if you have it that bad why not quit

[Trigger Mike]

If you are being picked on and hate school bad enough to shoot the place up and a lot of these guys were 17, why not just quit school?  Then you don't have to worry about it, and if you want an education that badly you can get it at night or even during the day at a tech school or community college.  You can make it in life without the diploma.  You just have to work harder or smarter.  

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

There is no reason why not, but these are  just seriously disturbed individuals. We as a society need to come up with a way or ways to deal with them that protects society and does not deprive them or us of our constitutional rights. I don't know that that can be done. They want revenge on the individuals and society that they think have wronged them, whatever the cost.

 I don't know the answer, but I also do not trust the government to do the right thing

[J-BAR #18287]

Your question assumes that a mentally disturbed/batsh*t crazy person will somehow make a rational choice.  Probably not gonna happen.

 

Rational people must realize that crazy people will always get guns, and will always pose a threat.  Preventing armed crazy people from causing harm should be the goal, not trying to understand their "motivation".  I don't really care why the shooter did what he did.  I really care about how easily he was able to get a gun into the school.  That is the question that must be addressed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

You mean, just go get a job and then take care of himself?

Probably never occurred to him.

Best

CR

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Two words: social media. Kids these days live off of it and the desire to be socially accepted and get millions of "likes" is paramount. Conversely, when you're being bullied it's easy for people to spread hateful things about you on Facebook. It's not as easy as simply leaving public school because the bullies can follow you everywhere. That's one reason why teen suicides have gone way up.

[Wapaloosie73]

50 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Your question assumes that a mentally disturbed/batsh*t crazy person will somehow make a rational choice.  Probably not gonna happen.

 

Rational people must realize that crazy people will always get guns, and will always pose a threat.  Preventing armed crazy people from causing harm should be the goal, not trying to understand their "motivation".  I don't really care why the shooter did what he did.  I really care about how easily he was able to get a gun into the school.  That is the question that must be addressed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think a armed society is a polite society. If these gunmen know that they are swimming in a shark tank instead of a guppy tank? Things will change. This is why currently gun free zones are targets for these cowards, you’ll notice that they don’t try to go shoot up Camp Lejune......

[J-BAR #18287]

6 hours ago, Wapaloosie73 said:

 

I think a armed society is a polite society. If these gunmen know that they are swimming in a shark tank instead of a guppy tank? Things will change. This is why currently gun free zones are targets for these cowards, you’ll notice that they don’t try to go shoot up Camp Lejune......

 

I agree. Gun free zones don't work, and having armed security in all schools, whether they are LEOs or trained teachers is fine with me.  And that should deter many potential shooters.

 

My point is that even with those measures there will be the occasional person who is crazy enough to not be deterred, so there must be additional measures taken to prevent an undeterred armed person from getting inside the school; fences, gates, guards at restricted entry points, etc.  

 

The toughest problem will be to prevent the kind of situation that just occurred; a student or faculty member whom everyone knows belongs at the school goes off the deep end and sneaks a weapon in.  Inspecting everyone going into the school like TSA inspects airline passengers would simply take too much time every morning.  I don't know how to prevent that from happening again.   I don't know that it is even possible to prevent the kind of situation that happened in Maryland on Tuesday.  Home schooling or remote teaching by computer, eliminating school buildings altogether I guess.

[Clay Mosby]

Sixgun Sheridan has a valid point. While social media makes it easier to stay in touch with friends, follow hobbies or common interests such as sci-fi, dogs, cats, etc. it is also a sewer breeding every kind of evil imaginable. The media is no help either. 24/7 hyperbole, wild conjecture, shouting, yada yada. They make rock stars out of these animals with all the attention they get. 

 

Children can be absolutely vicious if they decide that they don't like someone, or that someone isn't  part of their clique or whatever they call them these days. You couple that with the lure of "fame" from having likes and TV cameras I'm not really surprised that a disturbed individual might decide that they want their own 15 minutes of fame and glory.

 

Sorry, rant over.

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

7 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Two words: social media. Kids these days live off of it and the desire to be socially accepted and get millions of "likes" is paramount. Conversely, when you're being bullied it's easy for people to spread hateful things about you on Facebook. It's not as easy as simply leaving public school because the bullies can follow you everywhere. That's one reason why teen suicides have gone way up.

Social media has become a Pandora’s Box that nobody could have anticipated.

[Yul Lose]

1 hour ago, Charlie Harley, #14153 said:

Social media has become a Pandora’s Box that nobody could have anticipated.

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner and it’s only going to get worse.

[Catlow4697]

The answer to school shootings.?

home schooling 

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

PLUS ONE to J BAR!!

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

I agree with much of the above. One thing that I have noticed in reading on the recent events is that in most cases the eventual shooter was well known to authorities as a troubled child or potential major issue well before the actual incident. Yet apparently no one would, could or (in some cases) should have done anything to mitigate the upcoming crisis.

<rant mode on>

There are many Constitutional safeguards in place to protect the rights and privacies of individuals in our society and there should be, but as a society we have almost completely abdicated our responsibilities to govern ourselves to unknown, distant "government authority". Couple that with the "government authority" having no duty to protect us individually (per Supreme Court decision), individuals involved in authority choosing their own rules to enforce (or not enforce), parental guidance (including corporal punishment) being effectively banned, moral teaching being a laughable outcast and family responsibility for each family members actions becoming a quaint old fashioned idea and clearly you could (and have) ended up with plenty of irresponsible and out of control individuals.

Do I think that we should automatically incarcerate, commit or execute everyone who is "different"? Of course not but I propose that those who make the decisions to allow those individuals to remain in our society own a share of the responsibility for their actions. If an authority figure wants to be in charge of things, someone once said "the buck stops here". If that is to hard a concept to grasp then "they" should not be allowed to hold those positions and if "they" cannot or will not intervene in a manner that protects society under our Constitutional laws then "they" should willingly accept some of the punishment for the actions of those whose problems have been given to their care. I would include on that list PARENTS, school personnel, psychiatrists, psychotherapy workers, judges who freely return offenders to the streets out of "sympathy" to their situation and probably many others who IMHO are playing fast and loose with the safety of many others.

<rant mode off>

 

Respectfully

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

1 hour ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

I agree with much of the above. One thing that I have noticed in reading on the recent events is that in most cases the eventual shooter was well known to authorities as a troubled child or potential major issue well before the actual incident. Yet apparently no one would, could or (in some cases) should have done anything to mitigate the upcoming crisis.

<rant mode on>

There are many Constitutional safeguards in place to protect the rights and privacies of individuals in our society and there should be, but as a society we have almost completely abdicated our responsibilities to govern ourselves to unknown, distant "government authority". Couple that with the "government authority" having no duty to protect us individually (per Supreme Court decision), individuals involved in authority choosing their own rules to enforce (or not enforce), parental guidance (including corporal punishment) being effectively banned, moral teaching being a laughable outcast and family responsibility for each family members actions becoming a quaint old fashioned idea and clearly you could (and have) ended up with plenty of irresponsible and out of control individuals.

Do I think that we should automatically incarcerate, commit or execute everyone who is "different"? Of course not but I propose that those who make the decisions to allow those individuals to remain in our society own a share of the responsibility for their actions. If an authority figure wants to be in charge of things, someone once said "the buck stops here". If that is to hard a concept to grasp then "they" should not be allowed to hold those positions and if "they" cannot or will not intervene in a manner that protects society under our Constitutional laws then "they" should willingly accept some of the punishment for the actions of those whose problems have been given to their care. I would include on that list PARENTS, school personnel, psychiatrists, psychotherapy workers, judges who freely return offenders to the streets out of "sympathy" to their situation and probably many others who IMHO are playing fast and loose with the safety of many others.

<rant mode off>

 

Respectfully

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

You're making sense. Stop it immediately.

[Eyesa Horg]

Part of the issue is that we have to defend these lunatics. The one they caught recently up here on a tip is charged with attempted murder and kept a whole journal of his research and plans to shoot up a school. He even bought the shotgun and ammo to do it with. The latest is his lawyer wanting all charges dropped as all he has done is exercise his 1st amend. rights and planning is not committing so therefore he has done nothing wrong. Then eventually he be back on the streets with everyone wondering where it went wrong and wanting more guns banned. Makes me nuts. JMHO

[The Shoer 27979]

I can tell most of you were never bullied growing up. For reasons I do not want to get into,  I was teased and bullied, all the way  up till high school. I fought all the time. By the time I got to high school, I didn't take crap from anyone and didn't care how big you were or if i'd get my butt kick I would still square  up with anyone. I had very few friends or what I would call friend growing up, and at almost 60 still have only a couple friends. It also bothers me when I get teased by family and friends but I understand it is not meant in a mean way. 

I understand times are different from when I grew up and now, I also know I don't have the answer, I just know what work for me.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

I was bullied a lot in school as well. It finally stopped one day when I actually stood up to two seniors who wanted to stuff me in a locker. When I told them to go to Hell they looked at each other with a "now what?" look on their faces. Word must have spread quickly because from that day on I was mostly left alone.

 

Up until that point, when some days were like sheer Hell, my salvation was the fact that I always had a loving home with two parents and two siblings to return to. I'd imagine some of these kids who go down the wrong path have nobody to look up to or even talk to. Too many parents these days couldn't care less what their kids are doing and never involve themselves in their daily lives.

[Smoky Pistols]

52 minutes ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

I was bullied a lot in school as well. It finally stopped one day when I actually stood up to two seniors who wanted to stuff me in a locker. When I told them to go to Hell they looked at each other with a "now what?" look on their faces. Word must have spread quickly because from that day on I was mostly left alone.

 

Up until that point, when some days were like sheer Hell, my salvation was the fact that I always had a loving home with two parents and two siblings to return to. I'd imagine some of these kids who go down the wrong path have nobody to look up to or even talk to. Too many parents these days couldn't care less what their kids are doing and never involve themselves in their daily lives.

 

I can identify with this post very easily. My bullies only stopped when I graduated school.   I can also see the side of the next post, and I'm glad that SS had a loving and caring family to fall back on and support him--I did not.  It is a shame that some kids go through school being bullied and beat, I would have hoped that the situation had improved since I was in school.  I can only imagine how horrible and unending the torment would have been with the addition of social media back then.  I also understand how someone can get that mad--but I'm not sure what would have to occur to actually cause them to take the actions they have taken.  I think a lot has to do with parents who have just set their kids aside and allowed them to be raised by television and computers.  They allow children to be exposed to programs ans games that not only desensitize them to violence, but at times glorify it. 

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

14 hours ago, Sixgun Sheridan said:

Two words: social media. Kids these days live off of it and the desire to be socially accepted and get millions of "likes" is paramount. Conversely, when you're being bullied it's easy for people to spread hateful things about you on Facebook. It's not as easy as simply leaving public school because the bullies can follow you everywhere. That's one reason why teen suicides have gone way up.

 

6 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Ding, ding, ding, we have a winner and it’s only going to get worse.

 

 

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

Why hasn't anyone thought of making the parents or guardians responsible for an offspring of theirs taking a gun to school?? I think if a few parents were made to suffer the penalty along with their kids things would change pretty fast. I was always told by my dad that he was responsible for me till I was 18, then I could do what I wanted. I had guns in the house ever since I could remember and we, my sisters and I were taught gun safety. My mom hated guns and my dad said every boy should grow up learning how to shoot and be safe with a gun. Being a skinny kid (wish I was skinny now) I was bullied a bit. What did it teach me? taught me how to fight. Never did I ever think of bring one of my guns to school and shooting someone. What changed? Parental responsibility changed.

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

A lot of people have simple solutions to the problem. More discipline. Better parenting. Less bullying. Etc.

But there are no simple solutions. 

What we have here is a perfect storm created by a number of factors, including those above. It is compounded by mental ilness that is unrecognized or untreated and eventually culminates in a tragedy, either suicide or an unspeakable act of lashing out as last resort.

I wish I had solutions, but it will take better educated and more experienced folks than me to figure it out. 

[Wapaloosie73]

11 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

I agree. Gun free zones don't work, and having armed security in all schools, whether they are LEOs or trained teachers is fine with me.  And that should deter many potential shooters.

 

My point is that even with those measures there will be the occasional person who is crazy enough to not be deterred, so there must be additional measures taken to prevent an undeterred armed person from getting inside the school; fences, gates, guards at restricted entry points, etc.  

 

The toughest problem will be to prevent the kind of situation that just occurred; a student or faculty member whom everyone knows belongs at the school goes off the deep end and sneaks a weapon in.  Inspecting everyone going into the school like TSA inspects airline passengers would simply take too much time every morning.  I don't know how to prevent that from happening again.   I don't know that it is even possible to prevent the kind of situation that happened in Maryland on Tuesday.  Home schooling or remote teaching by computer, eliminating school buildings altogether I guess.

 

I think in metro areas they have much of what your saying in place. In rural areas not at all. But I doubt they have the money anyhow.

 

I agree with you I just don’t know how easy it is to implement.

 

But allowing faculty with a CWP to carry on school grounds is gonna close the gap by a wide margin I figure.

[The Shoer 27979]

3 hours ago, Tascosa, SASS# 24838 said:

 I was bullied a bit. What did it teach me? taught me how to fight. Never did I ever think of bring one of my guns to school and shooting someone. What changed? Parental responsibility changed.

 

Agree with that statement  100%. The only thing it really taught me is how to fight and how to take an ass wiping  and keep on ticking

2 hours ago, Utah Bob #35998 said:

A lot of people have simple solutions to the problem. More discipline. Better parenting. Less bullying. Etc.

But there are no simple solutions. 

What we have here is a perfect storm created by a number of factors, including those above. It is compounded by mental ilness that is unrecognized or untreated and eventually culminates in a tragedy, either suicide or an unspeakable act of lashing out as last resort.

I wish I had solutions, but it will take better educated and more experienced folks than me to figure it out. 

I agree with you Bob, like everything in life, there is no one thing to fix it

[Sedalia Dave]

Katy resident claims KISD superintendent's bullying made him suicidal, educator laughs

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/latest-news/article206192094.html#storylink=cpy

 

Will be really interesting to see where this goes.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

I can certainly see how being bullied as a school age child can color your reactions to many things. But as to someone knowing who has been bullied and who has not.... really? It seems fairly universal that children can be very self centered, rude, inconsiderate and downright mean to other children. Thankfully most grow out of it.

My brother and I grew up in Commerce City, at the time an area with a very high percentage of Hispanics and almost no whites. In fact the two of us comprised the entire white child population of a 5 square block area. Just getting to the bus stop was a challenge, let alone being in school with predominately Hispanic teachers, Hispanic children and their Hispanic parents. Going to the park was simply out of the question unless my parents went as well.
We moved when I went into the 6th grade to a northern suburb of Denver as my father (who had been working 3 jobs) got a job for a public utility company. Almost all white there but still quite a few who looked down on those of us who did not have a lot of money. It wasn't until I was in the 8th grade before I brought a friend home to meet my parents. He is still my friend after 47 years, one of only a few that I truly call "friends".

In those days you stood up for yourself, the counselors helped you get a summer job, there were no "safe rooms", nobody brought guns to school except to show off to the teachers or go bird hunting after school and while I have lost count of how many fights I was in (and it really doesn't matter) I see no reason to carry those emotional scars around to prejudice my world view (though anything that upsets one of todays little darlings seems to require that they be treated with kid gloves for the remainder of their lives and that is now the standard for todays society).

Different times, totally different mindsets.

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid