final roc ruling. LOSS of SAFETY GLASSES MID-STAGE

[Major Crimes]

I reckon we are one post away from something like;

 

So I am a Gunfighter and I have fired 3 rds and my glasses are plucked off my face by a Kookaburra (insert agro American equivelant here) and he drops them 4.7cm (the rest of the world has gone metric, catch up you laggards) from my next strings target....................................................................

 

Wait, too late we are there

[Ramblin Gambler]

We need to know how a kookaburra tastes before we can tackle that ferinstance. 

[Major Crimes]

5 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

We need to know how a kookaburra tastes before we can tackle that ferinstance. 

Put Kooka and a rock in the pot.................................................. I think you know where this is headed

[Ramblin Gambler]

No I really don't.  At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't even agree on a meaning for 'rock' and 'pot'. 

 

Lemme see if google can translate from aussie to american. 

[Major Crimes]

33 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

No I really don't.  At this point I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't even agree on a meaning for 'rock' and 'pot'. 

 

Lemme see if google can translate from aussie to american. 

Good point, I should not assume.

You put the Kookaburra and a rock (Rock or stone is a natural substance, a solid aggregate of one or more minerals or mineraloids.) in the pot (a cooking vessel) and boil the water, When the rock is soft enough to push your fork (eating implement) into it, throw away the Kookaburra and eat (to consume) the rock.

That gives you an idea of just how bad a Kookaburra tastes

[Yul Lose]

4 minutes ago, Major Crimes said:

Good point, I should not assume.

You put the Kookaburra and a rock (Rock or stone is a natural substance, a solid aggregate of one or more minerals or mineraloids.) in the pot (a cooking vessel) and boil the water, When the rock is soft enough to push your fork (eating implement) into it, throw away the Kookaburra and eat (to consume) the rock.

That gives you an idea of just how bad a Kookaburra tastes

This is FUNNY keep it going. You Aussies do have a sense of humor, by golly.

[Major Crimes]

7 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

This is FUNNY keep it going. You Aussies do have a sense of humor, by golly.

No pressure to perform there.

Never thought I would get performance anxiety on the net like I do in the ................................................. (can't risk the wife seeing this)

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

(odd braying sound in the distance is a jackass ... me, laughing ...)

 

[Guncrazy Matt, SWS #364]

I remember one time as we usually require ear protection here in Sweden, and one asked if I'm deaf, do I need Ear protection? And then someone had an argue about safety glasses, and then he was told the glasses are mandatory, and he asked but what if I'm blind?

[Ramblin Gambler]

I remember taking my mom shooting once and she said she didn't need earplugs because she could just turn the hearing aids off and she'd be deaf as a cliche.  After the first salvo went downrange she was tapping me on the shoulder asking for those ear plugs.  Apparently it's the pressure that hurts not necessarily the noise? 

[Yusta B.]

On 4/17/2018 at 12:00 PM, Ramblin Gambler said:

I remember taking my mom shooting once and she said she didn't need earplugs because she could just turn the hearing aids off and she'd be deaf as a cliche.  After the first salvo went downrange she was tapping me on the shoulder asking for those ear plugs.  Apparently it's the pressure that hurts not necessarily the noise? 

You have bone conduction of sound waves directly to the auditory nerves. A loud noise can be heard without an eardrum. I have that condition.

[FIRE EATER SASS 74495]

Very interesting topic.  I wear a safety strap on my glasses.

[Cowboy Junky]

If you automatically got a reshoot I could see where glasses might have a pattern of falling off right in the middle of a BAD stage.........Honestly in almost 20 years of doing this I haven't seen any glasses fall off so "most" people are on top of that IMO. If not like any other SDQ hopefully they learn from it and get better equipment. Really it should never happen. 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

I'd like to see this DNF call changed. I posted the following on the TG forum.

 

"About DNFs, I'd like to see that designation replaced with DNS (did not start). The DNS call would only be made when a shooter did not shoot an entire stage. For whatever, reason, once a round goes down range and the shooter stops shooting (for good reason), the shooter should only be scored for unfired rounds (5 second penalty each) on a stage.  The recent example that led me to this opinion was the case of a shooter losing safety glasses. Say they broke, the shooter would be forced to not finish. Another potential instance is where a shooter slips, falls and sprains an ankle, bloodies a knee, ... The shooter may not be able to recoup for that stage; but may be able to finish the match. "

 

Someone who agreed wrote, "Allie, I see where you are going with this. I kind of agree. I wonder why there is a DNF penalty at all??  Give the shooter misses for the unfired rounds if they start the stage and quit for any reason before they complete the COF."

 

Someone who is not known for agreeing with me, wrote, "I agree with Allie Mo on the DNF subject. I personally don’t see what purpose it serves that a DNS/SDQ wouldn’t beyond over penalizing a shooter. If they start the stage and don’t finish for whatever reason, I feel that misses for any unfired rounds plus the procedural for any firearm not attempted to be fired is sufficient, more reasonable, and easier to apply. "

 

As I said, I posted this on the TG forum and as a result hope my proposal will be discussed further. I ended that post with the following comment. "I feel that the undue harshness of these rules or clarifications is unnecessary to the safety of our game."

 

Sincerely,

 

Allie Mo

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I guess the same argument could be said for someone who  could not shoot a stage at all (or didn't show up). Why throw an extra 30 seconds on the score just because they didn't shoot. Just penalize them for every shot not fired.

Maybe the scoring for Did Not Finish should be changed rather than making a special rule on top of our already bulging rule book.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Folks,

 

I'd really like to hear your opinion on my proposal.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

[Renegade Roper]

I think a DNF is way too harsh especially if you are almost finished with the stage when it happens.  

[Ramblin Gambler]

Well I agree that it oughta be DNS.  I always thought they were referring to the match when they wrote 'Did not Finish', and that matches up with the times I've personally seen DNF used.  It was always someone who went home early and DNF was written on all the stages that happened fter they left.  SASS says you own the stage once a round goes downrange, so why should it be any different here?

 

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

17 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

Well I agree that it oughta be DNS.  I always thought they were referring to the match when they wrote 'Did not Finish', and that matches up with the times I've personally seen DNF used.  It was always someone who went home early and DNF was written on all the stages that happened fter they left.  SASS says you own the stage once a round goes downrange, so why should it be any different here?

 

Quote

The score for a SDQ is the maximum allowed time for that stage, as per the above description for calculating maximum allowed time.  The score for a DNF (not finishing a stage) is the same as a Stage Disqualification penalty — the maximum allowed time for that stage.

SHB p.24

[Ramblin Gambler]

18 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

SHB p.24

 

I guess my point is that if you start the stage and get 10 hits before you have to stop for whatever reason, the penalty should be 14 misses added to your time instead of 24 misses (assuming a standard 10-10-4 stage) plus 30 seconds.  SDQ is a different situation as you've done something pretty bad at that point.  What I'm saying (and I think allie mo too) is that having an accident that prevents you from finishing a stage (but breaks no rules, safety or otherwise) is being treated the same as a major mess up and maybe it ought not be. 

 

Under the current rule, do you get a DNF if you forget to shoot the last gun?  Maybe I'm just confused on when DNF applies.  Up until this ruling I always thought it was only used when you didn't even attempt a stage.  I figured if you fired a shot you "owned the stage" and your score was time + misses + earned penalties. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Posted on p.1 (March 21):

 

Quote

 

Applying the RO2 rules regarding malfunctioning firearms and suspected squibs, if either of those occur while using the LAST firearm of the stage, the penalties for "unfired rounds" would be assessed.

If mid-stage with functional firearms remaining to complete the stage and the shooter decides to quit at that point, a DNF would apply because the shooter Did Not Finish.

 

 

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi PWB,

 

I believe that the problem some of us are having with DNFs is not that there is an existing rule that you are applying. It is that the existing rule is too harsh in some situations.

 

Say the shooter slips and breaks his or her ankle on the last or next to last stage. They would be unable to finish the match and get two DNFs which equal a MDQ. If they only received misses for unfired rounds on the next to last stage and my proposed DNS or the existing DNF for the last stage, they would not get a MDQ.

 

Another example is someone with prescription glasses. Most people have a spare in their trailer, RV or car. They could go get another pair to finish the match. I personally would borrow a non-prescription pair to finish the stage and if feasible get a pair of my bifocals and finish the remaining stages with them.

 

In cases like this, the decision was made for the shooter by circumstances beyond their control. Only giving an unfired round penalty for a stage that was started seems akin to a reasonable accommodation in some situations.

 

Please consider a change in the rule even it is just verbiage like the MD may differentiate between an unfired round penalty and DNF for whatever is deemed good cause or a reasonable accommodation. Or, is it acceptable to do this now. Maybe we do not need to change the rule when a shooter makes a conscious decision or choice to not shoot remaining guns when the shooter is not hurt or doesn't have broken glasses or any other event deemed good cause. 

 

I hope that what I am attempting to say is clearer from this post and that others will voice their opinions. Some of them may be able to express it better.

 

Regards,

 

Allie