a purpose that has no bearing on anything functionally speaking, so it ends up being about the purpose of the definition, which can be misleading. in the case of a small caliber rifle round like the 223, if you're calling it a high powered rifle, then it has more to do with trying to fool people into believing it's a more devastating round than it is IMHO, even though there's bigger and heavier, and faster rounds out there (300 win mag, 300 ultra, 338 lapua, 408 cheytac, 416 barrett, etc etc etc.) anyways, like I said though, it all depends on how you're trying to differentiate the difference between "regular power" and "high power", because that definition can vary depending on the criteria you use to define it, similar on the ever changing definition of an "assault weapon". 1 •Reply•Share › Avatar Russ Lown Svent Karlson • 12 hours ago I prefer the 7mm when hunting. The .44 pistol w/scope is my other fav for heavy timber hunting areas. .22LR is really for squirrels. Always wanted a .220 swift but couldn't justify it. 1 •Reply•Share › Avatar Sol Russ Lown • 9 hours ago "Always wanted a .220 swift but couldn't justify it." ? LOL •Reply•Share › Avatar David Haynes Sol • 33 minutes ago SOL: That's an old, old cartridge using a 6mm Lee case and 22 cal projectile. It's claim to fame is that it topped 4,000 fps. This article is full of generalities and opinion. Like asking your dog walker about brain surgery. Sol, you'll love this, the guy who actually coined the phrase "Assault Rifle" was Adolph Hitler. The German arms industry developed a stamped and welded smaller rifle using the 7.92X33 cartridge which wasn't as powerful as the full sized rifle. Hitler called it "Sturmgewehr" the STG43 became an Assault Rifle. So I guess that assault weapons are not "High Powered?" Kind of fitting that anti gun zealots follow Hitler's lead isn't it? •Reply•Share › Avatar Compton1032 Svent Karlson • 7 hours ago .17, High Powered just by sheer speed? •Reply•Share › Avatar Svent Karlson Compton1032 • 3 hours ago those usually fall under smallbore /rimfire in competition due to size and weight if you're talking about .17 hmr. which is twice the fps of a high velocity 22long. though I agree it's a zippy little sucker; that's where the "high powered rifle" definition begins to get a little sketchy, imo, if you're talking about speed of bullet travel, because that would open up the door to .17 hmr, .22 wmr, and the like, even though those are rimfire cartridges. so, that would bring us back to what exactly are the criteria for the definition being used, and why. •Reply•Share › Avatar Russ Lown • a day ago A silly article with absolutely no definition. 10 •Reply•Share › Avatar joe Right • 21 hours ago It's not an "assault" anything until someone takes the item and maliciously uses it. 8 •Reply•Share › Avatar Mr RW Trickler • 8 hours ago This is one of the most utterly stupid articles I've read in the DP for a while. They really need to hire people who actually do a little research themselves... 6 •Reply•Share › Avatar David Haynes Mr RW Trickler • 26 minutes ago This kind of offal deserves more than reading a few magazines or books, it take personal experience, demonstrated performance. Both of the so called experts are lacking. The last cop in Sonoma County that knew guns was the late great Prent Monson, he was the real deal and I miss shooting and hunting with him. •Reply•Share › Avatar Mother • a day ago Liberal Propaganda. 6 •Reply•Share › Avatar Big Dad • 6 hours ago Can anyone see where this is leading.......LEO say the Napa shooter used or had a "High Powered Rifle" and gave no other description....Is there a link between that and this article, for the Lefties to spin this out of control.... 2 •Reply•Share › Avatar Joe Lovell • a day ago So Sgt. Reynolds says that almost every center-fire rifle round is 'high power.." Care to define that in terms of muzzle energy and energy retained at 200 yards, 300 yards, and 500 yards? 2 •Edit•Reply•Share › Avatar Russ Lown Joe Lovell • a day ago pretty sure the definition should end up around rounds per minute. Most of the shootings aren't long range. I can walk into a gun store and pretty much tell which guns are anti-people weapons v. self protection and hunting. •Reply•Share › Avatar Joe Lovell Russ Lown • 16 minutes ago Do tell!!!! You can tell at a glance? What is the difference between "anti-people" and "self protection?" Are you saying that some guns are good for self protection but can't be used to kill a person? WOW! Tell us which of these are "anti-people" and which are OK for "self-protection and hunting." http://www.m1garand.com/wp/... http://img.photobucket.com/... https://www.sportsmansoutdo... https://media.midwayusa.com... https://www.remington.com/s... https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/... https://s7d2.scene7.com/is/... https://ii.cheaperthandirt.... https://i.ebayimg.com/image... https://www.sportsmansoutdo... •Edit•Reply•Share › Avatar Russ Lown Joe Lovell • 11 minutes ago thought that was clear in my post. rounds per minute. self protection, you're not really aiming much if its a clutch situation and it's dark; if you have a .223, you need to think about your neighbors as well. 9mm and 10 mm are better. Hunting guns don't look like something the Marines use. Seriously. Post all the URL's you want. Means nothing. Just purchased a 12 gauge over/under. Definitely a waterfowl gun, and not for home protection. I prefer the .380 for that. •Reply•Share › Avatar Sol Joe Lovell • 9 hours ago Memo To Gun Show Joe: Get a frigging life. •Reply•Share › Avatar BlueBear • 19 hours ago I do not know the full extent of Mr. Vaughn’s interview for this article, but if he said the .223 is comparable to the .22LR, as the article suggests he did, this is a completely irresponsible statement from an alleged expert. The .223 and the .22LR have nearly the same diameter but everything else about them is vastly different. BTW, if readers of this article think the concept of “What’s an Assault Rifle” is about as clear as mud, then the article has done an excellent job of stating the sate of affairs surrounding this topic. Politicians are free to claim anything they want is an assault weapon while the Second Amendment crowd can equally claim those very same things are not. 1 •Reply•Share › Avatar Mortie Rabb • an hour ago Give me a .45ACP handgun in stainless with pearl grips for close up work and a 30 06 for the distance. •Reply•Share › Avatar Mr RW Trickler • 7 hours ago Um, how old are the pictures at Sportman's? As the stock photo. Both show clear features that are illegal for sale in California. I guess the DP went with the scariest photos they could find to convince the masses that their agenda is true... •Reply•Share › Avatar Mee Too 2 Mr RW Trickler • 7 hours ago 2015, see the info under the photo. •Reply•Share › − Avatar Mr RW Trickler Mee Too 2 • 6 hours ago Thanks - Looks like the DP went to great lengths to present accurate information for the article as we might expect. Sigh. Why do I bother with this rag (well, except for the comments section - the articles are just part of the state organ)... 2 •Reply•Share › Avatar Mediator • 7 hours ago The republic won't collapse if they weren't available to the public. •Reply•Share › Avatar Joe Lovell Mediator • 25 minutes ago The flip side is that neither will it collapse if they are available to the public. •Edit•Reply•Share › Link to comment
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 13 hours ago, Subdeacon Joe said: A police sergeant calls a 5.56 "high powered."http://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8108717-181/crimebeat-qa-what-exactly-is#comment-3817172208 The comments "pretty sure the definition should end up around rounds per minute. Most of the shootings aren't long range. I can walk into a gun store and pretty much tell which guns are anti-people weapons v. self protection and hunting." - "Hunting guns don't look like something the Marines use. Seriously.".... GG ~ Link to comment
Blackwater 53393 Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 2 hours ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said: "pretty sure the definition should end up around rounds per minute. Most of the shootings aren't long range. I can walk into a gun store and pretty much tell which guns are anti-people weapons v. self protection and hunting." - "Hunting guns don't look like something the Marines use. Seriously.".... GG ~ Gunner!! It's more like.......... or maybe................. Link to comment
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said: Gunner!! It's more like.......... or maybe................. Yes....please add those too GG Link to comment
Subdeacon Joe Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 10 hours ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said: "pretty sure the definition should end up around rounds per minute. Most of the shootings aren't long range. I can walk into a gun store and pretty much tell which guns are anti-people weapons v. self protection and hunting." - "Hunting guns don't look like something the Marines use. Seriously.".... GG ~ Yep. I had a little back and forth with that idjit trying to get him to nail down what he meant. As usual, no luck. Link to comment
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